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zaphodbrx

[Book spoilers]Locke

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So, this episode we had our first peek at 'Locke', a TV character who is supposed to be playing the role of Vargo Hoat.

However if you think about it, this isn't quite right.

Vargo Hoat and co. were a mercenary band who switched sides and had no loyalty to anyone, they were also criminal and depraved.

Locke is Bolton's own bannerman. Why would he cut off Jamie's hand?

Roose can't do it. He needs the alliance with Tywin. Atleast Book Roose wouldn't do such a thing.

I can't see Robb not finding out about Roose sending Jamie free ( hand cut off or otherwise )...

I am really curious to see how this will all work out. Do you think they will manage to find plausible explanations and motivations for all sides? Or as I think ( and I really hope I am wrong ), they will make an epic screw up like Jamie killing Alton last season in a scene that made no sense whatsoever..?

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I'm curious to see how it will play out too, but I have a couple ideas, none of them entirely satisfactory...

Maybe Locke is a bit of a loose canon, and he has a lot of undisciplined men much like the Bloody Mummers. And maybe Jaime is not being an orderly captive and he is running his mouth a bit too much and driving Locke so crazy that he just has to do something to show Jaime he means business. Or maybe Roose secretly approved of the maiming to get on Karstark's good side so he can say, "Lord Karstark, he's a cripple now with no sword hand; he can never kill again." But then, of course, Roose releases Jaime in exchange for Jaime agreeing not to tell his father it was the Boltons who cut off his hand. But who will he say cut it off then? If he says it was the Starks or the Stark bannermen, Tywin will maim Sansa in a hot minute. Maybe he will claim it was Brienne.

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Jaime tries to escape (again), killing several Locke's men. Locke chops Jaime's hand off. Northern vengeance how it's meant to be

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They've changed Hoat to Locke so they can show off the Bolton's more. If you think about what's to come, it's a worthy change. As for Jaime losing a hand, I don't think Locke is a Lord, he may still lead a group of savages. Roose Bolton described him as "his best hunter," and a High Born would be no such thing. The synopsis of Episode 3 contains the line: "Jaime makes a deal with his captors," which is interesting to say the least. I don't think they'll cut off his hand just cause they can.

Noah Taylor is an extraordinarily underrated Australian actor as well, he'll be wondrous in any role in this show - even if the role is changed or made up. When he was first cast in an unknown role, I thought to myself how good of a Mance he would make, but I digress. I won't really miss Hoat, I could never really take him seriously and someone in the employ of the Bolton's should ALWAYS be taken seriously. Taylor will bring it.

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Vargo Hoat was one of my least favorite characters in the book. The over-pronounced lisp was goofy and it would have never translated to the screen. The change is a good one as someone else said, because it's showing more of the Boltons, who are going to become very important in later seasons.

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I always thought "kingthlayer, you are my captith!" was hilarious, but yeah, other than the lisp and extensive cruelty, Vargo really wasn't that special, and Noah Taylor is a great actor, so I'm excited to see what they come up with for him, and if his fate will be similar to that of Vargo's.

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So, this episode we had our first peek at 'Locke', a TV character who is supposed to be playing the role of Vargo Hoat.

However if you think about it, this isn't quite right.

Vargo Hoat and co. were a mercenary band who switched sides and had no loyalty to anyone, they were also criminal and depraved.

Locke is Bolton's own bannerman. Why would he cut off Jamie's hand?

Roose can't do it. He needs the alliance with Tywin. Atleast Book Roose wouldn't do such a thing.

I can't see Robb not finding out about Roose sending Jamie free ( hand cut off or otherwise )...

I am really curious to see how this will all work out. Do you think they will manage to find plausible explanations and motivations for all sides? Or as I think ( and I really hope I am wrong ), they will make an epic screw up like Jamie killing Alton last season in a scene that made no sense whatsoever..?

I didn't mind that. Why is it such a big deal that they made him a kinslayer? He did attempt to murder Bran, which I still think is much worse.

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Another thing I should mention is that Locke already exists in the books. He's called Steelshanks Walton.

I didn't mind that. Why is it such a big deal that they made him a kinslayer? He did attempt to murder Bran, which I still think is much worse.

It's not about being a kinslayer, its the way they went about it the whole scene

-why is a nobleman's son on guard duty by himself

-why does that moron enter the cage when he saw one prisoner kill another

-does Jamie really expect to escape when surrounded by thousands of northern soldiers.

-And yes, I did find it out of character for Jamie to kill -not only one of his kin- but someone who hero worshipped him a minute ago, for basically no reason. He could just have told Alton to pretend dead instead.

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Another thing I should mention is that Locke already exists in the books. He's called Steelshanks Walton.

There is actually a House Locke in ASOIAF but they are not Roose Boltons bannermen...also...Steelshanks is cast this season so I imagine he will still play his role as Jaimes escort...I am thinking Locke (Taylor) is going to take on aspects of Vargo's arc but still too early to tell if he will defy Roose an follow how own agenda

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The whole reason for reworking Vargo and the Brave Companions was to simplify things for TV and to cement House Bolton's place in the viewers' minds. As others have mentioned, the Boltons will become very important in the future and the time is right to start working them into the story in earnest. To introduce this colorful sellsword troupe out of nowhere (in the same episode as the BWB, at that) would have created a lot of confusion among non-readers.

I liked our brief glimpse of Locke. As much as I liked Vargo's stuff in the book, on screen he may well have come across as goofy which would have set the wrong tone. Locke carries an air of menace about him.

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I hated it. It was character assassination and it wasn't even in the books. Don't the writers know that they can't just write fake things in it looked really stupid and I don't know what the point of that scene was.

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I hated it. It was character assassination and it wasn't even in the books. Don't the writers know that they can't just write fake things in it looked really stupid and I don't know what the point of that scene was.

They can't just 'write fake things in'? As opposed to the 'reality' of the novels?

Actually I think you're being sarcastic, so I'll ignore you so as not to look silly myself.

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I hated it. It was character assassination and it wasn't even in the books. Don't the writers know that they can't just write fake things in it looked really stupid and I don't know what the point of that scene was.

Was this meant for the Cat/Jon thread?

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I always thought "kingthlayer, you are my captith!" was hilarious, but yeah, other than the lisp and extensive cruelty, Vargo really wasn't that special, and Noah Taylor is a great actor, so I'm excited to see what they come up with for him, and if his fate will be similar to that of Vargo's.

Me too, and I wouldn't have minded seeing him on the show. Noah Taylor is rather good though, so it might just work anyway.

As for Jaime's hand, my guess is that they'll probably tweak around with the reason for cutting it off.

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I like the fact that they replaced Vargo with a Bolton Bannerman. It gives the Boltons more characters, personality and removes the Bloody Mummers, who would have looked silly, confusing and out of place in the series.

I guess Jaime will still lose his hand because of Locke, maybe while trying to escape and the Boltons chop it off afterwards.

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I always thought "kingthlayer, you are my captith!" was hilarious, but yeah, other than the lisp and extensive cruelty, Vargo really wasn't that special, and Noah Taylor is a great actor, so I'm excited to see what they come up with for him, and if his fate will be similar to that of Vargo's.

It's a bit sad that sometimes book adaptations get ride of moments in books/comics when they don't take themselves so seriously. And there is some cruel irony to the fact that the great Kingthlayer was caught by a guy who can't even speak properly: a completely "what's the worst that could happen now?" scenario.

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So, this episode we had our first peek at 'Locke', a TV character who is supposed to be playing the role of Vargo Hoat.

However if you think about it, this isn't quite right.

Vargo Hoat and co. were a mercenary band who switched sides and had no loyalty to anyone, they were also criminal and depraved.

Locke is Bolton's own bannerman. Why would he cut off Jamie's hand?

Roose can't do it. He needs the alliance with Tywin. Atleast Book Roose wouldn't do such a thing.

I can't see Robb not finding out about Roose sending Jamie free ( hand cut off or otherwise )...

I am really curious to see how this will all work out. Do you think they will manage to find plausible explanations and motivations for all sides? Or as I think ( and I really hope I am wrong ), they will make an epic screw up like Jamie killing Alton last season in a scene that made no sense whatsoever..?

Don't forget that Lord Rickard had promised the hand of his daughter to whoever captured the Kingthlayer

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