[Book spoilers] Jaime & Brienne

[Hotpie4theironthrone]

Nikolaj nails everything about Jaime except the fighting. His fighting is just awkward and clumsy.

I'd agree with you there, i loved his sword fight Eddard in season 1 but the one against Brienne was a let down

[shiola]

His wrists and, I believe, ankles were shackled. He's supposed to have been a captive for a while so he is weak. I think it was intentional that he wasn't at his best. There was no reason for him to be as good as in season 1.

[SerMudz]

Yeah a big point was made in the books about how, despite being so weakened after his captivity and also chained at the hands, Jaime still gave Brienne the fight of her life. I was really gutted this didnt come across at all on the show. It just made Jaime seem like a fraud considering his comments about only 3 men in the kingdoms possibly being able to stand a chance against him in a fight - the TV fans will just think he's all talk now.

[SerArthurHeath]

I'd watch the Jaime and Brienne show, no doubt about it. Another thing worrying me about too much condensing of the books is......the fact that we still haven't heard the song The Bear and The Maiden Fair. I think it's really important but they're still beating us over the head with The Rains of Castamere, not that I don't love that, too.

They have hinted at some of the issues about Jaime's feelings and reasonings on killing The Mad King the past two seasons, but I do think he does need to do that damn good ramble in the tub.

The actors are doing a fantastic job on the two characters, but I do fear that the dropping of The Mummers, not hearing The Bear and The Maiden Fair, and too much dropping of dialogue between them might be a problem. I hope I'm wrong and perhaps now at their capture by Mr. Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do......more of that will shine through.

It'd be great if one of Locke's men has a lisp, though......I so want to hear Thathfireths.

On another thread someone said one of the episodes has a rock version of the Bear and the Maiden Fair in it so I think we will hear it in the show too

[Katydid]

His wrists and, I believe, ankles were shackled. He's supposed to have been a captive for a while so he is weak. I think it was intentional that he wasn't at his best. There was no reason for him to be as good as in season 1.

This.

I thought Nik played it beautifully, and conveyed Jaime's weakened state. He's been too long imprisoned, and is out of shape/practice. The chains on his hands didn't help.

There's a moment when he drops the sword point to the ground and is resting, you can hear him panting - - that's straight from the book, Jaime takes little breaks. And when he tries to body-slam her and ends up bouncing off and falling against the wall, he gets a perfect "oh shit" look on his face, that's Jaime's realization moment. In the book, he thinks to himself "she is stronger than I am." I thought Nik showed that emotion perfectly. He's panting and looking a little chilled to the bone at the knowledge that he's going to lose the fight; Brienne is standing perfectly still, barely breathing, hasn't even broken a sweat. It was very well done.

I do miss hearing him calling her "wench", though, and can't understand why the writers chose to ignore that. Disappointing that they decided to drop one of the most endearing nicknames in history. :(

[RememberTheNorth]

Is it confirmed that this song will be played at the end of Episode 3? This sounds odd to me because I'd think it would make more sense after the events of the Bear Pit scene, I say this because a lot of viewers will not get the allusion to the Maiden and the Bear because they haven't read the books, this event doesn't happen until later on, so it wouldn't make much sense to have it after the hand scene. But I may feel different after watching it.

[SerArthurHeath]

http://winteriscoming.net/2013/03/indie-rock-band-will-bring-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-to-life/

"EW also reports that they are “sworn to secrecy in regards to how the song will be used,” and that it’s not necessarily where ASOIAF fans might believe it would be sung."

[shiola]

I do miss hearing him calling her "wench", though, and can't understand why the writers chose to ignore that. Disappointing that they decided to drop one of the most endearing nicknames in history. :(

This. :c

[The Flaying Man]

... and over a later scene after that... Apparently.

Yep, I imagine that will be Bolton men singing it then though

[Silverx2]

while i loved the scene, and really enjoyed briennes sort of nonchalant ending of the fight, just like "bitch please" however im worried that they wont take Jamie's hand. At this point in the books Jamie had shaved his head(not done in the show) and in the book the bloody murmers were not flying boltons sigil correct? How is Jamie going to forgive lord Bolton after one of his men cuts off his hand? I find it hard to believe Tywin would give the north to the man that basically crippled his "only son"

[The Flaying Man]

To everyone worrying that Jaime won't lose his hand:

There was a brief shot in the first trailer where, for a split second, you can see a close up of Jaime's stump. It's the shot of him perhaps leaving Harrenhal for KL, and Qyburn can be seen behind him. The sling is visible around his neck, and the stump is obvious.

Look, it's even on this very site!

[Newstar]

Jaime and Brienne are so great in the show. Flawless casting, amazing chemistry, great acting, and the writing is pretty good, too. The reviewers for the first four episodes have praised the Jaime/Brienne stuff to the skies, and it seems like they were spot on. Just amazing.

The fight was less blatantly sexual than in the books (no Jaime wounding Brienne in her upper thigh, no thrashing about in the mud with clothing askew), but it was still great and there was subtext aplenty: Locke calling Brienne "your woman," Jaime saying that fighting "gets the juices flowing" (!!!), etc. etc. I didn't mind Brienne giving Jaime a "drubbing," as one review described it, even if it was a departure from the books, since the show seemed to make it clear that Jaime was worn out very quickly (gasping for breath, on the ropes, etc. etc.). It made sense within the show.

The non-book dialogue about Renly was pretty great, as was Jaime's "We don't get to choose who we love." Hahaha, Jaime, you don't even know how right you are.

Jaime's look of pure joy when he finally had a sword in his hands made me die a little bit on the inside. Noooo.

[teemo]

this is one of the only aspects of the show that i'm almost 100% happy about...they really are PERFECT in their roles. I love that Gwendoline has read the books also. I think that helps a lot. She seems to get her. Jaime just seems exactly like Jaime. Perfect!

But yeah, having no 'wench' is really quite sad.

[Madfunkymonkey]

I was thinking that Brienne was going to chop off Jamie's hand.

[Bolivar]

The fight was sooo underwhelming! I can't get over that the Jaime vs. Ned fight in season 1 was more epic, and Ned's not even supposed to be in their league!

It has nothing to do with Jaime being tired. In the books, even despite being in captivity the last few days, he's still able to fight with superhuman speed and finesse, and is totally blown away (as is the reader) that Brienne is actually in that class along with him. Here, we just saw two actors who clearly know nothing abou swordplay clumsily shift around for a little bit until the Boltons show up.

Definitely a low point in the episode for me. I also think their banter is getting a little over-indulgent.

[teemo]

The fight was sooo underwhelming! I can't get over that the Jaime vs. Ned fight in season 1 was more epic, and Ned's not even supposed to be in their league!

It has nothing to do with Jaime being tired. In the books, even despite being in captivity the last few days, he's still able to fight with superhuman speed and finesse, and is totally blown away (as is the reader) that Brienne is actually in that class along with him. Here, we just saw two actors who clearly know nothing abou swordplay clumsily shift around for a little bit until the Boltons show up.

Definitely a low point in the episode for me. I also think their banter is getting a little over-indulgent.

Good points here. Jaime has to use "fuck" and "cock" all the time to shock viewers..kind of like Ygritte. It's funny a lot of the times, but sometimes it's just too much. Good point about Ned being a match for Jaime too. I forgot about that.

[teemo]

I was thinking that Brienne was going to chop off Jamie's hand.

now that would be a book deviation :lol:

[Currawong]

Jaime was mostly playing with Ned - you could see it in his face. Jaime enjoys a good fight, and I don't think he would have enjoyed just killing Ned so quickly.

As for the J/B fight, those swords are heavy and I agree with Newstar:

The fight was less blatantly sexual than in the books (no Jaime wounding Brienne in her upper thigh, no thrashing about in the mud with clothing askew), but it was still great and there was subtext aplenty: Locke calling Brienne "your woman," Jaime saying that fighting "gets the juices flowing" (!!!), etc. etc. I didn't mind Brienne giving Jaime a "drubbing," as one review described it, even if it was a departure from the books, since the show seemed to make it clear that Jaime was worn out very quickly (gasping for breath, on the ropes, etc. etc.). It made sense within the show.

I agree. What I really loved about the whole scene was the start, where they showed Jaime's sheer joy at having a sword in his hand again and being able to fight, which is going to be at the heart of what happens later. It was also very good at portraying the way his condition quickly gave out, and that he was fighting under the handicap of being manacled. Judging bythe reviews, I don't think TV viewers missed those aspects.

And yes, Bolivar - I know that medieval swords were only a few pounds in weight BUT medieval people were also a lot smaller, if you look at the clothing and the armour, even for well-fed nobility. So if you scale things up to the size of the actors and the swords today, then the slower moving action was far more appropriate. I am SO grateful that we didn't get a typical Hollywood fancy-style swordfight straight from the swashbuckling days of Errol Flynn. That to me would have looked completely unrealistic, with Brienne in armour and weakened Jaime with manacled hands.

Silverx2, I don't think 'bald Jaime' was ever a practical option, because Nikolaj was filming other things during and after shooting Seasons 2 and 3 of GoT. And then he and Gwen had to come back earlier this year, months after all the other S3 filming had finished, to shoot the bearpit stuff in LA with Little Bart. Making Jaime/NCW bald would have created all sorts of continuity issues for both GoT and his other movies, so the GoT writers sensibly dropped that aspect.

[SerArthurHeath]

It varied, looking at the non-spoiler (not unspoiled) thread on TVWOP, some viewers saw that Jaime was badly handicapped, others saw him getting a thrashing and being utterly outclassed by a girl.

[StarkDragon]

To everyone worrying that Jaime won't lose his hand:

There was a brief shot in the first trailer where, for a split second, you can see a close up of Jaime's stump. It's the shot of him perhaps leaving Harrenhal for KL, and Qyburn can be seen behind him. The sling is visible around his neck, and the stump is obvious.

Look, it's even on this very site!

Hey, thanks for the confirm :thumbsup: