College Basketball: There's always next year

[Greywolf2375]

But let's talk about it!

Lets!

Duke looks...shaky...for next year.

Losing their top three scorers, top two 3pt shooters and top two rebounders.

While they still have an M. Plumlee on the roster, we'll need to see if he is going to follow in Mason's footsteps or a mason's footsteps. Size, top rebounder, 2nd leading scorer and court leadership gone.

Guards have been their strongsuit for a while and will need to be since - as things stand now - they will have one player 6'10 or above.

Make the tourney? yeah. Make the round of 32? yeah. Make early summer plans? yeah.

[RedEyedGhost]

Lets!

Duke looks...shaky...for next year.

Losing their top three scorers, top two 3pt shooters and top two rebounders.

But you do also have one of the top freshman in the country coming in, so it's not all bad.

While they still have an M. Plumlee on the roster, we'll need to see if he is going to follow in Mason's footsteps or a mason's footsteps. Size, top rebounder, 2nd leading scorer and court leadership gone.

Guards have been their strongsuit for a while and will need to be since - as things stand now - they will have one player 6'10 or above.

Make the tourney? yeah. Make the round of 32? yeah. Make early summer plans? yeah.

That would be my biggest worry if I were a Duke fan. Do you think K will bring in a big man to coach the big men now that there's an opening on the staff?

KU will be fun to watch next season, we're losing our entire starting five - unless McLemore's press conference today is to say he's actually returning (it won't be). We've got two players that are virtual locks for the starting line up: Perry Ellis at the four, and Naadir Tharpe at the one. Everything else is up in the air, but we've got a lot of talent coming in - not Kentucky talent, but this is probably the recruiting class I'm most excited about since Chalmers, Rush, and Wright. Part of the reason I'm so excited is we've now got shooters!! After this year's woeful perimeter shooting I'm really looking forward to some kids that can stretch the defense and open up the middle.

[Rhom]

This year's rotation for the champions classic is KU v Duke isn't it?

ETA: the projections I've seen lately have McLemore as 1st overall. I don't see any way possible he returns.

[RedEyedGhost]

This year's rotation for the champions classic is KU v Duke isn't it?

ETA: the projections I've seen lately have McLemore as 1st overall. I don't see any way possible he returns.

Yes, and neither do I.

[Maithanet]

Well congrats to Louisville on their win. It was an exciting game, and mercifully free of any obvious game deciding calls (the foul on Burke's block of Siva was the wrong call, but hardly pivotal).

I will say that I didn't think that any team could win a championship with their best player playing so poorly in the championship game. Smith was awful all game, and yet Siva, Hancock and Behanan picked up all the slack on offense. Very impressive performance.

I know I'm preaching to the choir when I rail against the "amateurism" of NCAA sports, but Siva is really a fantastic example of why college players need to be paid. He has been great for the Cards for four years now, he led them to two Final Fours, two Big East Championships and the 2013 national championship. Yet his skills don't really translate to the NBA, so he's unlikely to even be a second round pick (and those guys rarely make it in the league anyway). So the amount of money that Siva made Louisville? Millions? Tens of Millions? The amount that Siva can make for himself playing basketball? Very very little. Maybe he can play for a while in the lower leagues or in Europe or something, but that is often pretty subsistence living. I remember reading a WaPo story about Lonnie Baxter (of Maryland's 2002 championship fame) and he was struggling in the very lowest of minor league basketball, he was paid something like 20k a year plus free meals at Chick-fil-A. Yes the story discussed how difficult it is for a professional athlete to get by on a fast-food diet.

But still, congrats Louisville.

[Rhom]

Well congrats to Louisville on their win. It was an exciting game, and mercifully free of any obvious game deciding calls (the foul on Burke's block of Siva was the wrong call, but hardly pivotal).

I will say that I didn't think that any team could win a championship with their best player playing so poorly in the championship game. Smith was awful all game, and yet Siva, Hancock and Behanan picked up all the slack on offense. Very impressive performance.

I know I'm preaching to the choir when I rail against the "amateurism" of NCAA sports, but Siva is really a fantastic example of why college players need to be paid. He has been great for the Cards for four years now, he led them to two Final Fours, two Big East Championships and the 2013 national championship. Yet his skills don't really translate to the NBA, so he's unlikely to even be a second round pick (and those guys rarely make it in the league anyway). So the amount of money that Siva made Louisville? Millions? Tens of Millions? The amount that Siva can make for himself playing basketball? Very very little. Maybe he can play for a while in the lower leagues or in Europe or something, but that is often pretty subsistence living. I remember reading a WaPo story about Lonnie Baxter (of Maryland's 2002 championship fame) and he was struggling in the very lowest of minor league basketball, he was paid something like 20k a year plus free meals at Chick-fil-A. Yes the story discussed how difficult it is for a professional athlete to get by on a fast-food diet.

But still, congrats Louisville.

Wonder what he ate on Sundays...

ETA: (For those that don't have Chick Fil A in their area; all their restaurants are closed on Sunday.)

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

Well congrats to Louisville on their win. It was an exciting game, and mercifully free of any obvious game deciding calls (the foul on Burke's block of Siva was the wrong call, but hardly pivotal).

I will say that I didn't think that any team could win a championship with their best player playing so poorly in the championship game. Smith was awful all game, and yet Siva, Hancock and Behanan picked up all the slack on offense. Very impressive performance.

I know I'm preaching to the choir when I rail against the "amateurism" of NCAA sports, but Siva is really a fantastic example of why college players need to be paid. He has been great for the Cards for four years now, he led them to two Final Fours, two Big East Championships and the 2013 national championship. Yet his skills don't really translate to the NBA, so he's unlikely to even be a second round pick (and those guys rarely make it in the league anyway). So the amount of money that Siva made Louisville? Millions? Tens of Millions? The amount that Siva can make for himself playing basketball? Very very little. Maybe he can play for a while in the lower leagues or in Europe or something, but that is often pretty subsistence living. I remember reading a WaPo story about Lonnie Baxter (of Maryland's 2002 championship fame) and he was struggling in the very lowest of minor league basketball, he was paid something like 20k a year plus free meals at Chick-fil-A. Yes the story discussed how difficult it is for a professional athlete to get by on a fast-food diet.

But still, congrats Louisville.

Agreed.

Some of that NCAA strangeness was demonstrated today when the men's basketball team could not go down to New Orleans to support the women's. Sometimes the rules create results that really make you scratch your head, especially considering how much money was made off of all of these young athletes this weekend.

And also apologies for my extended post, but it was 27 years in the making. I had the joy of being 10 years old and experiencing the 1986 win. It left an indelible mark in my mind, heart and memory. I tried to leave a little of that last night for my kids. But they are much younger so only time will tell.

[Rhom]

Agreed.

Some of that NCAA strangeness was demonstrated today when the men's basketball team could not go down to New Orleans to support the women's. Sometimes the rules create results that really make you scratch your head, especially considering how much money was made off of all of these young athletes this weekend.

And also apologies for my extended post, but it was 27 years in the making. I had the joy of being 10 years old and experiencing the 1986 win. It left an indelible mark in my mind, heart and memory. I tried to leave a little of that last night for my kids. But they are much younger so only time will tell.

I can see both sides of the NCAA's decision for the men attending the women's game. Every UofL student does not have the opportunity to fly to New Orleans on a private jet to attend the ladies' game, therefore it would be an impermissible benefit for the men. It seems extreme, but is actually a bit more clear than some of the other muddled cases they get involved with.

ETA: Okay seriously... how in the world do you make a gif small enough to fit the 50kb max size for the forum?!!? I found this one which would seem to be about as small a loop of the incident as could be made, but it is still too large.

[Rhom]

In response to our discussion, here's USA Today's pre-pre-pre-season Top 25.

1. UK

2. Duke

3. UNC

4. UofL

5. Michigan State

6. Florida

7. Arizona

8. Marquette

9. Syracuse

10.Memphis

11.Wichita State

12.Kansas

13.Ohio State

14.Colorado

15.Oregon

16.Iowa

17.Villanova

18.VCU

19.Virginia

20.Georgetown

21.Gonzaga

22.New Mexico

23.Indiana

24.Michigan

25.Baylor

As always there are things to nitpick. The one that jumps out the most to me is Kansas no longer being considered top dog in the state... and its not Kansas State that is ranked higher! :lol: I don't see any way possible that they finish the season that way. I think this year for Kansas will be a lot like the year after the title. (Wasn't that right REG?) When they were predicted out of the top 25 by some preseason polls and then Self had them right back up there in the top 5 by season's end again.

Indiana and Michigan are obviously taking a hit. Who knows how long it will take Crean to build back up to this year's level again?!!? Ditto Beilein since he has always taken the longer approach by taking guys like Burke who had originally committed to Penn State and turned him into the player of the year.

I think Gonzaga will finish higher than 21, but more because I just assume they'll dominate their league again just like this year.

The article makes some assumptions about UofL, but I think Smith will go and I think Dieng will as well. There was some talk earlier this year from Pitino that made it sound almost like a sure thing.

ETA: First... I will reiterate my feelings that Westeros needs one server for the TV show and another server for everything else!!!!! :tantrum:

Second... Looks like we were correct on the first round of early entrants. McLemore and Russ Smith are among those leaving early for the draft.

[Greywolf2375]

In response to our discussion, here's USA Today's pre-pre-pre-season Top 25.

1. UK

2. Duke

3. UNC

4. UofL

5. Michigan State

6. Florida

7. Arizona

8. Marquette

9. Syracuse

10.Memphis

11.Wichita State

12.Kansas

13.Ohio State

14.Colorado

15.Oregon

16.Iowa

17.Villanova

18.VCU

19.Virginia

20.Georgetown

21.Gonzaga

22.New Mexico

23.Indiana

24.Michigan

25.Baylor

interesting...here is the CBS Sports 25+1:

UK

MSU

UL

AZ

MI

FL

Duke

NC

OSU

Marquette

Cuse

CO

WI

VCU

UCLA

Mem

Gonzaga

TN

ND

KU

Harvard

VA

IU

Boise State

Wichita State

FSU

[Greywolf2375]

So the UConn women completely cruised to championship #8 last night, taking apart the UL women by 33. Before the game I thought that even if they won, Baylor was probably still the best team this year. Nope...not with the way UConn played their last three games. While it would not have been a 30pt blowout, UConn last night would have taken Baylor by double digits.

They're losing only one key player and have - again- what some consider the best player in the game with to be sophomore Breanna Stewart. Looks like next year Geno may break the tie with Pat Summit for most titles.

[Rhom]

Kentucky inks another recruit for this year. Dominique Hawkins certainly isn't nationally known like the 6 Mickey D's boys on the team, but he was Kentucky's Mr. Basketball and is a point guard with a lot of potential. He and fellow Kentuckian Derek Willis in this recruiting class are unlikely to see much playing time this year, but I think it evidences that Calipari is unwilling to play future seasons with teams as shallow as this one. Hawkins and Willis have the potential to stick around four years and be leaders in their junior and senior seasons.

Here's another interesting point. Until Archie Goodwin made his (somewhat) unexpected announcement of his decision to turn pro last week; there was no real assurance that a scholarship would be available for Hawkins, and he has repeatedly said he would not walk-on. However, we are currently in the middle of a dead period for bball recruiting... which means that he's had a scholarship offer in hand for at least a couple of weeks now. All rather bizarre in the twisty turny world of college recruiting. :dunno:

So the UConn women completely cruised to championship #8 last night, taking apart the UL women by 33. Before the game I thought that even if they won, Baylor was probably still the best team this year. Nope...not with the way UConn played their last three games. While it would not have been a 30pt blowout, UConn last night would have taken Baylor by double digits.

They're losing only one key player and have - again- what some consider the best player in the game with to be sophomore Breanna Stewart. Looks like next year Geno may break the tie with Pat Summit for most titles.

Yeah, I watched some of that and was even excited early when Louisville took a 14-10 lead... then I blinked and it was 29-14! :lol: UConn is a juggernaut of amazing prowess. And I think you're right, they look loaded for bear last night.

A shout out to the Kentucky Hoops team (that's what they call women's basketball), they have the reigning Gatorade Player of the year coming in. Makayla Epps plays for Marion County (Ky) High School... if the name sounds familiar, its because she is the daughter of former Kentucky national championship point guard Anthony Epps.

[MisterOJ]

Kentucky inks another recruit for this year. Dominique Hawkins certainly isn't nationally known like the 6 Mickey D's boys on the team, but he was Kentucky's Mr. Basketball and is a point guard with a lot of potential. He and fellow Kentuckian Derek Willis in this recruiting class are unlikely to see much playing time this year, but I think it evidences that Calipari is unwilling to play future seasons with teams as shallow as this one. Hawkins and Willis have the potential to stick around four years and be leaders in their junior and senior seasons.

Here's another interesting point. Until Archie Goodwin made his (somewhat) unexpected announcement of his decision to turn pro last week; there was no real assurance that a scholarship would be available for Hawkins, and he has repeatedly said he would not walk-on. However, we are currently in the middle of a dead period for bball recruiting... which means that he's had a scholarship offer in hand for at least a couple of weeks now. All rather bizarre in the twisty turny world of college recruiting. :dunno:

I suspect Calipari knew he would have to make a hard decision if someone didn't else didn't leave and both Hawkins and Wiggins signed. It kinda sucks, but it's a good problem to have.

A shout out to the Kentucky Hoops team (that's what they call women's basketball), they have the reigning Gatorade Player of the year coming in. Makayla Epps plays for Marion County (Ky) High School... if the name sounds familiar, its because she is the daughter of former Kentucky national championship point guard Anthony Epps.

Kentucky Hoops is the stupidest fucking thing ever. I hated Lady Kats, but that was even better than Kentucky Hoops. Ugh.

As for Epps, he and I were in school at the same time. He was arrested by the campus cops his senior year for getting into a big brawl during a flag football game. I was playing in one on the field next to his and got to see part of it. :)

[Rhom]

Kentucky Hoops is the stupidest fucking thing ever. I hated Lady Kats, but that was even better than Kentucky Hoops. Ugh.

Not a fan either. Some of this branding is getting out of control. Although, I will say it was better than my Yellow Book rep coming in yesterday and telling me that they are now hibu. (Whatever the hell that means...)

As for Epps, he and I were in school at the same time. He was arrested by the campus cops his senior year for getting into a big brawl during a flag football game. I was playing in one on the field next to his and got to see part of it. :)

Your brush with fame!

[RedEyedGhost]

In the realm of, damn these kids are dumb:

Well at least most of them only have to remain eligible for one semester :lmao: How did that one get accepted to Duke?

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist couldn't beat a 49 year old Jordan, and four of those kids think they could beat him in his prime. :drunk:

If UK doesn't win the national championship next year, it will be the biggest failure of any team in any sport ever! I mean come on, you've got a guy how could beat arguably the best player ever in his prime, you've got his twin brother who is just as good, and you've got a center who can also beat the Jordan. You shouldn't win a game by less than 30 points all season with that line up :P

Iowa State is in the news again. I don't understand how that qualifies as a "major infraction."

ETA: So KU technically loses all starters assuming McLemore leaves right? Four others were all seniors?

Yep. Three of the four were fifth year seniors.

As always there are things to nitpick. The one that jumps out the most to me is Kansas no longer being considered top dog in the state... and its not Kansas State that is ranked higher! :lol:

They will probably print t-shirts. They did the last time they were ranked ahead of us, and I think that lasted all of one week :lol:

I don't see any way possible that they finish the season that way. I think this year for Kansas will be a lot like the year after the title. (Wasn't that right REG?) When they were predicted out of the top 25 by some preseason polls and then Self had them right back up there in the top 5 by season's end again.

Yep. And that's why I wouldn't trade Coach Self for anybody.

Indiana and Michigan are obviously taking a hit. Who knows how long it will take Crean to build back up to this year's level again?!!? Ditto Beilein since he has always taken the longer approach by taking guys like Burke who had originally committed to Penn State and turned him into the player of the year.

I think Gonzaga will finish higher than 21, but more because I just assume they'll dominate their league again just like this year.

The article makes some assumptions about UofL, but I think Smith will go and I think Dieng will as well. There was some talk earlier this year from Pitino that made it sound almost like a sure thing.

ETA: First... I will reiterate my feelings that Westeros needs one server for the TV show and another server for everything else!!!!! :tantrum:

Second... Looks like we were correct on the first round of early entrants. McLemore and Russ Smith are among those leaving early for the draft.

What the hell is Smith thinking? These kids realize there are only 30 draft spots that pay guaranteed money right? Indiana and Michigan are going to get decimated by the draft. Freaking Phil Pressey is hiring an agent :lol:

Is the lady from Gonzaga sticking around? If so, they should be pretty darn good again next year. Especially after bowing out so early this season.

Hmmm...and I think that one has UCLA too high. I think they're really going to need a new player to make an impact, and they don't have much of a class right now. There's one pretty big recruit still out there who has them on his list (rated around the 20th player in the country). I don't know who is going to take over for Drew at PG either. I can't believe they'd put Anderson back there. I know he played some PG for Hurley's dad in high school, but he doesn't seem like a PG anymore.

Can Alford Jr. play point? He sure can shoot it.

Kentucky inks another recruit for this year. Dominique Hawkins certainly isn't nationally known like the 6 Mickey D's boys on the team, but he was Kentucky's Mr. Basketball and is a point guard with a lot of potential. He and fellow Kentuckian Derek Willis in this recruiting class are unlikely to see much playing time this year, but I think it evidences that Calipari is unwilling to play future seasons with teams as shallow as this one. Hawkins and Willis have the potential to stick around four years and be leaders in their junior and senior seasons.

Here's another interesting point. Until Archie Goodwin made his (somewhat) unexpected announcement of his decision to turn pro last week; there was no real assurance that a scholarship would be available for Hawkins, and he has repeatedly said he would not walk-on. However, we are currently in the middle of a dead period for bball recruiting... which means that he's had a scholarship offer in hand for at least a couple of weeks now. All rather bizarre in the twisty turny world of college recruiting. :dunno:

The recruits can still contact the coaching staff during quiet periods, yes? He could have also had a "conditional" offer, saying if so and so leave, then we'll take you.

[Ramsay B.]

Haha youngins these days. I would put money on Jordan against these kids at age 50, in his prime is just silly. Thanks for the link, I needed a good laugh.

[Maithanet]

Haha youngins these days. I would put money on Jordan against these kids at age 50, in his prime is just silly. Thanks for the link, I needed a good laugh.

There's confidence and then there's just bizzaro world. They could at least qualify it with "I could beat Jordan when he entered college". Which is also almost assuredly untrue, but at least people won't laugh at you. A high school student saying "I'm significantly better than the best player in history" is...yeah, good times.

[RedEyedGhost]

Tarik Black of Memphis has the world at his fingertips right now - 6'9" 260 college graduate with one year of eligibility left, so now he's now a free agent. With lots of interest - according to Goodman 27 teams are already showing interest in adding him for his final season:

Tarik Black drawing interest from Duke, Kansas, Marquette, Miami, Tenn., FSU, UMass, 20 others -- per his AAU coach Eric Robinson.

If he comes to KU, we'll have White, Greene, and Black :lol:

[MisterOJ]

I don't really like that rule - despite the fact that Kentucky utilized it this past season.

[RedEyedGhost]

I don't really like that rule - despite the fact that Kentucky utilized it this past season.

Why? Especially as a UK fan, you should be used to players only coming in for one year :P

I don't mind it, but KU has never been effected by it either way in basketball (we did take advantage of it last season in football... not that it helped).

Good question. I don't know enough about him.

Also, Jordan Adams played much more on the wing, but perhaps he can handle it a bit? I don't really know what the plan is.

Arizona seems to really need a PG too, or at least I also don't know the plan there. They have plenty of people at other positions. Both of those schools really needed to get this GP Jabari Bird that committed to Cal.

Oddly enough Arizona has two PGs committed from the 2014 class - a five star 5'8" kid, and a two star 6'2". I'm betting they're hoping the former will grow a little bit.

For UCLA Allerik Freeman is a bit of a combo guard, so if all else fails he can probably do a bit of those duties (if Alford retains him that is). After watching a team without a PG all season this year, they'll definitely not be a great team next year.