[BOOK SPOILERS] Spot the book deviations

[StarkDragon]

If you look at what I said, my point was that she should have been able to do something other than have the sword knocked out of her hand immediately. I also was referring to the general toning down of her character over the past two seasons but this episode really took it to another level.

ETA: I also found it completely against character that she told Gendry and Hot Pie about Jaqen getting them out of Harrenhal. That really bothered me because Arya would have known about the need for secrecy. She doesn't just go blab everything that happens.

There's an important character difference between Thoros and Arya here, that foreshadows her future progress: Killing intent.

Thoros is a melee champion, and even if we said he never stepped up to war, it's likely he's killed a couple men in his melees, and likely quickly if he's a champion. Arya has killed how many who could face against her? Has practiced her speed and matching the killing intent against how many foes?

Still, it did wound my Arya pride when she was beat so easy, but I understood it and appreciated its implications.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

Lol, no.

They're just letting him run around.

D & D, I think mentioned that they're going a bit slower with Arya's sociopathic degeneration. I think they'll hold off until after the RW where she kind of breaks a little.

[A Winters Summer]

It no one else concerned that Jojen told Bran that the three eyed crow was him? That better not mean that they're leaving out a certain tree person.

I caught that too, I hope they don't leave that certain person out later in the series. Maybe the're combining the raven and the "winged wolf" together? This could still leave an introduction for BR; Jojen never actually said your The last greenseer.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Why did Jojen say he was just like Bran?

Green Dreamers and Green Seers are quite different. And it's Jojen who explains it Bran in the books, so why not right here when they had the chance.

WTF, Brienne didn't even hurt the Kingslayer. A little nick on the leg would have been nice. They're fncking swords; people get sliced and stabbed.

I thought Bran asked Jojen if he had "the sight" which he does and Bran does too which is what I'm guessing they're going to call "greendreams" for the show. Jojen doesn't claim to be a greenseer or a warg, he calls the three eyed crow "something deeper"

I believe the show will probably explain it more as Jojen tries to teach Bran how to control Summer while he's awake.

There's a long way before they get to where they're headed.

I wonder why Robb didn't receive word that Bran and Rickon were dead ... maybe the Boltons just didn't find out about the fake deaths.

Theon ordered the bodies taken down. Since their heads weren't on spikes the siege army had no idea they were killed. I suppose they're going to have to get the truth or fake truth out of Theon. Now what they tell Robb is going to be interesting because obviously he's not getting the truth about Winterfell at this point.

She wasn't a pussy, she tried to fight a grown man.

Thoros was a melee champion. Even book Arya would have gotten splatted if that fight happened. It's consistent with the logic of the books.

and the sword she carries is not a braavo blade like she was practicing to use. In the books she comments to the lady on Acorn Hill about how she "lost her needle" and her new one isn't as good.

If you look at what I said, my point was that she should have been able to do something other than have the sword knocked out of her hand immediately. I also was referring to the general toning down of her character over the past two seasons but this episode really took it to another level.

Where are you coming up with this idea from? From your imagination? Arya never fights anyone in the books in a situation like that, she starts to try to pick a fight with Gendry before the gold cloaks interrupted. Would she have poked holes in him? Or would gendry just simply knock needle out of her hand? There's no way to know.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think Thoros could do what he did. Thinking Arya was suppose to do more than she did is completely wrong. She's not even holding the sword correctly. She should be using two hands, but Syrio never taught her to use a longsword.

ETA: I also found it completely against character that she told Gendry and Hot Pie about Jaqen getting them out of Harrenhal. That really bothered me because Arya would have known about the need for secrecy. She doesn't just go blab everything that happens.

The books and the show they both know that she saved Jaqen, Biter and Rorge from the fire. In the show before they walked out the gate last season Arya clearly explains to Hot Pie and Gendry that Jaqen is helping them escape, or else why would they have came in the first place?

It seems more differentiated from the books for her to explain her deal that Jaqen gave her with the three deaths, but it was hilariously funny dialogue straight out of a message board on the internet.

"You could've named anyone Joffrey, Tywin Lannister."

"He helped us escape I don't see why you're complaining-"

"But you could've ended the war."

Also did you notice that Arya has revealed that her grandfather is Lord of Riverrun to Hot Pie. This is definitely not something she did in the books.

Ya this kinda troubled me. TOJ kept popping up several times in GoT and wasn't mentioned at all in the S1.

It popped up in Eddard's mind a couple times, he never spoke a word about it to anyone.

When Jojen said Howland cried and stuff I was like THEY'RE FINALLY GONNA TALK ABOUT IT! Then nothing... Now it's breaking my heart because I believe in the R+L = J theory and the fact that they haven't mentioned TOJ, which is the basis for the theory.

ToJ is one piece of evidence, I definitely wouldn't call it the basis for the theory.

ToJ popped up in Ned Stark's mind in the first book. There's no other mention of it anywhere else. Ned Stark is dead, Howland Reed was there we know this. Presumably the Tower of Joy might be where Howland saved Ned's life? It's not going to be thrown out there until it gets closer to the end of the series.

If Weiss and Benioff know about who sired Jon, and it is R+J=L, then why not throw a hint out there?

Weiss and Benioff know who Jon Snow's mother is but I don't think anyone knows what R+J=L is.

Robert+Joanna=Lollys

Ros+Jaqen H'ghar=Lysa

Renly+Jocelyn

and why throw a hint years before it will be revealed in a show? Are they not showing enough hints?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some other suttle differences?

You know nothing Ygritte

Jon Snow already knows he's a warg before he joined the wildlings and Ghost made it pretty clear to most of the wildlings that he was a warg as well. Didn't sixskins even tell Mance that he wanted to take Ghost from Jon?

The show is definately downgrading Jon Snow, Arya and Robb's warging powers even more than the tortoise speed they get them in the books. Great.

[UselessOpinion]

Thoros is a melee champion, and even if we said he never stepped up to war, it's likely he's killed a couple men in his melees, and likely quickly if he's a champion.

Thoros pulled a Stannis-the-Mannis (referring to Stannis during the Blackwater episode) at Pyke during the Greyjoy rebellion. He was the first to jump the walls and go to town on ironborn. He's a pretty gung-ho warrior.

[lannistergold]

I guess I'll start with the elephant in the room: pushing forward Theon's torture arc.

I expected it - why else would Ramsay have been cast at this point (and kept under wraps)? Still, it's going to put pressure on the writers to wrap up Theon's story as a whole earlier than they would have otherwise - maybe even before Martin would have. :dunno:

[cbus20122]

I'm not sure why people dislike the monologue from Cat about Jon Snow. It wasn't perfect, but they jumped that ship when they introduced Talisa anyway. Besides, it was pretty on-character for the most part.

Am I the only one dissapointed with how they handled the Jaime & Brienne's fight? Jaime was notably outclassing Brienne at the start of the fight, but lost mostly due to handcuffs (as well as imprisonment) and losing out the battle of stamina. Also is Vargo Hoat being written out of the season? I may have missed that, but I'm not sure if it's something that's already been decided.

[StarkDragon]

Thoros pulled a Stannis-the-Mannis (referring to Stannis during the Blackwater episode) at Pyke during the Greyjoy rebellion. He was the first to jump the walls and go to town on ironborn. He's a pretty gung-ho warrior.

Awesome, thanks for telling me that :laugh:

I guess I'll start with the elephant in the room: pushing forward Theon's torture arc.

I expected it - why else would Ramsay have been cast at this point (and kept under wraps)? Still, it's going to put pressure on the writers to wrap up Theon's story as a whole earlier than they would have otherwise - maybe even before Martin would have. :dunno:

Or... they close the doors on him after his first 'escape' turns on him, cruelly turning this into a mere teaser until it meets up with the story. I'd like this :devil:

[Pinkie Baelish]

I guess I'll start with the elephant in the room: pushing forward Theon's torture arc.

I expected it - why else would Ramsay have been cast at this point (and kept under wraps)? Still, it's going to put pressure on the writers to wrap up Theon's story as a whole earlier than they would have otherwise - maybe even before Martin would have. :dunno:

I'm expecting they only reveal right at the very end who Ramsay is, and he takes Theon back to the Dreadfort after another failed escape attempt. In season 4, they should keep Theon's appearances to a bare minimum, to show his rapidly deteriorating mental state. Or it might be even more effective to leave him out completely. That way, if they do include the rat-eating bit in season 5, the viewers will be completely shocked and disgusted at what he's been reduced to.

[StarkDragon]

Am I the only one dissapointed with how they handled the Jaime & Brienne's fight? Jaime was notably outclassing Brienne at the start of the fight, but lost mostly due to handcuffs (as well as imprisonment) and losing out the battle of stamina. Also is Vargo Hoat being written out of the season? I may have missed that, but I'm not sure if it's something that's already been decided.

I loved the Jaime and Brienne fight. He did outclass Brienne at the start in the book, to my recollection, but he'd been in prison, and that suffered his strength and dulled his hair. It makes sense he'd lose strength and Brienne would destroy him.

And yeth, Vargo Hoath ith gone. I'll mith hith charactherithic thongue, buth Jaime ith enough comedy for me.

Good job Show Makers, you are actually making me like Jaime, something the book couldn't do!

[JMJ]

I'm expecting they only reveal right at the very end who Ramsay is, and he takes Theon back to the Dreadfort after another failed escape attempt. In season 4, they should keep Theon's appearances to a bare minimum, to show his rapidly deteriorating mental state. Or it might be even more effective to leave him out completely. That way, if they do include the rat-eating bit in season 5, the viewers will be completely shocked and disgusted at what he's been reduced to.

There's been no mention of "Reek" so far, so it seems like they will likely change that storyline significantly. Since there's no mention of the original Reek nor a reveal of Ramsay disguised as Reek, I'm guessing (a) Ramsay's reveal will be different than the books, and (B) Theon's eventual assumption of the Reek identity will be different from the books too.

[Maester Ruin]

WHY was Thoros singing the rains of castamere? i dont get it, it will most likely confuse people who havent read the books about the meaning of the song.

[Lady Arya's Song]

Where is Dalla and Val in this series? Are they going to skip the fact that Mance has a pregnant wife who was about to give birth? That has implications further down the road for Jon Snow when he is LC of Night's Guard. Baby switching and what not. Since we have been told the producers know the end game story..it this hinting to us that Mance and his heir (baby Mance), Val really have no relavance to the bigger story?

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

Where is Dalla and Val in this series? Are they going to skip the fact that Mance has a pregnant wife who was about to give birth? That has implications further down the road for Jon Snow when he is LC of Night's Guard. Baby switching and what not. Since we have been told the producers know the end game story..it this hinting to us that Mance and his heir (baby Mance), Val really have no relavance to the bigger story?

maybe they will show them when it becomes more important? I geuss you could combine the two characters.

[Maester Ruin]

you could argue that Mance might not trust Jon enough yet to reveal that he has a wife who is pregnant with his first son yet. If he still thinks Jon might be an infiltrator, that is definitely information he would not want the Nights Watch to get a hold of.

[Maizel]

Theon got a field day compared to the books.

Hopefully this is tjust the beginning.

[Tenlaar]

It's definitely got to be just the beginning. It's the first time Ramsay set it up for Theon to be able to attempt an escape so he can punish him for attempting to escape.

[Ser Drizztos]

no bloody mummers, to state the obvious.

No Bloody Mummers last season either. It seems like they will be left out entirely, and the events they were involved in only shown indirectly.

[Reek Da Villain]

I didn't like that Thoros of Myr seemed so...Westerosi.

I mean, he's a Red Priest from Myr. He should be a bit more foreign. TV Thoros is Bronn pretty much.

[Ser M]

i didn't like the Jamie vs. Brienne fight, she beat him way too easily. And I thought the Jojen/Meera introduction was kinda corny.