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[Book Spoilers] If Joffrey is already being fitted for wedding clothes...

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With regards to Mace and Oberyn: as has been said by me and others, the PW is the whole reason why they're there in the first place.

No it is not, and for someone clinging to page numbers in SOS you really should know the material better. Oberyn is not coming to KL for the wedding, that is just an added benefit. Oberyn is coming to KL to fill the small council seat given to Dorne as part of the Myrcella deal that Tyrion brokered in COK.

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Ok. How weird is it to suggest someone's murder might lift spirits?

I know right...but I think that is just the effect that entering the ASOIF universe has. After all before ADWD I never thought I'd be cheering on canibalism but I wanted to hug Manderly for his Ode to The Rat Cook.

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I can see Ros taking Dontos's part and LF killing her and right before refering to her spying on him for Varys.

The problem with that scenario is that if Ros helps LF help Sansa escape than presumably Varys will know where she went to, which may cause problems down the road. I dont think Book Varys knows where Sansa is and that my impact his future plans.

I agree about the differences with book Shae and TV Shae, and agree with those who don't think tyrion will kill her nor will she betray him quite the same way as in the books. I do think Shae is doomed but I'm not as convinced that they will make it at Tyrion's hand (in fact given that he's still going to be killing his father I'm almost certain he won't be killing Shae - as killing book Shae cost him a lot of fans and TV Shae is a much better person). However I picked this quote because I think Ros might be filling not Dontos' role (though she might help with Sansa's escape) but that she will be filling Jayne Poole's role and being sent north as the fake-Arya. I think she will be sent as punishment for Littlefinger finding out she is a spy and because, as she noted in this week's episode, she grew up in the shadow of Winterfell AND has a prior relationship with Theon. Sure she looks NOTHING like Arya (though they could always dye her hair ala Sansa in the Vale) and is obviously older but as I never got the impression that the Northern lords in the castle (as opposed to those with Stannis) really believed the set-up but were going along with it because it suited their purposes.

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I agree about the differences with book Shae and TV Shae, and agree with those who don't think tyrion will kill her nor will she betray him quite the same way as in the books. I do think Shae is doomed but I'm not as convinced that they will make it at Tyrion's hand (in fact given that he's still going to be killing his father I'm almost certain he won't be killing Shae - as killing book Shae cost him a lot of fans and TV Shae is a much better person). However I picked this quote because I think Ros might be filling not Dontos' role (though she might help with Sansa's escape) but that she will be filling Jayne Poole's role and being sent north as the fake-Arya. I think she will be sent as punishment for Littlefinger finding out she is a spy and because, as she noted in this week's episode, she grew up in the shadow of Winterfell AND has a prior relationship with Theon. Sure she looks NOTHING like Arya (though they could always dye her hair ala Sansa in the Vale) and is obviously older but as I never got the impression that the Northern lords in the castle (as opposed to those with Stannis) really believed the set-up but were going along with it because it suited their purposes.

I don't see Ros being fake-Arya. Looks aside, the Northerners know Arya's age and Ros doesn't even begin to approach the ballpark. Fake Arya will be someone else, assuming they keep that plot point. I could see a slight possibility (very slight) that they switch things up a bit and send Ros off as fake Sansa (at least she's a redhead). Depending on how much of that plotline they keep they may need the actress to do some nude & sexual scenes, which they wouldn't want to do with someone Arya's age anyway.

Of course, that is complicated by Sansa's marriage to Tyrion, but with Tyrion tried for murder & Sansa missing, it's possible that they rearrange the plot to have her marriage dissolved and set up with the Boltons instead of Arya. My guess is just someone else for fake-Arya. Not even necessarily Jeyne Poole or anyone we know.

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I don't see Ros being fake-Arya. Looks aside, the Northerners know Arya's age and Ros doesn't even begin to approach the ballpark. Fake Arya will be someone else, assuming they keep that plot point. I could see a slight possibility (very slight) that they switch things up a bit and send Ros off as fake Sansa (at least she's a redhead). Depending on how much of that plotline they keep they may need the actress to do some nude & sexual scenes, which they wouldn't want to do with someone Arya's age anyway.

Of course, that is complicated by Sansa's marriage to Tyrion, but with Tyrion tried for murder & Sansa missing, it's possible that they rearrange the plot to have her marriage dissolved and set up with the Boltons instead of Arya. My guess is just someone else for fake-Arya. Not even necessarily Jeyne Poole or anyone we know.

I don't see them dropping the plot point because it is more than just a plot point, it is the whole reason all the mountain clans decided to support Stannis ("to rescue the Ned's little girl") and the only way the Boltons can lay claim to Winterfell. Though it is possible that they go with a fake-Sansa instead of a fake-Arya (and Ros would certainly be suited to play her a bit better than Arya), I think they will keep it as Arya because Littlefinger (who helps out tremendously in the whole fake-Arya plot) has his own plans for Sansa that don't include her whereabouts being known.

Though it is totally possible they can cast a presently unknown character for said fake-Arya role, I started thinking it would be Ros basically for three reasons - 1) even with her being Varys' spy, that made up role will end when Varys goes underground after the end of the SOS material, so they will need another reason to keep her around (if they want to and my impression is that the TV viewers aren't as put off by her as the book readers); 2) Her mentioning that she grew up in the shadow of Winterfell gives her a bit of northern knowledge that would make up for the fake-Arya (whomever she is) not being Jayne Poole; and 3) She and Theon have a history, so there would be something for the two characters to work with in place of the "grew up with Jayne" connection that she and Theon have in the book. I don't think the believability of fake-Arya is ever really an issue for those involved because they just don't care in the books, nor do I think they will care in the show. And finally given Littlefinger's threats to Ros last year after Barra was killed (how he sold the other girl who wouldn't smile to someone who abused her horribly), it would be a fitting punishment (in his eyes) for Ros should he discover that she's Varys' spy.

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They could very easily just introduce a fake Arya. Just make it a mystery who this girl is, and then gradually reveal that she is a childhood friend of Sansa and Arya, and also acquainted to Theon. So we could see both see the mystery of 'Arya' unfold while Theon regains his humanity.

Pretty much nothing of ADwD's story in the North would make sense if there was no fake Arya/if the fake Arya was not Jeyne Poole.

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On the show Ros was a whore from right outside of Winterfell. I imagine many people know who she is up there. I really don't see a believable way to replace Jeyne with Ros. The age difference is huge, even for Sansa. At least with Jeyne she lived inside the castle and was always seen there and not by the brothel in town.

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On the show Ros was a whore from right outside of Winterfell. I imagine many people know who she is up there. I really don't see a believable way to replace Jeyne with Ros. The age difference is huge, even for Sansa. At least with Jeyne she lived inside the castle and was always seen there and not by the brothel in town.

The town is gone and everyone in the castle put to the sword...who exactly would be there to contradict Bolton (I don't believe the Lords would care as they all seem to be putting on a mummer's show accepting fake Arya in the book)? All the servents are brought in by others attending fake Arya's wedding. And yes while they totally could introduce a new character and create a backstory for her, given the size of the cast and the fact that they created Ros to begin with, I'm working with the possibility that they are going to keep her around for more than just the KL story.

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The town is gone and everyone in the castle put to the sword...who exactly would be there to contradict Bolton (I don't believe the Lords would care as they all seem to be putting on a mummer's show accepting fake Arya in the book)? All the servents are brought in by others attending fake Arya's wedding. And yes while they totally could introduce a new character and create a backstory for her, given the size of the cast and the fact that they created Ros to begin with, I'm working with the possibility that they are going to keep her around for more than just the KL story.

Any of the Lords and their men that Bolton has with him that have been to Winterfell before. I'm sure they visited the brothel. The people living in the winter town where the brothel is weren't killed either, they may be some of the servents, Roose lets Mance and his spear wives in to work. I don't think the Lords care because Jeyne is actually kind of believable. They may not know for sure but at least she is around the age and same color hair and would have been seen inside Winterfell. I can't see how they would believe a full grown women being "the Ned's little girl." If I'm watching the show and I see them bring in a fake Arya that actually resembles her and see that the Northern Lords are believing that this girl is Arya, I would be like, ok I can see why they might believe. I just can't see that working with Ros.

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No it is not, and for someone clinging to page numbers in SOS you really should know the material better. Oberyn is not coming to KL for the wedding, that is just an added benefit. Oberyn is coming to KL to fill the small council seat given to Dorne as part of the Myrcella deal that Tyrion brokered in COK.

:agree: :bowdown:

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As for Ros as Fake Arya - I can't see it for several reasons:

  • She's older than Sansa, and likely older than Robb and Jon. No way she's Ned's "little" girl.

  • 90% of the men in the North who are still alive probably know Ros.

  • I think if Talisa doesn't suddenly replace Roose in the turncloak dept at the RW, and actually survives, she's got a better chance of being passed off as Fake Arya if they don't recast/bring back Jeyne for the Theon-factor.

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As for Ros as Fake Arya - I can't see it for several reasons:

  • She's older than Sansa, and likely older than Robb and Jon. No way she's Ned's "little" girl.

  • 90% of the men in the North who are still alive probably know Ros.

  • I think if Talisa doesn't suddenly replace Roose in the turncloak dept at the RW, and actually survives, she's got a better chance of being passed off as Fake Arya if they don't recast/bring back Jeyne for the Theon-factor.

Oh I know there are reasons why it might not work and you've outlined them well, my thought is basically coming from the belief that they aren't going to kill Ros off after the SOS material ends, and her role as Varys spy would necessarily have to end after that point because he is underground, so the question then becomes what are they going to do with her? I don't see her being a spy as something that will not come back and bite her in the ass, so given Littlefinger's involvement in the fake-Arya plot, I could see fake-arya as being a two-for-one deal with him in that he gets his revenge for her betrayal in addition to helping out Tywin. Her age strikes me as the biggest issue though not an insurmountable one depending on how she is dressed and the attitude she puts foward (as I don't think she's THAT much older than Sansa), and the hair is totally a non-issue as they clearly have a form of hair dye in Westeros that is used on Sansa. As for her being remembered I'm not sure how much a Lord remembers a random whore he may have been with once or twice a couple years earlier, but again if they don't it wouldn't be surprising because she's supposed to be common and therefore unmemorable in the eyes of the nobility. It is also worth noting that the "Ned's little girl" hook really only comes into play for people who have yet to see her, it is used by Stannis to get the clans to follow him, but none of them as of the end of ADWD have laid eyes on said girl so what she looks like doesn't matter. It only matters to the lords in attendance and I don't think any of them really care if she is the real Arya or is even a good attempt at a fake one.

I actually find both of the Talisa speculations (that she will betray Robb and that she will be the Fake-Arya) to be more outlandish and unlikely. 1) I do not think for a moment they will replace Roose as the one to betray Robb, it is too important to the later developments of the story and that is just based on where we've gotten to. I'm pretty convinced that if the details of who stabbed Robb have not yet reached the North, they will at some point. 2) You aren't going to get Jon or the Mountain Clans to rally for the woman who was a big reason Robb got killed, there is no way she would have the same pull as a child of Winterfell. You might if she were pregnant but there is no way she would stay pregnant if she was in Bolton custody and they were trying to claim Winterfell.

However this is getting wildly off topic it occurs to me so perhaps we should bring this to the Ros/Littlefinger/Varys thread that I swear I saw just before I clicked back in here if we want to continue.

So for something on topic: The topic of Joffrey's wedding has been so front and center I'm starting to swing back to the possibility of it being in this season. I've always wanted it in the same season as the RW but became convinced a while back that it would instead be early in Season 4, but that was before the shows started airing and everyone was talking about the wedding. Now I wouldn't be surprised if it makes it into E10 in some fashion.

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Here’s a photo comparison from the season 3 trailer that may shed light (or maybe not, I'm not certain yet):

http://postimg.org/image/lmj5ngnl1/

On the left – Joffrey is wearing his crown, flowing robes or a large cape, and a nice shoulder sash, walking Sansa down the aisle to give her away at her wedding. Joffrey's clothing is light colored.

On the right – Joffrey is wearing a form-fitting tunic with no cape, no shoulder sash, and no crown, walking out of the wedding chapel with Margaery...his new bride? Joffrey's clothing appears much darker, though perhaps that is the lighting (although the lightness of Margaery's clothing is still quite visible).

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Here’s a photo comparison from the season 3 trailer that may shed light (or maybe not, I'm not certain yet):

http://postimg.org/image/lmj5ngnl1/

On the left – Joffrey is wearing his crown, flowing robes or a large cape, and a nice shoulder sash, walking Sansa down the aisle to give her away at her wedding. Joffrey's clothing is light colored.

On the right – Joffrey is wearing a form-fitting tunic with no cape, no shoulder sash, and no crown, walking out of the wedding chapel with Margaery...his new bride? Joffrey's clothing appears much darker, though perhaps that is the lighting (although the lightness of Margaery's clothing is still quite visible).

Thank you for the comparison. It is hard to tell from the back but aren't Margaery and Joffrey wearing crowns? Their heads look sort of "flat" at the top for lack of a better word, though that could be the hairsyles or the angle of the shot I suppose.

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Thank you for the comparison. It is hard to tell from the back but aren't Margaery and Joffrey wearing crowns? Their heads look sort of "flat" at the top for lack of a better word, though that could be the hairsyles or the angle of the shot I suppose.

You may be right...I can't tell if Joffrey is, but if Margaery is already wearing a crown, I'd actually take that as evidence that the wedding has already happened (and she is now queen).

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I won't be convinced the PW can't fit into this season without ruining the depths of it. Even if they don't put it in, I'll still beleive they had the time and pacing. I do somewhat like the thought that the RW and PW will happen in the same episode, either simultaneously or the former first and the latter at the end.

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Which raises a number of questions for me.

1. Presumably Joffrey is bringing Sansa to her wedding, and she is not wearing a Stark cloak (not even the Stark colors), so perhaps there wont be the embarrassing of Tyrion at the wedding.

2. Did Robb and Talisa exchange cloaks at their wedding?

3. In the 2nd picture of Margary and Joffrey, neither is wearing a cloak.

SO it appears cloaks are not part of TV weddings so Sansa will have to embarrass Tyrion in some other way?

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Which raises a number of questions for me.

1. Presumably Joffrey is bringing Sansa to her wedding, and she is not wearing a Stark cloak (not even the Stark colors), so perhaps there wont be the embarrassing of Tyrion at the wedding.

2. Did Robb and Talisa exchange cloaks at their wedding?

3. In the 2nd picture of Margary and Joffrey, neither is wearing a cloak.

SO it appears cloaks are not part of TV weddings so Sansa will have to embarrass Tyrion in some other way?

No cloaks.

Not bending down to kiss him?

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According to Spoiler TV episode synopses leaked today:

Tyrion&Sansa's wedding happens in episode 8

Episode 3.08 – Second Sons

King’s Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together. Dany meets the Titan’s Bastard. Davos demands proof from Melisandre. Sam and Gilly meet an older gentleman. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Michelle MacLaren.)

Based on that, I really can't see how PW can possibly be in S3.

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According to Spoiler TV episode synopses leaked today:

Tyrion&Sansa's wedding happens in episode 8

Episode 3.08 – Second Sons

King’s Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together. Dany meets the Titan’s Bastard. Davos demands proof from Melisandre. Sam and Gilly meet an older gentleman. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Michelle MacLaren.)

Based on that, I really can't see how PW can possibly be in S3.

Based on the vague TV synopsis of an episode two-away from the end of the season??

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