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Lord Barristan

(Book Spoilers) Does it feel a bit rushed to you?

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Hey guys,

Storm of Swords is one of my favorite books of all-time and when they said they would be splitting it into two season, I thought for certain this would mean they would fit more in.

My favorite storyline in the book is by far Jaime's. In the book, he and Brienne have 3 full chapter- which a pretty long at that- before they are captured by Lord Vargo. In this season, we were given one scene- that was masterful- and the duel, that was underwhelming. Why not flesh out these two before being captured? I know they had some scenes at the end of last season, but I feel shortchanged on the best duo in the series.

I also love Arya and the Brotherhood without banners. I knwo we can't expect them to cast all the member of the brotherhood, but I really wish they would have kept around Tom O'Sevens AND Thoros. Greenbeard, Lem, the Huntsman and some of the others may have been too much, but certainly Harwin being a Winterfell man should have been included.

And they have already captured the Hound! This takes fairly later in Arya's journey. I hope we get to see more of the brotherhood!

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To be honest, a lot of the Arya misadventures in the book were a bit all over the place if you ask me, for example when they go to see that witch (don't remember her name or when this happened, it's been a while since I've read SoS). But yes, I think the Arya reveal to the Brotherhood and the Hound appearance was a bit lame, except for his line: "Thoros? D'f*ck YOU doing here?!" LOL

Still, though, it makes sense, because if you remember the RW is happening in Episode 9. This is already Episode 2. The Hound still has to fight BD, win, BD has to be brought back to life, the Hound has to kidnap her, and they have to travel to The Twins to see the Stark men slaughtered by Episode 9 at the RW. Plus, I would gladly trade some of the minor Arya stuff for those gold scenes between Arya and the Hound. I am looking forward to that odd couple just as much as Jaime and Brienne.

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I do agree that parts of it feel a bit rushed. We'll see how it plays out, though.

When they said they would split it into two seasons, I also assumed it would build up more slowly.

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episode one seemed really rushed to me.

It was like they were just speeding through it to fit in many story lines and weren't going into depth with a lot of it.

episode two was a bit better but as they only have ten episodes per season it is natural that they will have to cut out a huge amount of stuff just to include the main parts.

but we will see how it pans out. i'm certain that this season will be the one most different from the books due to constraints in episode length and number of episodes in a season

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Yeah, it's rushed because there are too many characters, locations, and events needed to be shown, and the show only got 50-something minutes per episode to cover everything (leaving me wanting more, obviously). There are a lot of great scenes from that book, so as long as they won't leave them out to squeezed Ros in, I'll be okay.

I hope we get to see more of the brotherhood!

I hope so, too. They are my new favorite gang.

Plus, I would gladly trade some of the minor Arya stuff for those gold scenes between Arya and the Hound. I am looking forward to that odd couple just as much as Jaime and Brienne.

The show better not cut my favorite Arya and the Hound scenes - they provide one of the best conversations and interactions from the book. I want to see how Maisie and Rory bring those book scenes on the screen.

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It does feel a bit rushed.

If it is that they are splitting the third book into two seasons, why the haste?

it almost feels like I'm missing scenes and being thrown into something part ways through. I'm not digging the pacing thus far.

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Rushed? The first two episodes are far too slow if you ask me, especially E2. Much of E2 should have been compressed into E1, especially in KL where very little is going on so far.

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Rushed? The first two episodes are far too slow if you ask me, especially E2. Much of E2 should have been compressed into E1, especially in KL where very little is going on so far.

Please no! There was more than enough in Ep 1, and shoving any more storylines into there would have been just totally confusing. D&D already said they decided to move Arya from Ep1 into Ep 2 because there was more than enough in Ep 1. There are so many different storylines now, and so many new characters coming in, that the writers have needed two episodes to remind viewers about existing characters, move all the pieces along into place and introduce the many new characters. NOW they can pick up the pace (which it seems they are going to do as from Ep 3), but if you have read any of the sites where non-book viewers post comments, you will see that there is already some bewilderment about just who is who and what everyone is doing. D&D have to deliver with a mind to TV-only viewers, not to viewers who are familiar with the books, hence the pace of Eps 1 and 2.

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Please no! There was more than enough in Ep 1, and shoving any more storylines into there would have been just totally confusing. D&D already said they decided to move Arya from Ep1 into Ep 2 because there was more than enough in Ep 1. There are so many different storylines now, and so many new characters coming in, that the writers have needed two episodes to remind viewers about existing characters, move all the pieces along into place and introduce the many new characters. NOW they can pick up the pace (which it seems they are going to do as from Ep 3), but if you have read any of the sites where non-book viewers post comments, you will see that there is already some bewilderment about just who is who and what everyone is doing. D&D have to deliver with a mind to TV-only viewers, not to viewers who are familiar with the books, hence the pace of Eps 1 and 2.

I'm not necessarily talking about shoving more locations in to episode 1, I'm talking about progressing the plot in the locations we did get. QOT could have been introduced in E1, we could have found out about Hoster's death, and I've been toying with the idea that they could have had Sam the Slayer at the end of episode 1. That would have meant we could have the small council meeting in E2 (Because I felt that KL was lacking in fan favourites like Tyrion, Tywin and Varys.) and the arrival at Riverrun, and we wouldn't need to see that pointless Sam scene.

By this point in the show the main plot has been established and we don't need to spend these first couple episodes recapping what went before so much. Hitting the ground running would have been much better. Fortunately it seems that S4 will be doing this as it looks likely the PW will be in E2. Getting to the more interesting bits faster wouldn't confuse the average viewers it would engage them so when it comes to catering to the more mainstream audience this would be a good move too.

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It does, a bit.

The Hound already being in Arya's storyline was unexpected, as I thought they'd follow the book more on that one. I wonder if they're planning to change anything in that storyline, because it's different already.

As for Jaime/Brienne, thing is that last season we already got a few scenes of them travelling, so I knew they were going to get captured during the early episodes of season 3. That's fine really, but I do wonder about (show spoiler- episode titles)

the bear pit being as early as episode 7, as the title of the episode seem to suggest. That's early, because the bear pit is right before they get to KL after the PW...

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It does, a bit.

The Hound already being in Arya's storyline was unexpected, as I thought they'd follow the book more on that one. I wonder if they're planning to change anything in that storyline, because it's different already.

As for Jaime/Brienne, thing is that last season we already got a few scenes of them travelling, so I knew they were going to get captured during the early episodes of season 3. That's fine really, but I do wonder about (show spoiler- episode titles)

the bear pit being as early as episode 7, as the title of the episode seem to suggest. That's early, because the bear pit is right before they get to KL after the PW...

Well they are having Melisandre turn up with the BWB presumably to take Gendry for the three leeches scene. But I suspect that Arya will have been taken by the Hound by the time this happens. I thought that having the Hound recognise Arya was a clever way to get around the lack of Harwin.

As for Jaime/Brienne, well the bear pit can't be any later than episode 8 because of course Roose will likely leave Harrenhal in the same episode and needs to be at the Twins for the RW in E9. I'm guessing that we'll have Jaime and Brienne in every episode now up until 7, then skip them for E8/9 and then just have a quick scene which fully establishes their "friendship" and will likely involve them finding out about the RW.

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IBecause I felt that KL was lacking in fan favourites like Tyrion, Tywin and Varys.

Um, you did see the same episode 1 that I saw, with the Tywin / Tyrion scene? As Tyrion has been in both episodes so far, how is he 'missing'? Varys will be seen when necessary, and so far it has not been necessary. Just because someone is a fan favourite is no reason for having them in every episode, especially not a character like Varys who should be in the background! As for moving the KL plot along, I am quite happy that we didn't get QoT until Ep 2, because we needed to see the Lannister / Tyrell 'dinner' in order to give some better context to the whole Tyrell / Sansa/ Joffrey material in Ep 2. And we needed the Tywin / Tyrion scene in order to confirm the shifting balances within the Lannisters, and set things up for much later.

The producers obviously can't win. People complained about Seasons 1 and 2 that things were rushed and lots of stuff got condensed or omitted. Now that the writers have the luxury of being been able to take more time with ASOS and adapt it over more than one season, you are immediately complaining that they are too slow!!

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Well they are having Melisandre turn up with the BWB presumably to take Gendry for the three leeches scene. But I suspect that Arya will have been taken by the Hound by the time this happens. I thought that having the Hound recognise Arya was a clever way to get around the lack of Harwin.

As for Jaime/Brienne, well the bear pit can't be any later than episode 8 because of course Roose will likely leave Harrenhal in the same episode and needs to be at the Twins for the RW in E9. I'm guessing that we'll have Jaime and Brienne in every episode now up until 7, then skip them for E8/9 and then just have a quick scene which fully establishes their "friendship" and will likely involve them finding out about the RW.

Oh right, I totally forgot they added the Melisandre/Gendry plot. I liked the Hound recognising Arya too, I just hope they don't go too fast with Arya's arc this season, cause it's one of the best of SoS.

Re Jaime/Brienne: I suppose it makes sense to have the bear pit then, time-wise. We never got to read the scene of Brienne finding out about the RW, so if it's included in the show I'm really looking forward to it.

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Um, you did see the same episode 1 that I saw, with the Tywin / Tyrion scene? As Tyrion has been in both episodes so far, how is he 'missing'? Varys will be seen when necessary, and so far it has not been necessary. Just because someone is a fan favourite is no reason for having them in every episode, especially not a character like Varys who should be in the background! As for moving the KL plot along, I am quite happy that we didn't get QoT until Ep 2, because we needed to see the Lannister / Tyrell 'dinner' in order to give some better context to the whole Tyrell / Sansa/ Joffrey material in Ep 2. And we needed the Tywin / Tyrion scene in order to confirm the shifting balances within the Lannisters, and set things up for much later.

The producers obviously can't win. People complained about Seasons 1 and 2 that things were rushed and lots of stuff got condensed or omitted. Now that the writers have the luxury of being been able to take more time with ASOS and adapt it over more than one season, you are immediately complaining that they are too slow!!

I was referring to episode 2 in the case of missing characters, where there was no Tywin or Varys and only one (rather lacklustre I thought) scene with Tyrion. I know Varys very much works in the background but I felt he should have been in both episodes. In E1 I feel like LF should have sent Ros to speak with Sansa discreetly and then Ros would report to Varys about LF's plans, following up on their little business partnership from E10. Then in E2 I feel instead of the small scenes which I felt were rather superfluous we could have had the small council meeting which would of course feature Varys and Tywin.

And for me at least the complaint about S2 was not that the plot was rushed, it was that individual scenes were rushed. Each episode we would spend only a few minutes with each character resulting in there being little progression with the individual plots each episode. So far S3 has been generally better about spending more time with each plot but I still feel the pace of the plot is too slow.

Oh right, I totally forgot they added the Melisandre/Gendry plot. I liked the Hound recognising Arya too, I just hope they don't go too fast with Arya's arc this season, cause it's one of the best of SoS.

Re Jaime/Brienne: I suppose it makes sense to have the bear pit then, time-wise. We never got to read the scene of Brienne finding out about the RW, so if it's included in the show I'm really looking forward to it.

I think we can assume that a good deal of Arya's arc will be cut. If you recall there is an awful lot of traveling about meeting minor characters before finally meeting Beric. Presumably we'll be skipping straight to Beric.

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It doesn't feel rushed, far from it. Season 2 was rushed, yes, but the first two episodes of S3 are pretty slow. But I'm okay with that rythm. They take sufficient amount of time with every storyline.

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Rushed? To me it feels like the season is moving at snail's pace, honestly.

Yes, but you and protar seem to be looking at things from the perspective of book readers, even subconsciously, meaning you are far more familiar with the setup and all the characters than TV-only viewers. And that makes a world of difference. There was a very good review recently by an experienced critic, who says he has not read the books and has no intention of doing so at this stage: he pointed out that D&D have to present something that works as a TV show, for people who have not read the books. And presenting something as a TV show often means that you take your time at various points, because otherwise you completely lose viewers. If you read some of the comments by TV-only viewers, you will see that the show is already extremely complex for them, so that having the writers take their time at the start of a season is a sensible strategy. Look at the number of new people we already have in Season 3, to go along with an already crowded cast of 'main' characters.

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Yes, but you and protar seem to be looking at things from the perspective of book readers, even subconsciously, meaning you are far more familiar with the setup and all the characters than TV-only viewers. And that makes a world of difference. There was a very good review recently by an experienced critic, who says he has not read the books and has no intention of doing so at this stage: he pointed out that D&D have to present something that works as a TV show, for people who have not read the books. And presenting something as a TV show often means that you take your time at various points, because otherwise you completely lose viewers. If you read some of the comments by TV-only viewers, you will see that the show is already extremely complex for them, so that having the writers take their time at the start of a season is a sensible strategy. Look at the number of new people we already have in Season 3, to go along with an already crowded cast of 'main' characters.

I'd say the complete opposite is true. Books tend to have more patient audiences which means more time to set things up. Indeed, despite being lauded as a complete roller coaster ride, SOS is in much the same league as COK for the first couple hundred pages. On TV however people are less patient. I think if you asked the average viewer how to improve GOT it would probably be to have more action and less pointless talking. The opening 2 episodes were by no means bad television, but a premiere that opens with a big battle, introduces a couple of super-charismatic new characters and ends with the series' myth arc finally progressing a bit (in the form of Sam the Slayer.) would have been much better than what we got.

I'm sorry but you seem to be conflating "speed up the plot" with "make the plot more complex." The two are not the same. The former will engage audiences, the latter (if overdone.) will turn viewers off.

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Realistically, even season one feels a bit rushed at times. I know this is just whining and wishful thinking, but the first season(if they had the budget, and the actors to cast for Roose Bolton and Edmure/Brynden and all that) could've been excellent as 12 or 13 episodes.

Season two and the first two episodes of season three all feel horribly rushed and horribly slow at the same time.

Plot wise, it's all moving QUITE fast - but since they cut off SO MUCH of the meat off the bone and we're left with little to no details or discussions in show, everything feels super fast paced and individual scenes just don't FEEL important. On a lesser scale, however, individual scenes and ESPECIALLY individual character arks seem to be horribly slow, feel drawn out and overall feel like they're going no where.

It's kind of an interesting fail paradox the show has gotten itself into.

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i kinda have to agree with the mountain. I was watching this episode with a friend who has not read the book, and when jojen reed said "we have traveled far to find you brandon, and we have a much longer way go" he sarcasticly cracked "oh, another story arc with nothing but traveling and talking for an entire season... now im really on the edge of my seat!"

the second season got away with its wierd pacing because the audience enjoyed Tyrions scenes/Dinklages acting so much. This season does have some really good acting so far, but it doesnt make a big difference when the audience doesnt know anything about these new characters and cant really relate to them regardless of how well acted they are.

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