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Ser Milo of House Mog

(BOOK SPOILER) TOWER OF JOY

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I don't get how Jojen could have seen what happened at the ToJ. Green dreams are prophetic dreams of what is to come. I'm not even sure if show Jojen has the ability to access weirwood trees, but I don't think there are any at the ToJ.

Jojen doesn't even have the ability to see through the wierwoods in the books....if he saw the rebellion, which was such a pivotal point in weserosi history...he had to se what happend to his father and Ned....being that Lyanna was one of the driving forces behind the rebellion.I think this is just a mechanism for the revealing of John's true parantage to the readers.....and the the viewers as well for that matter. The only viable way for the reveal would be for Bran to see it through one or Neds prayers or confessions to the trees.....perhaps the Reeds will be involved in getting the rest of westerosi to believe it....but it has to be Bran that discovers Neds secret....

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Jojen doesn't even have the ability to see through the wierwoods in the books....

Jojen doesn't have access to the trees, nor do I think he has the power to control what he sees. He just sees, kinda like Mel. So Jojen happened to see parts of the Rebellion over the years.

Bran on the other hand will be able to control his vision/warging and eventually escape the trees in order to see throughout the realm/earth

I understand he doesnt have access to the trees in the book. What Im saying is, if they didnt give Jojen the ability to see through the weirwood trees on the show, how did he see any of this? Green dreams arent of the past, they are prophecy dreams of the future.

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I don't know that we can get our arms around what the limits of prophecy are. I think there are less limits to that in GRRM's world since it is more based on mysticism or magical properties. If one is gifted enough to see things that might yet happen it is not a stretch to suggest that they can see things in the past. If the laws of physics are somewhat the same there we can say that the concept of time-space will suggest that from the perspective of the universe the events of the future is just as real as the events in the past.

What I wanna know is how would the Wierwood know what is going on in the tower of Joy to be able to remember..... bet they were peeping in the window or something

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I don't know that we can get our arms around what the limits of prophecy are. I think there are less limits to that in GRRM's world since it is more based on mysticism or magical properties. If one is gifted enough to see things that might yet happen it is not a stretch to suggest that they can see things in the past. If the laws of physics are somewhat the same there we can say that the concept of time-space will suggest that from the perspective of the universe the events of the future is just as real as the events in the past.

What I wanna know is how would the Wierwood know what is going on in the tower of Joy to be able to remember..... bet they were peeping in the window or something

Im going by what the wiki says a green dream is and it says it is a prophecy of things to come.

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So maybe Jojen has seen some prophecy of something Jon Snow is destined to do in the future and in seeing this in his green dream he puts two and two together that R+L=J

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A flashback to the ToJ would be cool, and if they can't get Sean Bean to act they could always use some clips from the Fellowship of the Rings. Boromir could be a younger Ned and Aragorn the shaggy bog devil Reed. That would be quality HBO television we've all come to enjoy.

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I understand he doesnt have access to the trees in the book. What Im saying is, if they didnt give Jojen the ability to see through the weirwood trees on the show, how did he see any of this? Green dreams arent of the past, they are prophecy dreams of the future.

Jojen states in that scene that it's ANY WHEN. Past. Present. Future. That is now established canon in the series per Jojen Reed. He never used the phrase "green dream."

If you have an issue that it's "not how it is in the books", you need to get past that personal disappointment. :)

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Jojen states in that scene that it's ANY WHEN. Past. Present. Future. That is now established canon in the series per Jojen Reed. He never used the phrase "green dream."

If you have an issue that it's "not how it is in the books", you need to get past that personal disappointment. :)

I'm sorry that you got the impression that I was disappointed. Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I didn't see it posted here or remember it stated by Jojen that it was this way and wasn't sure if they decided to make him a greenseer. That's kinda why I said I don't understand how and said I was going off what the wiki states. Basically, the answer is, they changed it. Thanks for your help though. :)

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I'm sorry that you got the impression that I was disappointed. Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I didn't see it posted here or remember it stated by Jojen that it was this way and wasn't sure if they decided to make him a greenseer. That's kinda why I said I don't understand how and said I was going off what the wiki states. Basically, the answer is, they changed it. Thanks for your help though. :)

They changed it but there's also the potential that they'll explain Jojen versus Bran's abilities a bit more in the coming episodes.

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I'm sorry that you got the impression that I was disappointed. Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I didn't see it posted here or remember it stated by Jojen that it was this way and wasn't sure if they decided to make him a greenseer. That's kinda why I said I don't understand how and said I was going off what the wiki states. Basically, the answer is, they changed it. Thanks for your help though. :)

YAY! :D I'm so glad you're not disappointed! Seriously. There's been so much of that around here it's getting depressing. :)

So... thank you DVR:

Jojen: (referring to Summer) You can get inside his head, see through his eyes.

Bran: Only when I'm asleep.

Jojen: Well that's how it begins until you learn to control it. You're a warg.

Bran: It's not just wolves. Sometimes in my dreams....

Jojen: The three-eyed raven?

Bran: You've seen it?

Jojen: We saw it together. You haven't forgotten?

Bran: Does it have anything to do with warging?

Jojen: No, the raven is something different. Something deeper. The raven brings The Sight.

Bran: Seeing things that haven't happened yet.

Jojen: Or things that happened long before you were born, or things that are happening right now, thousands of miles away.

Then Meera and Osha have a chat, and Bran and Jojen start talking about the rebellion.

They changed it but there's also the potential that they'll explain Jojen versus Bran's abilities a bit more in the coming episodes.

:agree:

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yeahh they made it Jojens abilities a little confusing .....being that the reeds and Bran never met where they wore originally supposed to meet and thats in Winterfell during the harvest....seriously...what are the odds of 2 teenagers find Bran inthe middle of the forest trying to make their way to the wall...It's funny how they just show up out of the blue.....having ht em leaave together from Winterfell would have been the most believable turn of events....

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Jojen states in that scene that it's ANY WHEN. Past. Present. Future. That is now established canon in the series per Jojen Reed. He never used the phrase "green dream."

If you have an issue that it's "not how it is in the books", you need to get past that personal disappointment. :)

I'm not disapointed...this is how the producers and writers want the show to progress and obviously Martin gives them creative liscense to change the plot around a little bit....most of the chages are pretty good and don't deviate from the original plot that much....but some are not ...the change they made with Cat about Jon for example is just hideous ....everybody knows she couldn't wait to get rid of him and felt no guilt at all about it.

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Howland Reed has one thing, ONE THING. Without that one thing he is just any other character.

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when Jojen says: "your father told you about the rebellion? mine never did, but I've seen it..."

I think that the implication is that (in the show, not in the books of course) he knows what really happened at the TOJ, and probably about Jon's parentage

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