Jon Snow and his NW vows

[Bo Bice]

So I see a lot of people saying that if Jon is dead and then resurrected, he will be free of his vows to the nights watch. But is that the only way it can happen? Aemon could have left when KL was destroyed, and Jon basically had the option when Robb was marching off to war. It might be different now that he's the LC, but could he possibly appoint another one in his place? And at this point after he was nearly killed by the NW because they felt as though he was betraying them, kinda makes sense to appoint a new LC.

Also I remember in an interview with GRRM he said that it was significant that Jon took his vows beyond the wall at the heart tree. I cant find it, but I'm almost positive he commented on this in response to Jon being able to leave the NW eventually.

[Mladen]

So I see a lot of people saying that if Jon is dead and then resurrected, he will be free of his vows to the nights watch. But is that the only way it can happen? Aemon could have left when KL was destroyed, and Jon basically had the option when Robb was marching off to war. It might be different now that he's the LC, but could he possibly appoint another one in his place? And at this point after he was nearly killed by the NW because they felt as though he was betraying them, kinda makes sense to appoint a new LC.

No, they couldn`t. They would have become deserters and they would have been killed.

[Beorn Snow]

A vow is a vow. I´m in the camp that doesn´t think resurrection changes things one bit. But obviously any man can break his vows, and there is not much the NW can do about if that man has an army of wildlings, support of northern lord and the most stubborn king in westeros.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I believe that before/during the LN 2.0 the Wall and NW will fall. At the dawn of the new era (after the LN) the NW will be refomed and the old vows will not be valid anymore. So Jon will be free of his old vows.

[MasterJack]

A king decree would suffice I think (Robb's will) and if it is not enough, then promise to give em 100 men.

[Bo Bice]

No, they couldn`t. They would have become deserters and they would have been killed.

Granny Is there any chance that Jon could be released from his oaths of the nightwatch?

George_RR_Martin The great council would have released Aemon from his maester's oath, so I suppose it would be possible. With an appropriate authority.

http://web.archive.o...pts/031899.html

[Mladen]

Granny Is there any chance that Jon could be released from his oaths of the nightwatch?

George_RR_Martin The great council would have released Aemon from his maester's oath, so I suppose it would be possible. With an appropriate authority.

http://web.archive.o...pts/031899.html

And who would be that appropriate authority? You just said they could have, and I replied that it wouldn`t have been so easy. If Jon left the NW that night at GOT, he would have been hunted and possible executed.

[Bo Bice]

And who would be that appropriate authority? You just said they could have, and I replied that it wouldn`t have been so easy. If Jon left the NW that night at GOT, he would have been hunted and possible executed.

Well I didn't say Jon could leave for a fact, but yes I was wrong about that. But you were wrong about Aemon, he could have been released from his vows so he wouldnt have been a deserter. You said they couldnt leave, would have been deserters and killed. But thats not true, Aemon could have left if he wanted to.

And as for who the authority is? I'm guessing the LC, but obviously hes keeping it ambiguous

[Corvo Attano]

Is a king allowed to release a black brother from their vows? If so, that should be the only way to cancel them out. Im guessing jon will be presumed dead but his friends (Edd, Emmett, Leathers etc) will discover that hes still alive and he will pull a Grover Cleveland

[Mladen]

Well I didn't say Jon could leave for a fact, but yes I was wrong about that. But you were wrong about Aemon, he could have been released from his vows so he wouldnt have been a deserter. You said they couldnt leave, would have been deserters and killed. But thats not true, Aemon could have left if he wanted to.

And as for who the authority is? I'm guessing the LC, but obviously hes keeping it ambiguous

But as I understood for Aemon, the Council of Citadel would have to do that. And they would have never done that. That`s why the only way Aemon woulg get off his NW vows was to desert. And he would heve been killed for that.

[Septon Meribald]

In the end the King's law is the rule of the land. If the king says a person is relieved of their vows and is not an outlaw, then it's so. Now given the respect these oaths are given this could cause people to doubt the system and challenge the King's authority, but in the end if the King says, this person can leave the Night's Watch and you kill the person as a deserter, you can be killed as a murderer in the name of the King.

[Hotpie4theironthrone]

So I see a lot of people saying that if Jon is dead and then resurrected, he will be free of his vows to the nights watch. But is that the only way it can happen? Aemon could have left when KL was destroyed, and Jon basically had the option when Robb was marching off to war. It might be different now that he's the LC, but could he possibly appoint another one in his place? And at this point after he was nearly killed by the NW because they felt as though he was betraying them, kinda makes sense to appoint a new LC.

Also I remember in an interview with GRRM he said that it was significant that Jon took his vows beyond the wall at the heart tree. I cant find it, but I'm almost positive he commented on this in response to Jon being able to leave the NW eventually.

Very interesting if that's true. Clearly means he could be renouncing the old Gods. If he is getting resurrected then obviously Mel will play a part and it could mean he will take the Red God. If he does then hopefully he wont be as pious or fanatical as Mellisandre is, that would be so annoying!

Despite all of this though surely the fact that they killed him means he can forsake his vows?

[Septon Meribald]

Very interesting if that's true. Clearly means he could be renouncing the old Gods. If he is getting resurrected then obviously Mel will play a part and it could mean he will take the Red God. If he does then hopefully he wont be as pious or fanatical as Mellisandre is, that would be so annoying!

Despite all of this though surely the fact that they killed him means he can forsake his vows?

I don't think he has to abandon the old gods for R'Hllor. If there's any significance to Jon's vows being sworn to the old gods I would imagine it's in the fact that his brother is in the process of joining the old gods. If you swear before a god that you will do something and the god later says you've done enough I no longer hold you responsible, I'm pretty sure everyone would agree you're off the hook.

[King Crow]

Most king's have the power to release a brother of the Nightswatch from his vows. Only the Nightswatch,or the gods that Jon swore upon have the authority to release him from his vows. Someone would have to convince the order to release Jon from his vows, or there would have to be some sort of sign that it is the will of the Old gods that Jon be released.

[Buried Treasure]

In the end the King's law is the rule of the land. If the king says a person is relieved of their vows and is not an outlaw, then it's so. Now given the respect these oaths are given this could cause people to doubt the system and challenge the King's authority, but in the end if the King says, this person can leave the Night's Watch and you kill the person as a deserter, you can be killed as a murderer in the name of the King.

The kings law is the law in the land if there is only one king. Stannis evidently believes that his kingdom includes the Wall, giving him authority to release a brother - and why would he not? If he is ruler of all Westeros then all the men of the Watch come from his lands and none of his subjects have grounds to object if he wants somebody out of the Watch. However as the ruler of all Westeros is a disputed subject it would violate the neutrality of the Watch to accept the authority of any of those kings (Stanns or Robb) in letting a brother out. Robb, who was claiming to be ruler of only part of Westeros, did not even claim to have the authority to release a brother, he raised the possibility of bribing the LC to allow it.

[Ser Greg of House House]

I think after what happened the Night's Watch will be extinct, at least for some time. So basically everyone will be released from their vows.

[Young Nan]

I'm totally not buying the resurrection = free from vows thing. Seems like a really cheap technicality. Since he "died", now "his watch his ended". Seems stupid.

I do probably see him getting released from his vows later though, most likely by a king's decree. There's been too much foreshadowing/setup for it to be anything else. We have Robb's decree naming Jon his heir, and Stannis trying to legitimize him, with him refusing. There's already two kings trying to legitimize Jon, I think that's the path it will take.

And, a king can do whatever he wants. Joff already set a precedent with dismissing Ser Barriston from his lifelong vows as a KG. If the KG can do it, why not NW?

[Corvo Attano]

I'm totally not buying the resurrection = free from vows thing. Seems like a really cheap technicality. Since he "died", now "his watch his ended". Seems stupid.

I do probably see him getting released from his vows later though, most likely by a king's decree. There's been too much foreshadowing/setup for it to be anything else. We have Robb's decree naming Jon his heir, and Stannis trying to legitimize him, with him refusing. There's already two kings trying to legitimize Jon, I think that's the path it will take.

And, a king can do whatever he wants. Joff already set a precedent with dismissing Ser Barriston from his lifelong vows as a KG. If the KG can do it, why not NW?

I couldn't agree more.

[Beric Zoolander]

I never understood this, so the NW was clearly fed up with Jon and attempt to assassinate him, I don't agree like most people that this was a small group, this was clearly a large part of the actual NW members (Non-Wildling), most of the people involved had a lot of decision making power. Depending on what happens, if anything the NW is probably falling appart, divided between Jon supporters and Non-Jon people.

Other options are they take back the NW for Jon (which is probably not likely) or else under the control of those who were against Jon. His body is being taken somewhere, he's been stabbed multiple times, he needs to be tended to, or else he's good as dead. If they bring him back and he just goes back to the way things were and is LC again, guarantee another attempt on his life. Its not safe for him to be around there, he's not going to stay at the Wall. Everything changed for him that moment that he was stabbed.

vows mean just about nothing at this point.

[Fire and Lemoncakes]

From my understanding the NW isn't subject to the Iron Throne or part of the Seven Kingdoms. Therefore some decree of some self-styled king is about as important as the word of a lamb man sheperd when it concerns the NW. Apart from might makes right of course.