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Logodnica

[Book Spoilers] If Joffrey is already being fitted for wedding clothes...

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"A death at a wedding AGAIN? Can't the show think of something new, we've seen the same thing last year, are we expected to be surprised again?"

I would have to disagree. as someone else said on here, it would be far more ridiculous for two death weddings to happen back to back.

Also, the other comment about the Oberyn scene being not needed because it is 10-15 minutes is interesting, although this is not an issue either. I remember someone on another thread putting it beautuflly: basically, the writers on this show are put to a tremendous task of being able to put huge book conversations into a few simple lines that are watched and fully understood by show viewers. QoT's scene with Sansa was a great example. It went into tremendous detail and lasted for a large POV chapter, but the show scene was barely a few lines structurally speaking.

If the wedding is put in this season, I'm sure the writers will have a good reason, although this is an end which I cannot rationalize as being entirely logical.

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I don't understand people who say that the PW doesn't make any sense to be in Season 3, and that it won't fit the plot. I actually think its the other way round. The PW makes PERFECT sense, because it neatly serves as a scense change, climax, and start of a different chapter for all the characters in KL.I think people who think the PW should be in Season 4 don't really think of the show as a TV product, and the seasons as distinct entities in themselves, but rather think of Season 3 and Season 4 as 'the seasons to throw things into from the books'. In TV, seasons must be self contained and complete an arc in themselves for their characters. A season is typically structured to have an introduction where things move onwards from the old season and the characters take a step into a new direction and find themselves in new and interesting circumstances, then a buildup, a climax for the characters, then a chapter close, where the characters take a next move into the new situation they will find themselves in at the next season's start. You can't have characters who don't build up to anything all season and sort of stay there doing nothing at the season climax. You can't have a new season start with the characters being pretty much exactly where they were. You can't have a season climax in episode 3 or 4 of a new season, having been build up over one and a half years, with a year's break in between, then a slowdown for major characters again, so that you build a second climax in episodes 8 and 9 of the same season. Having the PW in Season 4 makes the storylines of Cercei, Tyrion, Sansa, Jaime, Margaery, the QOT very awkard. Really, think of this, what will Jaime be doing for the first half of season 4? Jaime can only arrive in King's Landing after Joffrey has been killed, so what can he be doing for the first hallf of the season? Doesn't it make much more sense for him to finish his story 3 arc right as he's coming into King's Landing, and then start Season 4 with him right when he comes into the city? The only reason to have it in Season 4 seems to be some obsessive purist concern to have Oberyn's introduction play exactly as it did in the books, when it can be handled so much better otherwise.

We had a long thread on the subject back in the General Discussion. So as not to retype my arguments again, I'll just quote my post from that thread below, written just after the end of Season 2. I actually think that so far with what little we are seeing of Season 3, my predictions in it are coming true.

:agree: :bowdown:

Although I think one of the cliffhangers this season will be Sansa just disappearing from the room, while the guards are taking a hold of Tyrion.

The Epilogue will be LS, like the White Walkers last year.

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SPOILER ALERT

It has been revealed that the episode that GRRM will write for season 4 will be episode two. So I think the events in Kings Landing in this seasons finale will be getting prepared for Joffrey's wedding, the Lannisters preparing for the Dornish arrival, and the aftermath of a certain event.

Do we have any confirmation of this? A link? An article? A quick google search revealed nothing on my end.

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Do we have any confirmation of this? A link? An article? A quick google search revealed nothing on my end.

It's at WIC. But there is no comfirm on what the episode will consist of, only that he's writing it.

My money is on the battle for The Wall, and Stannis's arrival. The timing works much better for ep 2 than the PW, IMO.

@lotun - I don't see both the RW and PW happening in the same episode, only due to Tyrion needing to tell Sansa about it. If they're in the same episode, they will seem to happen simultaneously. Regardless that Tywin organized it, it doesn't mean he has a Magic Asshai Ball and knows it came off without a hitch.

But in back to back eps? Definitely. I also think that would make for a much bigger surprise than waiting for a year, and having it become inevitable to even non-book readers (which it's sort of there now....)

Once Tyrion tells Sansa about it, all bets are off. Like someone else mentioned in this thread - they really don't need to even have a wedding. Just a dinner, and Joffrey chokes. Although it does take away from the Black Widow Virgin factor of Margaery Tyrell-Baratheon-Baratheon-Baratheon.

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Looking at the episode names:

Ep9: The Rains of Castamere ... Given the song named "Rains of Castamere" is a reminder of the fate of those who cross the Lannisters, we can safely say this is the RW (the song is sung at the RW, but it's also sung at the PW) So it is POSSIBLE, we get BOTH weddings in the ONE episode.

Ep10: Mhysa ... Which is low Valyrian for "Mother" to means it's about Catelyn and/or Cersei... Meaning Catelyn's fate is at least hinted at, and Cersei has to have a mohter moment (meaning her son Jofferey might be about to die or is already dead.

Given that episode 1 linked LF with Sansa and getting her out of King's Landing, I suspect that will need to see the end of the season with Sansa leaving the city ...

My money is on the RW and PW being in this season.

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It's at WIC. But there is no comfirm on what the episode will consist of, only that he's writing it.

My money is on the battle for The Wall, and Stannis's arrival. The timing works much better for ep 2 than the PW, IMO.

@lotun - I don't see both the RW and PW happening in the same episode, only due to Tyrion needing to tell Sansa about it. If they're in the same episode, they will seem to happen simultaneously. Regardless that Tywin organized it, it doesn't mean he has a Magic Asshai Ball and knows it came off without a hitch.

But in back to back eps? Definitely. I also think that would make for a much bigger surprise than waiting for a year, and having it become inevitable to even non-book readers (which it's sort of there now....)

Once Tyrion tells Sansa about it, all bets are off. Like someone else mentioned in this thread - they really don't need to even have a wedding. Just a dinner, and Joffrey chokes. Although it does take away from the Black Widow Virgin factor of Margaery Tyrell-Baratheon-Baratheon-Baratheon.

George says -

"Most of season four will be drawn from the third book, A STORM OF SWORDS, though some material from the fourth and fifth books may be added. Books four and five, remember, take place simultaneously, not sequentially."

So I doubt it's the Battle for the Wall.

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George says -

"Most of season four will be drawn from the third book, A STORM OF SWORDS, though some material from the fourth and fifth books may be added. Books four and five, remember, take place simultaneously, not sequentially."

So I doubt it's the Battle for the Wall.

Why not? 6 episodes = most. If season 4 ends Jon's arc with becoming LC, the Battle needs to be well before that. It also wouldn't surprise me if the battle is more than one episode. Then Jon's in jail for a while, then the voting lasts a while....

But who knows? It's fun to look at the Timeline and try to figure it out. And that one doesn't even include events from ADWD.

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Has Mace Tyrell even been cast? I don't see anything for his character on imdb. I can't see how they can have the PW without him (I don't buy this "Loras can give her away" idea; why wouldn't her FATHER be at the wedding?).

The final episode has to have a Dany in Astapor segment. Yes, Mhysa means mother, but it's what the slaves call DANY. They can't squeeze a significant Astapor segment, the PW, AND Uncat into one episode (and I am positive that Uncat is the closer of the season, thus creating another "mother" reference). Cat existence, particularly in the show, completely revolves around her role as a mother.

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They won't introduce Mace Tyrell ... They don't need him for anything that cannot be done by another character

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Ok, I'm calling it now: people who think the PW is in Season 3 are either stupid or ignorant.

This debate has been raging on for ages but the reality became clear a good while ago. As it stands, I will happily take a bet that the PW will not occur in Season 3. If I'm wrong, I'll change my avatar to anything embarrassing that my counter-better proposes. If I'm right, we'll do the reverse.

As a bonus, I'll also regularly refer to myself as both stupid and ignorant in every other post.

Anyone interested in such a bet?

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can't they just get some random dude for mace tyrell? he's a boring buffoon anyway. he doesn't even need to talk...

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Ok, I'm calling it now: people who think the PW is in Season 3 are either stupid or ignorant.

This debate has been raging on for ages but the reality became clear a good while ago. As it stands, I will happily take a bet that the PW will not occur in Season 3. If I'm wrong, I'll change my avatar to anything embarrassing that my counter-better proposes. If I'm right, we'll do the reverse.

As a bonus, I'll also regularly refer to myself as both stupid and ignorant in every other post.

Anyone interested in such a bet?

I want this bet! Too bad I agree with you...

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Ok, I'm calling it now: people who think the PW is in Season 3 are either stupid or ignorant.

This debate has been raging on for ages but the reality became clear a good while ago. As it stands, I will happily take a bet that the PW will not occur in Season 3. If I'm wrong, I'll change my avatar to anything embarrassing that my counter-better proposes. If I'm right, we'll do the reverse.

As a bonus, I'll also regularly refer to myself as both stupid and ignorant in every other post.

Anyone interested in such a bet?

Asshole much?

Seriously dude, what are you afraid of that you have to belittle people who disagree with you?

If you don't want to have this discussion, then don't. Stay away from threads like this one. But calling people stupid and ignorant is repetitive, and doesn't add anything to the discussion.

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If PW doesn't happen this season, it has to happen in the first few episodes of season 4

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sooo Mad King Jeoffry agrees to marry Marge Tig ole bitties at the end of season 2 only to have it in season 4? t.v dont work that way homie

i bet we get a Baratheon/Tyrell/Lannister/Stark uber wedding where imp nasty gets framed for MKJ's murder IN SEASON 3.they have laid groundwork in the show for both tyrion & joeff to get hitched at same time. tyrion will also kill tywin/shae & get framed for j by queen o thrones. it is known

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I have carefully read this entire raging debate, it's great! I can actually see the valid arguments for both sides of this and I look forward to finding out who was right / wrong about this season. I personally just don't know... the evidence and reasons are strong both ways so I'm going to just sit on the fence and see what happens. I will say, with the telling name of the last episode... "Mother" could mean Catelyn, Cersei and Danaerys all three at once.

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Its most likely just a lead-up, and a good way to show him being a spoiled sod.

There's a lot to cram into 10 episodes.

That said, i still wish it would happen this season.

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Ok so this might be a stupid thought and sorry if it is, but do you think they definitely will kill off joffrey? I mean we've hardly seen tommen in series 1 or 2 and when he did briefly appear in season 2 a lot of (non book) fans had no idea who he was. So they are going to have to bring tommen into this season so people know who he is when he takes joffreys place...

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Ok, I'm calling it now: people who think the PW is in Season 3 are either delightful or godly.

Some people believe the PW will be near RW, because of the same reason it was in the same book: To make it bittersweet, not just bitter.

If you want to bash people, right or not, you're not going to make them accept your point of view. You're just going to make your opposition become emotionally defensive, and use the same crude tools you do, which changes this from a discussion to a piss match. Which, at least to me, is unseemly.

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Ok, I'm calling it now: people who think the PW is in Season 3 are either stupid or ignorant.

This debate has been raging on for ages but the reality became clear a good while ago. As it stands, I will happily take a bet that the PW will not occur in Season 3. If I'm wrong, I'll change my avatar to anything embarrassing that my counter-better proposes. If I'm right, we'll do the reverse.

As a bonus, I'll also regularly refer to myself as both stupid and ignorant in every other post.

Anyone interested in such a bet?

I'll take that bet, but I'm not interested in playing with avatars. Why don't we do a money bet. Money transfer to a winner's bank account of choice. I win you give me $250, you win I give you $500 AND will change my avatar to whatever you want. I'll give you a handicap since you're not winning this one.

Edited to add: If the offer is accepted, it stands regardless of what happens in the next episodes. If the next few episodes make it obvious there'll be a wedding, no cancelling the bet before the PW actually airs.

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