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teemo

[BOOK SPOILERS] Spot the book deviations

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Well this thread say book spoilers, so I'm not using the spoilers tag, but sorry if this is a mistake.

I was checking some parts of the book and one thing called my attention in one of the scenes that I love in the episode, I mean the QoT and Sansa's scene. I didn't recall that in the book it's much larger but one thing called my attention is that they started to make plans for Sansa's wedding with Willas, what is important since this will trigger her wedding with Tyrion. But again, maybe they will bring this in a future episode.

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-Cat feelings/thoughts about Jon

-The way Arya meets the BWB and the Hound (that's okay)

-Shae warning Sansa about PB and telling it to Tyrion, and she being jealous of Tyrion's other women

-Joffrey and Margaery getting along

-How Theon getting tortured

-Late Reeds introduction (that's okay, too)

yeah...all of these all stand out for me. My husband tells me to stop comparing the books to the show and expecting things from the show. I guess the are parallel entities side by side rather than one and the same. It's HARD!! I love the cast of the show. I feel the characters come truly alive from the books, but when they do things and say things I feel are so out of character or DON'T do the things we know they do, it's confusing for me because I love both the show and the books (books win of course).

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Well this thread say book spoilers, so I'm not using the spoilers tag, but sorry if this is a mistake.

I was checking some parts of the book and one thing called my attention in one of the scenes that I love in the episode, I mean the QoT and Sansa's scene. I didn't recall that in the book it's much larger but one thing called my attention is that they started to make plans for Sansa's wedding with Willas, what is important since this will trigger her wedding with Tyrion. But again, maybe they will bring this in a future episode.

I'm betting they don't even mention Willas. The Queen of Thorns already told her about WIllas by now. Tywin was going to offer her to Tyrion with or without her betrothal to Willas Tyrell.

I would LOVE to read MORE about Tyrell in ASOIAF anyway. :D

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I think this forum's attitude to the TV series is summed up by the fact that some people though Rickon was running off to Skagos.

C'mon he was clearly just going for a short run!

I reckon Rickon and Yosha (I forgot her name oops) will depart from Bran, Hodor and the Reeds at Queenscrown this series which will be near the series finale.

LOL Her name is Osha. Similar to Theons sister's name "Asha" in the lit series, but changed to iyara for the show series because the 2 names were so similar apparently.

GRRM has announced a 4th season is approved. I have NO doubt there will be a 5th season. HBO's M.O. is 6-7 seasons on favorite successful series so, we have a few seasons left before we arrive at the series finale I think. but then again... 5 might be the final number for HBO GoT.

:)

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Arya was a lot more sensible by the time she met the brotherhood in the book. I didn't like how they handled that scene. Liked the re-introduction of The Hound though.

Hey everyone was telling me that her not killing the guard at harrenhall was no big deal or losing the Weasel Soup incident was no big deal cause this season they would have Arya being the badass.

Shakes my head.

This is the future faceless man???????????

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lol, I also thought Arya acted a little silly in that scene as well. It's been awhile since my last re-read, but I distinctly remember Arya seriously realizing she was out of her league when she saw Anguy shoot an arrow. She was like, "oh shit." Drawing a sword like that was goofy. Not only that, but when Arya draws a sword she means business...here she kind of wimped out...

That is the problem as I see it with Show Arya, there has been absolutely NO character development of her since Syrio died, er left the scene.

Ok NO development may be a bit strong, but there has been negligible change to her. Her whole arc through the 2nd and 3rd books was her development as a future FM. She became different people, took on different names, did humble tasks, killed in cold blood, yes she made some mistakes (and gendry and hotpie busting on her on her choices was good in it shows some sort of reflection on Arya's part-thought it is a reflection on G and Hotpies reflection on her-I should rewatch to see how she responded, defensive or contemplative). Again there is no hint of where she is going while all her travels should be developing her in that direction.

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So I just rewatched the scene, Gendry was explaining her mistakes and she is defensive, tells him she is not listening, tells him to shut up and then immediately changes the subject. So she did not even reflect on her mistake. Something that she should be doing,

oh well, I guess I see things differently

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That is the problem as I see it with Show Arya, there has been absolutely NO character development of her since Syrio died, er left the scene.

Ok NO development may be a bit strong, but there has been negligible change to her. Her whole arc through the 2nd and 3rd books was her development as a future FM. She became different people, took on different names, did humble tasks, killed in cold blood, yes she made some mistakes (and gendry and hotpie busting on her on her choices was good in it shows some sort of reflection on Arya's part-thought it is a reflection on G and Hotpies reflection on her-I should rewatch to see how she responded, defensive or contemplative). Again there is no hint of where she is going while all her travels should be developing her in that direction.

Well she tells Ja'qen she wants to follow him and learn to become a FM. But then says she has to find her family first. Once she "finds" them and has nowhere else to go, I think it's safe to assume her desire for vengeance and no longer being useless will lead her back to Ja'qen, or Bravos in general. We saw her assume the identity of Arry, but no one else since, but there is time for that yet once she breaks off from the BWB.

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Hey everyone was telling me that her not killing the guard at harrenhall was no big deal or losing the Weasel Soup incident was no big deal cause this season they would have Arya being the badass.

Shakes my head.

This is the future faceless man???????????

She's not a FM yet! Maybe this episode highlighted a part of her personality that could be her downfall as far as the FM are concerned.

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I'm betting they don't even mention Willas. The Queen of Thorns already told her about WIllas by now. Tywin was going to offer her to Tyrion with or without her betrothal to Willas Tyrell.

I would LOVE to read MORE about Tyrell in ASOIAF anyway. :D

Yes, you're right, but it would be cool if they included it ;)

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That is the problem as I see it with Show Arya, there has been absolutely NO character development of her since Syrio died, er left the scene.

Ok NO development may be a bit strong, but there has been negligible change to her. Her whole arc through the 2nd and 3rd books was her development as a future FM. She became different people, took on different names, did humble tasks, killed in cold blood, yes she made some mistakes (and gendry and hotpie busting on her on her choices was good in it shows some sort of reflection on Arya's part-thought it is a reflection on G and Hotpies reflection on her-I should rewatch to see how she responded, defensive or contemplative). Again there is no hint of where she is going while all her travels should be developing her in that direction.

Well, that's not quite true. Last season, the whole Tywin/Arya interaction (which of course was not in the books) was I thought great for her character development, in that she learned some things from Tywin, we learned about her knowledge of Westeros history, etc. However, I felt this year her Thoros interaction was almost a step back, if not at least stagnation in her character progression.

OTOH, I am now concerned how they will go from Arya who blunderingly tried to challenge Thoros to a sword fight to Arya with the FM. They've basically made it so that the transition has to be more abrupt and quicker.

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There's too many to name, it's like they only have a vague idea of what's happening in the books and have completely stopped trying to be faithful to them. Almost every scene is an invention, almost every scene that is kept is changed drastically and often without a reason. For instance it would've been just as easy to have Brienne and Jaime be evenly matched, there's no budget or story purpose that warrants such a change. It might seem only like a minor thing to some (even though it's important that they're evenly matched for their relationship), but to me changing stuff even when you're not restricted by budget or other constraints is simply an indication of how seriously they take the book material, which is, not at all.

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There's too many to name, it's like they only have a vague idea of what's happening in the books and have completely stopped trying to be faithful to them. Almost every scene is an invention, almost every scene that is kept is changed drastically and often without a reason. For instance it would've been just as easy to have Brienne and Jaime be evenly matched, there's no budget or story purpose that warrants such a change. It might seem only like a minor thing to some (even though it's important that they're evenly matched for their relationship), but to me changing stuff even when you're not restricted by budget or other constraints is simply an indication of how seriously they take the book material, which is, not at all.

They were evenly matched until Jaime runs out of gas from being held prisoner for months, having his hands shackled, and generally being in not tip top shape. He even starts to facetiously complain about it, wearing the same boots and getting corns before stealing the sword. Sometimes things are changed because they make sense. The fact that Jaime was even able to compete with someone who could defeat Loras Tyrell while shackled and physically weak for any amount of time is impressive. The fact that he almost beats her visually will make it seem like Brienne is a pretty bad swordsman, especially given that we don't have Jaime's internal monologue to tell us how surprised he is at her strength and reactions/ability.

Jaime is my favorite book character. I wasn't displeased, it actually reminds me of how reckless and dangerous he is that he thought he might actually win. From Jaime's own boasting we know there are a couple of people in Westeros that would stand a chance against him in an even fight.

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There's too many to name, it's like they only have a vague idea of what's happening in the books and have completely stopped trying to be faithful to them. Almost every scene is an invention, almost every scene that is kept is changed drastically and often without a reason. For instance it would've been just as easy to have Brienne and Jaime be evenly matched, there's no budget or story purpose that warrants such a change. It might seem only like a minor thing to some (even though it's important that they're evenly matched for their relationship), but to me changing stuff even when you're not restricted by budget or other constraints is simply an indication of how seriously they take the book material, which is, not at all.

I will refer you to this amazing post.

I guess I'm amused, for lack of a better word, by this type of discussion.

The only practical purpose of spotting or discussing the "deviations" would be purely instructional -- helping student/aspiring screenwriters better understand the adaptation process. What other purpose is there for comparing two very different art forms, prose fiction and long-form TV drama?

The books serve as source material for the TV show and that's where it ends. Review the books, review the show, but if you start criticizing the TV show as a direct representation of the books, you don't understand what it means to adapt material for film or television. I would even use the term "translation" loosely, as it doesn't really define the process of adapting material from another art form.

I suppose book fans are entitled to "missing" their favorite moments or scenes, but that isn't really relevant to a honest critique of the show's writing on its own merits. More specifically, saying you didn't like how something was changed or left out doesn't address the question of:Did the change or omission from the book work in the TV drama format? -- meaning did non-readers miss something or get less enjoyment from the overall production because of the changes/omissions? It would be hard to make that case in the negative for any specific change or omission given the increasing popularity of the show and yearly increases in the show's ratings. Not that popularity always equals quality (Britney Spears), but the subscription nature of the HBO business model does indicate that that mostly adult word of mouth about the show after two seasons has been extremely positive and makes people want to tune in via subscription. In the case of GoT, I think we can fairly attribute that to a well written, well produced show.

Lastly, if you say you "missed" something from the book, keep in mind that character or scene only really exists in your head, as no two readers experience a work of prose fiction in their head in an identical manner. That is one of the major differences between the two mediums, reading vs. viewing. One is a personal experience existing in the mind's eye, they other a shared concrete experience of characters and events.

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I thought Jojen was going to mention the TOJ when Howland Reed's name came up fighting with Ned in Robert's rebellion.

Its Bran who will figure it out. Jojen has always said in the book Bran is more powerful than him. Bran and Jon were always close. He will dream the TOJ and it will lead him back to Winterfell to look in Lyanna's tomb.

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Well this thread say book spoilers, so I'm not using the spoilers tag, but sorry if this is a mistake.

I was checking some parts of the book and one thing called my attention in one of the scenes that I love in the episode, I mean the QoT and Sansa's scene. I didn't recall that in the book it's much larger but one thing called my attention is that they started to make plans for Sansa's wedding with Willas, what is important since this will trigger her wedding with Tyrion. But again, maybe they will bring this in a future episode.

I reckon they're going to replace Willas with Loras?

He's not Kingsguard yet so maybe what might happen is the tyrells plan to wed them, the Lannisters find out and so marry Sansa to Tyrion and insist Loras takes the white. But who knows? They've bothered though to set up Sansa fancying Loras which would make her wedding to Tyrion even more dramatic and disappointing.

A change (addition) that I loved was Joffrey planning to make Renly's (and rather awkwardly Loras'...) peversions... punishable by death - forces the Tyrells' hand even more in respect to the purple wedding. I thought that was ingenious

Also loved the Brienne and Jaime chat about renly and how he doesn't blame her for her ridiculous crush or Renly for loving a man as you don't get to choose who you love. You could see his anguish over Cersei there!

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I reckon they're going to replace Willas with Loras?

He's not Kingsguard yet so maybe what might happen is the tyrells plan to wed them, the Lannisters find out and so marry Sansa to Tyrion and insist Loras takes the white. But who knows? They've bothered though to set up Sansa fancying Loras which would make her wedding to Tyrion even more dramatic and disappointing.

A change (addition) that I loved was Joffrey planning to make Renly's (and rather awkwardly Loras'...) peversions... punishable by death - forces the Tyrells' hand even more in respect to the purple wedding. I thought that was ingenious

My idea was that Joffrey will indeed create a law these `perversions` are punishable by death, and that will make Tyrells unite Loras with Sansa. Remember Margaery`s look when he said he had considered it. She was incredibly smart in that scene with her going under his skin and praising him - you are the King (also reminded me of Anne Boleyn in Tudors). But, this change I actually like and I think it`s more catching for TV. You have a gay brother, tossed girl and sister who wants to save brother and please the King. I think this works better for TV, than Willas/Sansa marriage. At least, it has more dramatic effect

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Robb didn't receive word that Bran and Rickon were dead. Meh. But. That storyline is... I'm glad Karstark pointed out his victories ended with the foreign b****.

I caught it on demand today, as yesterday I was on top of a mountain. I fast forwarded through the Talisa/Cat scene as soon as I realised this was where she was going to commit character suicide. Hated the beginning. Ugh.

No Tyrell proposal or The Bear and the Maiden Fair song, although I generally liked that scene.

Mance isn't a bard. He's just not fun. Where the hell is Jon's wolf that he can warg?

Loved the Reed intro and scenes- not exactly like the book, but the characters felt right to me.

The Margery/Joff scene was obviously invented but it worked for me.

The BWB capture was a little different but it worked as did the Hound's reveal.

I don't know what they were doing to Theon, but they weren't cutting off his skin, I'd like to see some flaying, but I tend to like where they are going with his character, if Allen can pull it off we will see the transformation into ... I forget- it rhymes with freak? Reek.

I could have used some sappireth... But. I'll live.

All in all I found it a much better an cohesive adaptation than the 1st episode. BUT - I DID FF THROUGH CATELYN'S MONOLOGUE WHICH BASED ON OTHER REPORTS I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOMACH.

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