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Ser Milo of House Mog

(BOOK SPOILER) TOWER OF JOY

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Did anyone else notice that after Bran said that Howland Reed saved Ned's life during the rebellion Jojen responded that he saw it with his green sight? I think this is foreshadowing to the big reveal at the tower of joy?

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Or maybe Jojen is going to help Bran "see" it for himself. The journey to help Bran realize his potential and how to harness his abilities results in his being able to see the rebellion / Tower of Joy for himself and that's how it will be revealed.

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thought so too. during the moment, i really thought he was about to tell him then and there. i do think he will eventually tell the story, now. hopefully, the knight of he laughing tree as well

Or maybe Jojen is going to help Bran "see" it for himself. The journey to help Bran realize his potential and how to harness his abilities results in his being able to see the rebellion / Tower of Joy for himself and that's how it will be revealed.

really, really doubt this, though. this would require casting a lot of roles.

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This is how I feel. I think that the producers are saving the tower of joy scene for when Bran begins his training and we see his visions.

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If so I hope it's done similarly to Bran's dream of the ocean coming to Winterfel in season 2. All symbolic... he can basically recite the prose for Ned's dream from book 1.

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Great topic. I hadn't considered the implications of Jojen's comment until now, and I'm starting to think there is a high probabability of a flash back to the Tower of Joy. While readers have a solid background to support any big reveal, the TV audience will likely need visual aids, specifically a flashback.

Maybe we get part this season, at least as much as revealed thus far in reading, but not the whole story.

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While readers have a solid background to support any big reveal, the TV audience will likely need visual aids, specifically a flashback.

Maybe we get part this season, at least as much as revealed thus far in reading, but not the whole story.

Exactly what I was thinking as well. We (readers) have the foundation to support this thought/reveal, but the TV audience wouldn't get it without a visual representation of some sort. Not necessarily a big cast of characters to enact an entire rebellion scene, but just a flash of the moment Howlands saves Ned, and then something else suggesting/revealing R + L = J.

Of course not this season, but that's just my silly prediction of where Bran's character may go over the course of the next several seasons.

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Maybe I'm just off on this, but doesn't there have to be a tree somewhere to actually "see" anything? It seems like, in the book, Bran see's things in the Weirwood forest?

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Yeah, now that I think about it, this could realy work well. The problem with how the books are set up is that there's really no good way to get some of this information across via Ned Stark's internal monologues, and perhaps even more importantly, with Ned out of the picture, choosing to follow the books strictly in this respect would have the effect of dropping the subplot after the first season, which could cause confusion if it does, indeed, prove to be important later on. See, it works fine in book form when you can really reach way, way back for a chekhov's gun, because of the level of analysis that readers of a book series go through in the process, but in television, dropping a subplot only to pick it back up in like 6 or 7 years is going to throw viewers for a bit of a loop.

So, keep an eye out for any casting calls for Rhaegar Targaryen or Arthur Dayne, because that means we're about to take a stroll down Flashback Avenue.

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I for one hope and expect everyone who believes in the ToJ theories will be proved wrong.

I almost think GRRM would do it on purpose to stymie all the fans.

In my experience -- when fans have been so certain of 1 theory or another - they rarely have been right.

And I didn;t read this scene as leading towards any type of significant reveal of the ToJ. Just a 1-liner teaser that will likely be unaddressed for a long long time.

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IF they were going to do a flashback to the tower of joy they should have done it during the first season when the most important character in that scene was alive. Ned Stark has the quick cut scene of it in A game of thrones. (Below). Without meeting Howland Reed I don't believe a cut scene of the Tower of Joy will be seen.

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell. “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.” “I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne. “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends."

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So, keep an eye out for any casting calls for Rhaegar Targaryen or Arthur Dayne, because that means we're about to take a stroll down Flashback Avenue.

this is so unlikely though. they way money is stretched on this show and characters are reluctantly introduced. they are just simply not going to cast multiple parts and bring back sean bean to do something they do with a one paragraph story. they arent going to have all the dialogue. just the basic factors at play

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this is so unlikely though. they way money is stretched on this show and characters are reluctantly introduced. they are just simply not going to cast multiple parts and bring back sean bean to do something they do with a one paragraph story. they arent going to have all the dialogue. just the basic factors at play

I think it would be a possibility to bring back beloved characters. Even if it is only in one scene.

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I for one hope and expect everyone who believes in the ToJ theories will be proved wrong.

I almost think GRRM would do it on purpose to stymie all the fans.

In my experience -- when fans have been so certain of 1 theory or another - they rarely have been right.

And I didn;t read this scene as leading towards any type of significant reveal of the ToJ. Just a 1-liner teaser that will likely be unaddressed for a long long time.

Loads of people on this site were certain that Aegon was alive amongst other guesses that have been right in my limited time here. And in other series, WOT fans basically predicted everything that ever happened in the books, and every non-Ass-Pull (i.e not related to the Hallows which were an awful device) twist in Harry Potter to name another couple. Changing a plot just to spite people who guessed it is so petty, I'm sure GRRM won't do it. Not that I'm certain that R+L=J but whatever the things that lead to it in the books as a vaild conclusion need to be explained away if it isn't true, and in a credible way. It's just very hard to make truly unpredictable twists without refusing any foreshadowing (an Ass-Pull, generally seen as poor writing) in a medium as reliant on themes and foreshadowing and as scrutable (if that's a word) as literature, so lots of accurate fan theories will constantly be produced, especially with a fan base as active and interactive as this one

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I thought it was really interesting that they included the Tower of Joy reference in Jojen's dialogue with Bran. Martin himself rarely gave breadcrumb hints without some sort of significance later in the storytelling so I have to wonder if this too was not a nod at the book readers in anticipation of reveals yet to come about that event. Whether or not they actually cast / play out the scene doesn't matter so much as whether or not they're actually going to delve into the history before GoT started in the show, and if so ... WHY would they unless there's a very significantly important reason to do so? It would have to be so significant it changes our previous thinking about the plot entirely (as is theorized in the R+L-J debates).

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thought so too. during the moment, i really thought he was about to tell him then and there. i do think he will eventually tell the story, now. hopefully, the knight of he laughing tree as well

really, really doubt this, though. this would require casting a lot of roles.

I don't think so. He could see things in quick flashes or have the vision within his head , and only speak of some of the things that he saw, without an extra scene being shot.

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I have no idea. I don't know what GRRM is planning on doing with Bran's storyline. No clue. The rest of the characters I have some guesses at but I think the whole storyline of the three eyed raven is just weird.

I have noticed that D&D tend to do a lot of foreshadowing in the show, and since GRRM told them how he intends for the story to end, I hope they don't try to foreshadow the 6th and 7th books which we haven't read yet. I can spot foreshadowing from a distance and I hope they don't ruin the story for us.

I do like the idea of Bran being able to figure out the Tower of Joy on his own since it would give him something to do in the story. I am still looking forward to Howland finally entering the story though!

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Great topic. I hadn't considered the implications of Jojen's comment until now, and I'm starting to think there is a high probabability of a flash back to the Tower of Joy. While readers have a solid background to support any big reveal, the TV audience will likely need visual aids, specifically a flashback.

Maybe we get part this season, at least as much as revealed thus far in reading, but not the whole story.

As soon as Jojen said that I was like, well, we are going to see something through him down the road. Interesting.

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