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timthenchant3r

[Book Spoilers] Implications of something jojen said

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They cannot tell about the Tower of Joy yet. We never get Ned's dream in season one, I wish there was some self reflection in some of the povs on the show.

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That specific line is not in it, as I recall, Jojen isn't quite so blatent but he makes it pretty clear that his entire purpose is to find Bran and bring him somewhere. I don't think it really makes him more important overall, but rather makes his personal quest important because Bran will have a big role to play in the end.

As far as Jojen is concerned Bran is the one that matters. His mission? Bring him to the three eyed raven.

That's not the impression I got at all. He says he saw Ned's death and he saw the rebellion, but none of that matters. The only one thing that matters is Bran... and that's why he's chosen to dedicate himself to Bran in the first place.

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If they brought up TOJ viewers would have no idea what is going on. Can't throw too much new information at people.

Before I read the books I had to watch every episode twice to understand what was going on. And even then I was left confused at times.

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That's not the impression I got at all. He says he saw Ned's death and he saw the rebellion, but none of that matters. The only one thing that matters is Bran... and that's why he's chosen to dedicate himself to Bran in the first place.

It's just a way for Jojen to tell Bran how important his power is. To the Crannogmen, someone like Bran is far more important to the realm than whoever is King, or whatever happened in the past.

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I was a little confused, Jojen said Bran could see into the past and any time, then said he couldn't. Next thing he does is say he saw the rebellion.

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I was really hoping then that Bran would tell Jojen about the ToJ, but know you've brought this up then maybe Jojen will be the one who will possibly reveal what really happened there.

This ^. It seems clear to me that the show won't wait for Howland to come and maybe tell us a happy story. I'm sure Jojen (if he's not Howland himself, as some would claim :lmao: ) will be the one introducing in depth the ToJ story.

However it seemed to me that it was of little interest to Jojen as he said "You're the one who matters" or something like it. This may mean that Bran is the one who can actually defeat the WW.

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I think if they'll do a reveal about the TOJ, it would be via a dream of Bran himself, especially as they want to focus on Bran's, not Jojen's powers. And I'm kinda glad there was no hint in this episode, Jojen just coming in and dropping the clue would probably have felt a bit cheap imo.

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It would be wonderful if Bran's role were not as mysterious as it is in the books. I am uncomfortable imagining him stuck in some place entirely immobile, even if he can fly anywhere in his 'mind.' The Reeds are a wonderful addition to the show. Something about seeing them makes them immediately feel more important, even though we know they are important in the books. They seem like pure mystery and at the same time bring clarity.

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From Jojen's perspective, Bran is the only one who matters. That's their part of the story. Jojen hasn't had green dreams about Jon or R+L or any of the other parts of the story, because the fulfillment of those parts are not his responsibility.

That is not to say that in the *overall* story, Bran is the most important element. Though they are all important, all have their parts to play.

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I immediately thought Jojen having seen the rebellion pointed to the fact that he can reveal R+L=J either to J or to someone who can carry that message to him (Meera? or Coldhands/Benjen?). I also thought Catlin's comment about a "motherless" Jon insinuated his mother was dead and she was aware of this. Obviously there are two supposedly dead women who were possibly pregnant around the rebellion.

I am only on my first reread having found the books last year after first watching the show. Am I right in thinking that Jojen and Sam Tarly had some interaction at the wall?

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That kind of disappointed me when he said Howland never told them about the rebellion. Convinced me that we wouldn't get the knight of the laughing tree story in the show. but I guess that's not really the rebellion.

well, its kinda the beginning of it. and either way, jojen could have seen it just as easily as anything else

Perhaps I understimate people, but if you could predict R+L=J from watching the show then you're either a fucking wizard or not really unsullied.

things seem more obvious on tv. when you keep the hints, but eliminate the thousands of sentences that obscured the hints, people figure stuff out

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Yeah, most of the unsullied who figured it out, are actually people spoiled by the book-readers, or even worse, other unsullied. The theory of R+L=J spread like wildfire to whomever was interested in this show.

All they had to do was look at the comments in any official trailer on Youtube and R+L=J is right there every time.

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All they had to do was look at the comments in any official trailer on Youtube and R+L=J is right there every time.

I don't think the unsullied would look up trailers.

They don't even look at maps of the world. Some of them are trying to figure out where at in Westeros Dorne is. Some think Dorne is a group of islands.

Though honestly, I have no idea how they'd pick up on R+L=J just from the show.

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The bigger question is why wouldn't Howland tell them anything about it? Are the crannogmen so far removed from Westerosi politics? I'd think not.

I assume he made a promise to Ned as big as the promise Ned made to Lyanna. Anyone who they told would be in danger just by possessing such intel, which is why neither of them ever spoke about it...... yet. I think the only way Howland would ever say anything would be if Jon directly confronted him at some point.

I have no doubt due to the conversation in this episode, that Jojen knows all about the ToJ, and has told Meera, since she speaks about it in the book.

I totally thought thread was going to be about "The only one thing that matters: you". I don't remember that line from the books, but it seems to imply that Jon, R+L=J, and basically everyone else is of lesser importance.

I think that when Bran realizes his full potential north of the Wall, he will be instrumental in helping (Jon and Dany?) fight the Others, due to his omnipresencey nature.... If you've ever read the Dune books, it's reminding me of The Oracle of Time.

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I don't get how Jojen could have seen what happened at the ToJ. Green dreams are prophetic dreams of what is to come. I'm not even sure if show Jojen has the ability to access weirwood trees, but I don't think there are any at the ToJ.

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I don't think the unsullied would look up trailers.

They don't even look at maps of the world. Some of them are trying to figure out where at in Westeros Dorne is. Some think Dorne is a group of islands.

Though honestly, I have no idea how they'd pick up on R+L=J just from the show.

Anything up to 5 mill views per video on the GameOfThrones Youtube channel means that somebody is watching the trailers.

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I think that when Bran realizes his full potential north of the Wall, he will be instrumental in helping (Jon and Dany?) fight the Others, due to his omnipresencey nature.... If you've ever read the Dune books, it's reminding me of The Oracle of Time.

We are talking about this in multiple threads but this is where I think the story is headed. If one were to tap into the information of the universe above what we know as space-time past and present, then there is no limitation to what can be seen and revealed. Bran is definitely following the path of the God Emperor sacrifice to his humanity and all to save the world.

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Regarding the R+L=J theories, do we even know if D&D aim to throw in that subplot in the show yet? As far as I can recall Jon's mysterious parentage was mentioned once, in episode 2 of season 1, where Ned told Jon they would talk about his mother the next time they saw each other. This mystery was quickly "resolved" in the next scene when Ned and Robert talked about their girls during the Rebellion.

R: "Yours was... Meryll, your bastard's mother?"

E: "Wylla."

Boom. As far as the nonreading audience is concerned, the question about Jon's mother is resolved and hasn't been brought up since (or has it? I don't recall...).

Anyway, I think it's a very slim chance they will bring up Jon's parents again. But if I'm wrong I will be very happy.

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Regarding the R+L=J theories, do we even know if D&D aim to throw in that subplot in the show yet? As far as I can recall Jon's mysterious parentage was mentioned once, in episode 2 of season 1, where Ned told Jon they would talk about his mother the next time they saw each other. This mystery was quickly "resolved" in the next scene when Ned and Robert talked about their girls during the Rebellion.

R: "Yours was... Meryll, your bastard's mother?"

E: "Wylla."

Boom. As far as the nonreading audience is concerned, the question about Jon's mother is resolved and hasn't been brought up since (or has it? I don't recall...).

Anyway, I think it's a very slim chance they will bring up Jon's parents again. But if I'm wrong I will be very happy.

You are correct. All R+L=J is reader speculation, the show has never broached that subject.

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