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Clariana

[Book spoilers] Jaime & Brienne

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The fight was sooo underwhelming! I can't get over that the Jaime vs. Ned fight in season 1 was more epic, and Ned's not even supposed to be in their league!

It has nothing to do with Jaime being tired. In the books, even despite being in captivity the last few days, he's still able to fight with superhuman speed and finesse, and is totally blown away (as is the reader) that Brienne is actually in that class along with him. Here, we just saw two actors who clearly know nothing abou swordplay clumsily shift around for a little bit until the Boltons show up.

Definitely a low point in the episode for me. I also think their banter is getting a little over-indulgent.

We shouldn't forget also that Brienne being as she is, at least at the beginning of the fight, does not want to kill Jaime or even injure him... Since she must be aware that any hurt to him could put Sansa and Ayra in peril and impair her ability to carry out her pledge to Catelyn.

So we have that Jaime is tired manacled and out of practice and Brienne is resisting giving it her all. This was always going to be a scuffle and not an epic battle.

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Yeah, I thought the fight was fine. It actually felt a lot more genuine than most swordfights on screen, even in this show. You have to figure that not only is Brienne that good, but Jaime is shackled, malnourished, dehydrated, and he's been a prisoner forever so he's out of shape too.

The most important part was how they captured how genuinely happy Jaime was to have a sword back in his hand, how in his element he is in the thick of battle even in overwhelming circumstances. It's gonna make it even sadder when he loses that self-assurance later.

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Nicolaj is perfect as Jaime, still getting used to Brienne though. She just seems harsher and much less innocent than the Brienne I know.

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I love Jaime and Brienne scenes. The actors have such chemistry in interviews you can tell they really just love to give each other grief in real life too and its translating wonderfully on screen. They're just awesome together.

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I liked them too, although I wish Jaime would use the word wench from time to time. :D

Really, they are excellent together.

Definitely agree! Especially with the wanting more use of "wench", though, because one of my very favorite lines from the book is when Jaime jumps in the bear pit and shouts, "Brienne, her name is Brienne!" Without the continued use of "wench" I'm afraid that'll take away it's punch. (AND if they leave it out entirely, I'll throw something at the TV!)

:P

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yeah some really entertaining dialogue and great performances by the two.

Just wish there had been one or two conversations showing Jaime's love for his siblings, and how alive he feels with a sword in his hand, like there was in the book. Maybe they'll come later.

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Definitely agree! Especially with the wanting more use of "wench", though, because one of my very favorite lines from the book is when Jaime jumps in the bear pit and shouts, "Brienne, her name is Brienne!" Without the continued use of "wench" I'm afraid that'll take away it's punch. (AND if they leave it out entirely, I'll throw something at the TV!)

:P

I completely forgot about this! And here I thought people were just being pedantic when they complained about no "wench."

Clearly I need to re-read this book, because that moment was amazing. Hopefully they can do it justice.

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Yeah a big point was made in the books about how, despite being so weakened after his captivity and also chained at the hands, Jaime still gave Brienne the fight of her life. I was really gutted this didnt come across at all on the show. It just made Jaime seem like a fraud considering his comments about only 3 men in the kingdoms possibly being able to stand a chance against him in a fight - the TV fans will just think he's all talk now.

Well.... if we take the leap that one of those 3 men might be Loras Tyrell, then Jaime was not aware that Brienne bested Loras when he was making that boast.

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I also love these two together and the actors are perfect! Watching them will definitely be one of the highlights of this season. But I just want to join in with those who are wondering why they have not had Jaime call Brienne "wench" at all. The wench-kingslayer exchanges are important to their character development as it shows how their feelings change regarding each other when he starts calling her Brienne and she starts calling him Jaime. The scene mentioned above when he jumps into the bear pit is one great example of this and later when he smacks Red Ronnet upside the head is another one. I just don't get why they would leave it out. It's not like it would be hard to write in and besides it's really funny how they start out yelling wench - kingslayer back and forth to each other knowing that it just bugs the heck out of the other one.

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Well.... if we take the leap that one of those 3 men might be Loras Tyrell, then Jaime was not aware that Brienne bested Loras when he was making that boast.

This has been done to death but I don't think Jaime respects Loras' swordsmanship much, he is a tourney knight who is best at jousting. Barristan, the Hound and Gregor/Randyll Tarly would be my guesses.

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The Jaime / Brienne storyline has been adapted very well and is really really enjoyable to watch. One of the best adapted parts of the story so far.

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I also love these two together and the actors are perfect! Watching them will definitely be one of the highlights of this season. But I just want to join in with those who are wondering why they have not had Jaime call Brienne "wench" at all. The wench-kingslayer exchanges are important to their character development as it shows how their feelings change regarding each other when he starts calling her Brienne and she starts calling him Jaime. The scene mentioned above when he jumps into the bear pit is one great example of this and later when he smacks Red Ronnet upside the head is another one. I just don't get why they would leave it out. It's not like it would be hard to write in and besides it's really funny how they start out yelling wench - kingslayer back and forth to each other knowing that it just bugs the heck out of the other one.

ITA, they need to get in some Wench and Kingslayer in the Jaime and Brienne dialogue, and how it changes as their respect and feelings change.

Also, I just wanted to say....I absolutely LOVE Jaime clocking Red Ronnet with his golden hand. I just reread that not too long ago, and it's always a highlight for me to get to read.

Another thing, granted, it'd take awhile, but I just LOVE the parlay with Jaime and The Blackfish later on. I do hope they include some of that. I saw the video HBO posted with new characters and I must say, hearing the actor talk about The Blackfish has given me lots of hope for that character. That negotiation is one of my favorite parts of the books. "Sieges are deadly dull" LOL

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ITA, they need to get in some Wench and Kingslayer in the Jaime and Brienne dialogue, and how it changes as their respect and feelings change.

Also, I just wanted to say....I absolutely LOVE Jaime clocking Red Ronnet with his golden hand. I just reread that not too long ago, and it's always a highlight for me to get to read.

And Jaime does that because Ronnet is disrespecting Brienne's physical appearance, even using the word "wench" - - something Jaime had done from the beginning. It was a great example of the bond that forms between Jaime and Brienne, the respect and even (dare I say it?) affection they develop for one another.

They've got Brienne calling him "Kingslayer" often enough. I just don't understand the loss of the word "wench" from Jaime in these scripts. :(

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Its probably b/c wench is a really awkward word and while its fun reading it, I'm not sure it wouldn't sound kind of silly on screen, and I think they have used the word beast instead of wench. Other examples of this are HAR, for winterfell, etc. Honestly I think D&D have done a pretty good, although not perfect job or weeding out phases/actions that sound/look kind of corny in an eye-rolling way to show watchers, that book readers wouldn't mind.

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Its probably b/c wench is a really awkward word and while its fun reading it, I'm not sure it wouldn't sound kind of silly on screen, and I think they have used the word beast instead of wench. Other examples of this are HAR, for winterfell, etc. Honestly I think D&D have done a pretty good, although not perfect job or weeding out phases/actions that sound/look kind of corny in an eye-rolling way to show watchers, that book readers wouldn't mind.

I don't know, I find it hard to believe they can't squeeze wench in, Seven Save Us..but they certainly don't seem to mind throwing the word cunt in all the friggin time.

And, I'm going to be heartbroken if we don't get lots of HARs out of Tormund. I did notice, not much in the Heh department from The Late Lord Frey, but we'll be seeing lots more of Tormund. I'm hoping for some HAR HAR HAR with Tormund, My fav Man O' The Free Folk.

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Its probably b/c wench is a really awkward word and while its fun reading it, I'm not sure it wouldn't sound kind of silly on screen, and I think they have used the word beast instead of wench.

I agree. For the average TV viewer, "wench" is probably evocative of busty tavern ladies and little else. It's one of those things that works in the books but would never work on screen (much like Renly's Rainbow Guard).

Kind of loved Jaime's flirty delivery of "You move well, for a great beast of a woman." So cute.

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I agree. For the average TV viewer, "wench" is probably evocative of busty tavern ladies and little else.

Did someone mention me?

I am still oohing and aaahing about Jaime/Brienne in the tv series. I fell in love with Jaime at the beginning of book one three and if I was a viewer, I wouldn't be falling in love with him right now. I understand the need to adapt, but the sword fight was underwhelming and staged, and for any casual viewer who had forgotten how Jaime was in season 1, they'd think he was a lame to average fighter. This, of course, makes the upcoming scene about you-know-what lose significance for those viewers.

Having said that, NCW can deliver a quip and the quips they've used for the series have fitted Jaime's personality. They need to really work on the other side of Jaime now - the bathtub scene in Harrenhal, and preferably a couple of others, needs to show there's something behind the (apparently false) bravado and dry quips.

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I don't know, I find it hard to believe they can't squeeze wench in, Seven Save Us..but they certainly don't seem to mind throwing the word cunt in all the friggin time.

And, I'm going to be heartbroken if we don't get lots of HARs out of Tormund. I did notice, not much in the Heh department from The Late Lord Frey, but we'll be seeing lots more of Tormund. I'm hoping for some HAR HAR HAR with Tormund, My fav Man O' The Free Folk.

I can't say too much for the specific word 'wench' but in general it's pretty common to try to balance things that fit for the time period but also give the appropriate reaction to modern viewers.

The great show Deadwood is a great example. There's a ton of swearing in that show and there was a ton of swearing among such people back in the day as well. The difference was that the swearing back then was of the religious kind and the comparatively chocking language today (where the series was likely to be shown) is of the sexual kind, so they switched it to that in order for the viewers to get the more authentic reactions, rather than the most authentic language.

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