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timthenchant3r

[Book Spoilers] Implications of something jojen said

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We are talking about this in multiple threads but this is where I think the story is headed. If one were to tap into the information of the universe above what we know as space-time past and present, then there is no limitation to what can be seen and revealed. Bran is definitely following the path of the God Emperor sacrifice to his humanity and all to save the world.

:agree: :bowdown:

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Regarding the R+L=J theories, do we even know if D&D aim to throw in that subplot in the show yet? As far as I can recall Jon's mysterious parentage was mentioned once, in episode 2 of season 1, where Ned told Jon they would talk about his mother the next time they saw each other. This mystery was quickly "resolved" in the next scene when Ned and Robert talked about their girls during the Rebellion.

R: "Yours was... Meryll, your bastard's mother?"

E: "Wylla."

Boom. As far as the nonreading audience is concerned, the question about Jon's mother is resolved and hasn't been brought up since (or has it? I don't recall...).

Anyway, I think it's a very slim chance they will bring up Jon's parents again. But if I'm wrong I will be very happy.

You are correct. All R+L=J is reader speculation, the show has never broached that subject.

Yet.

I think it's a lot more than "reader speculation" considering how much GRRM has dropped a metric shit-load of bread crumbs about it. And if indeed R+L=J, it's way more than a minor plot point. It could be THE plot arc that's part of the resolve of the entire story, considering at this point, Jon Snow is the rightful heir to the Seven Kingdoms if you believe that like the Lancasters, Robert Baratheon was a usurper.

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Yet.

I think it's a lot more than "reader speculation" considering how much GRRM has dropped a metric shit-load of bread crumbs about it. And if indeed R+L=J, it's way more than a minor plot point. It could be THE plot arc that's part of the resolve of the entire story, considering at this point, Jon Snow is the rightful heir to the Seven Kingdoms if you believe that like the Lancasters, Robert Baratheon was a usurper.

It's not even a major plot point in the books. As of ADwD no one, not even Jon, is thinking about his parentage.

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it's not even a major plot point in the books. As of ADwD no one, not even Jon, is thinking about his parentage.

Yet.

If it wasn't going to be important, GRRM wouldn't have made "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" one of his main questions to D&D when they had their first meeting.

If it wasn't going to be important, there would never have been the amount of hints and backstory regarding it. There's a ton of bastards in this story. None of the other have been give the same level of attention, detail, and hints.

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Yet.

If it wasn't going to be important, GRRM wouldn't have made "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" one of his main questions to D&D when they had their first meeting.

If it wasn't going to be important, there would never have been the amount of hints and backstory regarding it. There's a ton of bastards in this story. None of the other have been give the same level of attention, detail, and hints.

I never said that it wasn't important at all. At this point in the books and on the show, bigger issues are at play than who is Jon Snow's mother.

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I never said that it wasn't important at all. At this point in the books and on the show, bigger issues are at play than who is Jon Snow's mother.

Absolutely right, and I never said you said that. You said two things:

One:

As of ADwD no one, not even Jon, is thinking about his parentage.

I don't completely disagree with this, however, I do think Howland Reed and his children probably think about it, considering they might be the only people living who know, and it's pretty big and important intel.

You also said:

It's not even a major plot point in the books.

This I do disagree with. Just because it's not being talked about in detail on every page by every character right now, doesn't mean it's not going to be of major relevence to the overall plot of the series. Which is why I said, "Yet."

It's about as important as the Lancasters being originally in power when the Yorkists usurped the throne, and the line of succession continued to be an issue through Elizabeth I's reign, which is why so many people found themselves removed.

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Absolutely right, and I never said you said that. You said two things:

One:

I don't completely disagree with this, however, I do think Howland Reed and his children probably think about it, considering they might be the only people living who know, and it's pretty big and important intel.

You also said:

This I do disagree with. Just because it's not being talked about in detail on every page by every character right now, doesn't mean it's not going to be of major relevence to the overall plot of the series. Which is why I said, "Yet."

It's about as important as the Lancasters being originally in power when the Yorkists usurped the throne, and the line of succession continued to be an issue through Elizabeth I's reign, which is why so many people found themselves removed.

We will see about the Reed children. If anything I see Bloodraven playing a larger role than Howland Reed. At the moment, Howland and crew are fighting the Ironborn in the neck.

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We will see about the Reed children. If anything I see Bloodraven playing a larger role than Howland Reed. At the moment, Howland and crew are fighting the Ironborn in the neck.

I would love that.

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I think that in the show Jojen knows what really happened at the TOJ and the truth about Jon's parentage, and by the end of the show through this character the watchers will become aware of these facts (of course, just in the tv show, in the books the plot is going to be a lot more complex)

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