Ser Fingerbones Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thank you so much for making this. I use it so much. Just wondering if anyone ever did a re-read based on this timeline? I imagine it would be interesting to do, if you didn't mind too much book/chapter swapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thank you so much for making this. I use it so much. Just wondering if anyone ever did a re-read based on this timeline? I imagine it would be interesting to do, if you didn't mind too much book/chapter swapping. I've done my last two based on this timeline. You see how events coincide. Eg, Stannis getting bogged down in snow occurs as the Cinnamon Wind is sailing in the heat off the southern coast of Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The Prince of Winterfell should occur within a week of Stannis's departure from Deepwood Motte since the storm begins four days after Stannis's departure but it has not begun in Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I'm being nice :) Yes, thank you! When I get home from work tomorrow, I will take a look :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yes, thank you! When I get home from work tomorrow, I will take a look :)Wonderful news! We also need more than two days between Roose's departure from Barrowton and the wedding at Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Fingerbones Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 In relation to the problem regarding the time between leaving Barrowton and the wedding.. According to the timeline, in aGoT, it took the Starks and Lannisters about 20 days to get deep into the Barrowlands from Winterfell. This was via the King's Road, but the slowness of that train is stressed.I imagine the Boltons would not be moving too fast either, as Wyman Manderly's supply train is in tow. So, if I'm not mistaken, the wedding could take place anywhere between 5/15 and 5/25. Possibly earlier or later. This allows for at least 10 days of travel between Barrowton and Winterfell. The second Theon chapter in Winterfell has the feeling that they've been there for awhile, so at least a week seems reasonable, though perhaps longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 @R_T: Reek III is also important. Wyman has joined Roose at Barrowton. So Asha I must precede Davos I, which must precede Reek III.The curious issue is why Wyman said he had to go to Winterfell in Davos IV when Roose summoned all to Barrowton and Wyman did go to Barrowton. Perhaps Roose summoned the lords to Barrowton with the intention of marching to Winterfell together. The problem with that is Roose apparently doesn't decide to have wedding at Winterfell until Reek III. So Wyman was either anticipating Roose's decision or the George made a mistake.Did you mean Davos IV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Did you mean Davos IV?Yes, sorry. The error crept in in the translation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 In Reek 3, Roose tells Ramsay the following: “Not at all. There are tidings that you need to hear. Lord Stannis has finally left the Wall.”That got Ramsay halfway to his feet, a smile glistening on his wide, wet lips. “Is he marching on the Dreadfort?”“He is not, alas. Arnolf does not understand it. He swears that he did all he could to bait the trap.”“I wonder. Scratch a Karstark and you’ll find a Stark.”“After the scratch the Young Wolf gave Lord Rickard, that may be somewhat less true than formerly. Be that as it may. Lord Stannis has taken Deepwood Motte from the ironmen and restored it to House Glover. Worse, the mountain clans have joined him, Wull and Norrey and Liddle and the rest. His strength is growing.” It would seem that House Bolton received quite a big amount of information at once.. Stannis left the Wall in between Jon 4 and 5. In Jon 6, the summons to Barrowton arrive at the Wall.. Those summons would, by the time of Reek 3, have been some time ago, as the plan to go to Winterfell is formed in Reek 3, and Wyman Manderly has already arrived. Currently, the timeline displays the events the following: - Davos 4 (Go get Rickon), occurs on 4-10- Asha 1 (Deepwood Motte falls), occurs on 4-30- Reek 3 (Manderly at Barrowton, Ramsay returns from looking for Freys; Let's go to Winterfell), occurs on 5-2 The problems with this are the following:- In Davos 4 we already learn what happens in Asha 1. Davos 4 should thus occur before Asha 1.- In Davos 4, Manderly seems to know something that is only decided on in Reek 3. However, as Manderly in Davos 4 still has to leave White Harbor and go to Roose, and in Reek 3 has arrived with Roose, I'm going to guess that the Davos chapter would have either needed to read "Barrowton", or, Manderly was guessing that they would eventually go to Winterfell. Or, perhaps, Roose had told the lords that they would go from Barrowton to Winterfell, but simply hadn't told Ramsay (as Ramsay doesn't seem to be happy about the decision, it might not be strange that Roose kept the info from Ramsay). So we need Davos 4 before Asha 1. All of this, naturally, occurs before Reek 3. My original thought was this: Asha 1 is moved back, earlier into the year. It has been a while since the Kingsmoot, but the Kingsmoot is currently at 30-1.. do we need almost 2,5 months in between? If the chapter took place on 4-1, then sufficient time has passed between Asha 1 and the Kingsmoot, and there will be enough time between Asha 1 and Davos 4 for a raven to reach White Harbor and for Wyman and Robett to discuss plans (if necessary). The time between Davos 4 and Theon 3 (Reek III) is sufficient currently, isn't it? But then, another problem arises. Only in Jon 7 (currently 5-2), does Jon learn Stannis took Deepwood Motte... So it would seem that Asha can remain at her place, but that Davos and Reek 3 need moving a bit.. OR... we say that Stannis only send a raven to the Wall to update them a few days before he went to Winterfell.. As for the distances, rough estimations (based on the 300 miles between Deepwood Motte and Winterfell)Deepwood Motte to Castle Black 667 milesDeepwood Motte to White Harbor 700 milesDeepwood Motte to Barrowton 486 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 In Reek 3, Roose tells Ramsay the following: Not at all. There are tidings that you need to hear. Lord Stannis has finally left the Wall.That got Ramsay halfway to his feet, a smile glistening on his wide, wet lips. Is he marching on the Dreadfort?He is not, alas. Arnolf does not understand it. He swears that he did all he could to bait the trap.I wonder. Scratch a Karstark and youll find a Stark.After the scratch the Young Wolf gave Lord Rickard, that may be somewhat less true than formerly. Be that as it may. Lord Stannis has taken Deepwood Motte from the ironmen and restored it to House Glover. Worse, the mountain clans have joined him, Wull and Norrey and Liddle and the rest. His strength is growing. It would seem that House Bolton received quite a big amount of information at once.. Stannis left the Wall in between Jon 4 and 5. In Jon 6, the summons to Barrowton arrive at the Wall.. Those summons would, by the time of Reek 3, have been some time ago, as the plan to go to Winterfell is formed in Reek 3, and Wyman Manderly has already arrived. Currently, the timeline displays the events the following: - Davos 4 (Go get Rickon), occurs on 4-10- Asha 1 (Deepwood Motte falls), occurs on 4-30- Reek 3 (Manderly at Barrowton, Ramsay returns from looking for Freys; Let's go to Winterfell), occurs on 5-2 The problems with this are the following:- In Davos 4 we already learn what happens in Asha 1. Davos 4 should thus occur before Asha 1.- In Davos 4, Manderly seems to know something that is only decided on in Reek 3. However, as Manderly in Davos 4 still has to leave White Harbor and go to Roose, and in Reek 3 has arrived with Roose, I'm going to guess that the Davos chapter would have either needed to read "Barrowton", or, Manderly was guessing that they would eventually go to Winterfell. Or, perhaps, Roose had told the lords that they would go from Barrowton to Winterfell, but simply hadn't told Ramsay (as Ramsay doesn't seem to be happy about the decision, it might not be strange that Roose kept the info from Ramsay). So we need Davos 4 before Asha 1. All of this, naturally, occurs before Reek 3. My original thought was this: Asha 1 is moved back, earlier into the year. It has been a while since the Kingsmoot, but the Kingsmoot is currently at 30-1.. do we need almost 2,5 months in between? If the chapter took place on 4-1, then sufficient time has passed between Asha 1 and the Kingsmoot, and there will be enough time between Asha 1 and Davos 4 for a raven to reach White Harbor and for Wyman and Robett to discuss plans (if necessary). The time between Davos 4 and Theon 3 (Reek III) is sufficient currently, isn't it? But then, another problem arises. Only in Jon 7 (currently 5-2), does Jon learn Stannis took Deepwood Motte... So it would seem that Asha can remain at her place, but that Davos and Reek 3 need moving a bit.. OR... we say that Stannis only send a raven to the Wall to update them a few days before he went to Winterfell.. As for the distances, rough estimations (based on the 300 miles between Deepwood Motte and Winterfell)Deepwood Motte to Castle Black 667 milesDeepwood Motte to White Harbor 700 milesDeepwood Motte to Barrowton 486 milesSo, do we agree with the following order...Asha IDavos IVJon VIReek IIIPrinceAsha II ...?There's no way to fix the Wyman to WF instead of BT discrepancy so we have to ignore it or assume it's an error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 So, do we agree with the following order...Asha IDavos IVJon VIReek IIIPrinceAsha II ...? Yeah, I think so. In The Prince of Winterfell, it doesn't sound like there was too much trouble of reaching Winterfell from Barrowton.. Yet Stannis does face trouble. Roose tells, in Prince, that Stannis could be there within 14 days, if the weather holds... It would seem that the weather becomes worse within the next few days, Roose had arrived at Winterfell before Stannis left Deepwood Motte, according to The King's Prince. During the march, when it starts to snow, it has become a true storm by the fifth day of snow. It doesn't sound like there was a storm at Winterfell during the wedding, though, but there were things "half burried in snow". So it would seem that the true storm that delays Stannis this severely starts after the wedding..By the time we reach A Ghost in Winterfell, the storm has been raging for a while. The thing about Asha II is that it takes quite some time, so perhaps, for that chapter, we should discuss the start and end day of the chapter seperately. The first days described in Asha II seem to take place before Prince (perhaps only a day or two after Stannis left Deepwood Motte), but the ending definitly occurs after Prince has ended. There's no way to fix the Wyman to WF instead of BT discrepancy so we have to ignore it or assume it's an error.Agreed. So, I guess it is now only a matter of discussing the dates of the timeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I guess with the holidays, we all kind of forgot about this one? :) The order it should be:Asha IDavos IVJon VIReek IIIPrince of Winterfell I propose: Jon 6 goes back to 4/8Jon 7 then moves to 4/15Because Jon 7 is now this early, with the learning of Deepwood Motte falling to Stannis, Deepwood Motte itself can now fall at 4/11, leaving 4 days for news to travel to the Wall. So Asha I to 4/11 Davos 4 can occur after Jon 7 as well, right? leaving enough time for the raven to travel, and to have him formulate a plan with Glover for a few days,.. placing Davos 4 at 4/17 ? Reek 3, where Manderly arrives at Barrowton, would be occuring about three to four weeks after Davos 4... placing Reek 3 around 5/5...? That's where Reek 3 already was, I see now.. Keeping the Reek 3's (ramsay goes hunting: 4/16; Ramsay returns, Manderly present: 5/2 ;host leaves for Winterfell: 5/5 ) Which brings us to The Prince of Winterfell, where Winterfell has been reached, and of course, the wedding takes place. So, this should happen a bit further apart from 5/5, where they leave Barrowton.. It is currently at 5/7.. A few weeks should be needed here.. move to 5/25 ? Theon 5 can then be moved a few days from 6/2, its current position? In Prince, we learn that Stannis could be there in a fortnight... So the part of Asha II describing Stannis leaving should take place about a fortnight before Prince, then.. The remainder of Asha II can be filled in accordingly (she described quite a number of days).. Any problems with this approach that I missed? The situation regarding the North isn't referred to in Cersei chapters, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I guess with the holidays, we all kind of forgot about this one? :) The order it should be:Asha IDavos IVJon VIReek IIIPrince of Winterfell I propose: Jon 6 goes back to 4/8Jon 7 then moves to 4/15Because Jon 7 is now this early, with the learning of Deepwood Motte falling to Stannis, Deepwood Motte itself can now fall at 4/11, leaving 4 days for news to travel to the Wall. So Asha I to 4/11 Davos 4 can occur after Jon 7 as well, right? leaving enough time for the raven to travel, and to have him formulate a plan with Glover for a few days,.. placing Davos 4 at 4/17 ? Reek 3, where Manderly arrives at Barrowton, would be occuring about three to four weeks after Davos 4... placing Reek 3 around 5/5...? That's where Reek 3 already was, I see now.. Keeping the Reek 3's (ramsay goes hunting: 4/16; Ramsay returns, Manderly present: 5/2 ;host leaves for Winterfell: 5/5 ) Which brings us to The Prince of Winterfell, where Winterfell has been reached, and of course, the wedding takes place. So, this should happen a bit further apart from 5/5, where they leave Barrowton.. It is currently at 5/7.. A few weeks should be needed here.. move to 5/25 ? Theon 5 can then be moved a few days from 6/2, its current position? In Prince, we learn that Stannis could be there in a fortnight... So the part of Asha II describing Stannis leaving should take place about a fortnight before Prince, then.. The remainder of Asha II can be filled in accordingly (she described quite a number of days).. Any problems with this approach that I missed? The situation regarding the North isn't referred to in Cersei chapters, for example?That sounds perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 That sounds perfect. Good, next time I'm behind my laptop, I'll make the edits ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Good, next time I'm behind my laptop, I'll make the edits ;) Err, what're you doing behind your laptop? Should you not be in front of it to do the edits? scnr ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Err, what're you doing behind your laptop? Should you not be in front of it to do the edits? scnr ;)That was funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Err, what're you doing behind your laptop? Should you not be in front of it to do the edits? scnr ;)Aaah, you caught me there.. a literal translation crept in, instead of proper english.So, in, proper English (I hope): the next time I'm in front of my laptop, I'll make the edit. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychel_Redfort Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I've found something weird. Joffrey's 13th nameday happens on Clash 02, Sansa I. Then there is this quote in Clash 10, Davos I, just before Stannis sends his letters. Ser Davos Seaworth lingered over his tankard for a good while, thinking. A year and a half ago, he had been with Stannis in King's Landing when King Robert staged a tourney for Prince Joffrey's name day. He remembered the red priest Thoros of Myr, and the flaming sword he had wielded in the melee. The made had made for a colorful spectacle, his red robes flapping while his blade writhed with pale green flames, but everyone knew there was no true magic to it, and in the end his fire had guttered out and Bronze Yohn Royce had brained him with a common mace. Davos obviously means here the Tourney for Joffrey's 12th nameday. But this means there would be half a year between Sansa I and Davos I, or to stay in King's Landing, between Sansa I, the coming of Tyrion, and Tyrion III, when Stannis's letter arrives at the Red Keep, and that seems a little big. The timeline has roughly one month, and it looks more plausible. 299 begins at the end of Game. If there's half a year between Sansa I and Tyrion III, then there would be less than half a year between Tyrion III and the Purple Wedding on the first day of 300 ! So did GRRM mess with Davos's reference ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I've found something weird. Joffrey's 13th nameday happens on Clash 02, Sansa I. Then there is this quote in Clash 10, Davos I, just before Stannis sends his letters. Davos obviously means here the Tourney for Joffrey's 12th nameday. But this means there would be half a year between Sansa I and Davos I, or to stay in King's Landing, between Sansa I, the coming of Tyrion, and Tyrion III, when Stannis's letter arrives at the Red Keep, and that seems a little big. The timeline has roughly one month, and it looks more plausible. 299 begins at the end of Game. If there's half a year between Sansa I and Tyrion III, then there would be less than half a year between Tyrion III and the Purple Wedding on the first day of 300 ! So did GRRM mess with Davos's reference ?My paper copy states a year :) not "year and a half". In fact, Davos specifies "a year" twice in that chapter. The changes have been edited in, btw, though we had completely forgotten about Melisandre I taking place in between Jon 6 and Jon 7. Also, the Tycho Nestoris timeline towards the end of Dance needs some checking.Also adjusted the Asha III chapter accordingly to the changes of Asha II :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychel_Redfort Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 My paper copy states a year :) not "year and a half". In fact, Davos specifies "a year" twice in that chapter. And my paper copy states a year and a half... Has this mistake been noticed and corrected in later editions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.