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[Book Spoilers] EP302 Discussion

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1) Was anyone disappointed they didn't have the Dreadfort in the opening credits, given that a couple scenes from Episode 2 take place there? I wanted to see how they would render that terrible place. I liked the first glimpse of Ramsay Snow. He looks the part.

Aren't they try to keep Theon's location and fate secret? So showing Dreadfort would work to give that away.

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I'm a bit disappointed in Sophie Turner. I don't know whether it was her, or the direction she was given, or what. Dianna Rigg and Natalie Dormer I thought both did incredible jobs in that scene, but Sophie seemed wooden and seemed like she was reciting lines. I'm mainly talking about the line where she is begging them not to cancel the wedding. That should be absolute terror and panic.

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And Ghost is bonded to Jon, but he's not with him either

True but we know from the books that Ghost and Jon will converge again. We don't have the same knowledge with Rickon and Bran. Once the separation occurs, Summer is sticking with Bran.

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2) Ran quoted a critic who called one Catelyn's scenes in Episode 2 "character assassination". Was this referring to the scene where she admitted to praying for Jon Snow's death when he was a baby?

Yes. I assume Lacob's view is that since the scene opens with her indirectly indicating that she sees herself as having a responsibility to Jon as his mother, it casts her in a much worse light than in the novel, where she does not in fact have that responsibility. He may also be referring to the fact that she wonders if she's to blame for everything, perhaps knowing -- as a veteran TV critic -- that some TV viewers will accept that facile answer.

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What was up with Mormont telling Rast to take care of Sam? He knows that Grenn and Dolorous Edd are friends with Sam, why not have them watch Sam? You know....like they were already doing? I don't know why they didn't just have Rast die on the Fist. I mean, are they going to have Rast try and kill Sam, opposed to Chett? And if so, they could have done so without Mormont telling him to watch Sam. Are they trying to show that Mormont wants Sam dead, because if not Rast is the last one for the job, especially when you already have two established friends doing it willingly.

Just seemed weird and forced to me.

I think Rast is actually the one who is going to kill Mormont.

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3) What did you think of the treatment of homosexuality in the Joff-Margery scene (which was excellent, in my view)? Joff says he's considering punishing homosexuality by death, which seems a bit too on-the-nose and topical for me. On the other hand, GRRM never explicitly explores what the religious/moral position on homosexuality is in Westeros. Reading the books, I sort of get the idea that homosexuals are mocked but not that they are considered abominations before the gods, the way those who commit incest are. It's interesting to think about.

I think this gives the Tyrells more reason to pull off the PW.

As to the books, I think Westeros takes kind of a don't ask, don't tell policy.

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I'm a bit disappointed in Sophie Turner. I don't know whether it was her, or the direction she was given, or what. Dianna Rigg and Natalie Dormer I thought both did incredible jobs in that scene, but Sophie seemed wooden and seemed like she was reciting lines. I'm mainly talking about the line where she is begging them not to cancel the wedding. That should be absolute terror and panic.

My friend and I said the said thing at the same time! "What is up with her acting?" She's usually pretty good, but that was disappointing.

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Where is this nice Cat everyone is getting? I believe her moment of "weakness" was when she thought young Jon might die. She prayed for his life, but when his life was spared, she went back hating Ned's bastard. I think it's consistent, not everyone is completely evil or good in this story.

I agree. For goodness sake, she prayed for Jon to die and then freaked out because it looked like he might and instead prayed for him to live. It wasn't about Jon, it was about her not wanting to be seen (by her gods) as an evil person. She made a bargain for his life and then failed to keep it. Just setting up her tremendous inner conflict over the loss of her children. It's no so overt in the books, but it's there.

Otherwise, I thought it was a decent episode. Slow in spots, but some great character intros. Theon scenes are going to be very painful.

And those who pegged the Jaime comment about Renly & the IT as the best of the hour were right on. Lmao.

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Summer is bonded to Bran. He wouldn't send his own wolf with his brother when he's got his own.

Creating a CGI or model Direwolf for the rest of the scene is expensive, even as a background element-- cheaper to get off stage.

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I'm a bit disappointed in Sophie Turner. I don't know whether it was her, or the direction she was given, or what. Dianna Rigg and Natalie Dormer I thought both did incredible jobs in that scene, but Sophie seemed wooden and seemed like she was reciting lines. I'm mainly talking about the line where she is begging them not to cancel the wedding. That should be absolute terror and panic.

Well, truth be told, Sansa was trying to recite lines, but as Littlefinger said, she's a bad liar. I imagine she was directed to be wooden during certain sections of that scene on purpose. I thought she came alive when it came time for her to talk about what Joff did to her father.

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This episode was awesome. The only thing i really hated was tyrions bj...like seriously come on...how can D&D think of such an idea to add? Oh lets have tyrion get a BJ, that would be awesome and get us more viewers!

No...

What's wrong with it? In that situation, that's exactly what Shae would do. It would have been out of place if she didn't. I have no problem with these things in the show, as long as it makes sense, and it's in character, and doesn't take a bunch of precious time, and that took no time at all to show. In the books Tyrion and Shae are always having sex and stuff, and they didn't show them doing that at all really last season, so it was over due.

At least they held of the slurping sounds this time haha.

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Aren't they try to keep Theon's location and fate secret? So showing Dreadfort would work to give that away.

Hmmm... I think it's pretty clear where he is given that he he is strapped to a scary-looking device that looks EXACTLY like Roose Bolton's sigil, but perhaps I'm wrong

Edited by Khal Pono

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Well, truth be told, Sansa was trying to recite lines, but as Littlefinger said, she's a bad liar. I imagine she was directed to be wooden during certain sections of that scene on purpose. I thought she came alive when it came time for her to talk about what Joff did to her father.

I also took it like that. She's obviously trembling with fear so she has to come off as wooden since we all know she's a terrible liar. Loved the dynamic she showed once she broke down about her father.

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Well, truth be told, Sansa was trying to recite lines, but as Littlefinger said, she's a bad liar. I imagine she was directed to be wooden during certain sections of that scene on purpose. I thought she came alive when it came time for her to talk about what Joff did to her father.

Agree with this, I thought Sophie was perfect in that scene.

Edited by Mark Antony

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