Quentyn possibly alive?

[Civfan]

I just saw a locked thread about it, but I had heard this theory earlier on /tv/ and wanted to discuss it. I hope this topic isn't entirely off the table for discussion?

Anyway, I'll just paste what I read here and see what you guys think-

There are 2 “princes” in Meereen: Tatters and Quentyn. I postulate that both have similar builds – appearing stocky due to short legs; but this is not evident in Tatter’s case, since he is never seen when standing. Both, I believe, are part of the 9-man party that invades the Pit to steal the dragons. I postulate that Tatters is incognito, as one of the four unnamed Windblown disguised as Brazen Beasts. Quentyn has success with Viserion, but is breathed upon by Rhaegal.

Quentyn, despite some pain, survives the burning. It turns out he is indeed one of the three “heads of the dragon” after all, destined to be a dragonrider after all. Archie is actually the more seriously injured, attempting to put out the flames on Quentyn’s hair and clothes.

Tatters, however, remains alive, and Gerris is furious that he and his men attacked and angered the dragons, which is why he is found standing over Tatters with a drawn sword. He quickly throws away his sword when the locust guards arrive.

Tatters spends 3 days dying, on Dany’s bed, with Missandei as his nurse. He is accustomed to being addressed as “prince” and, on those few occasions when he utters a few words, says nothing that causes Missandei to suspect he is not Prince Quentyn.

It is established in Quentyn’s first chapter that Gerris is the “mummer” of the party, and also that he is capable of false grief, but not genuine grief. He is unaffected by the deaths of friends; “This is still a game to him”, thinks Quentyn (p 89), but is glib enough to tell a pack of lies about them while giving a funeral oration for them (p 88). Later (p. 786), Barristan also senses Gerris’ deceptive nature: “False coin”, he thinks.

But when Barristan goes to visit the two Dornishmen in their cells, to give them the news of Quentyn’s death, it is only Gerris who makes a display of grief (p. 926).

Barristan thinks Quentyn is dead, but even so, he is not entirely fooled by Gerris’ performance. “Do you take me for a doting grandfather?” he asks (p 927), in response to Gerris’ melodramatic claim that Quentyn acted out of love for Dany.

Then Barristan asks them what happened when they tried to take the dragons:

>The Dornishmen exchanged a look, then Drinkwater said …

Why do they exchange a look? This is the first hint that they are hiding something.

After Gerris’ start, Archie takes over, describing the scene in the Pit. His account seems accurate, matching what we saw occur during Quentyn’s POV. But when he starts to reach the point where Rhaegal breathes on Quentyn, he falters, becomes vague, and stops. Then Gerris, the natural born liar takes over:

>“And the Windblown blew away,” said Ser Gerris. “Quent was screaming, covered in flames, and they were gone. Caggo, Pretty Meris, all but the dead one.”

Still vague enough, and contains some truth. But a lie. The Windblown did not all blow away. Before it was over, one more remained behind, besides the dead crossbowman. Gerris was found standing over him with sword in hand.

And is it not strange that the Dornishmen are so specific in describing what we already know, and become suddenly vague when we reach the point beyond that?

Then, after Barristan tells them he wants to send them on a mission to talk to Tatters, we have this:

>Gerris Drinkwater pushed back his mop of sunstreaked hair. “Might we have some time to discuss this amongst ourselves.”

>“No,” said Selmy.

>“I’ll do it,” offered Ser Archibald, “just so long as there’s no bloody boats involved. Drink will do it too.” He grinned. “He don’t know it yet, but he will.”

Both Gerris and Archie have ideas about the mission that they do not want to discuss in front of Barristan. They both may know something Barristan does not. They may know, for instance, that Tatters, the target of their mission, is already dead, and/or that Quentyn remains alive.

And then, we have these comments on different chapters

>A good honest face, a girl had called it once, but you should smile more.

>Smiles had never come easily for Quentyn Martell, any more than they did for his lord father.

>The tiny Naathi scribe looked up at his approach. “Honored ser. The prince is beyond pain now. His Dornish gods have taken him home. See? He smiles.”

Coincidence? I think not.

I hope it's true because it'd be more interesting than him dying, and I actually liked the character. I realise it's nothing definitive and of course GRRM isn't shy about killing characters off, he also tends to let us think characters are dead when they aren't. Arya gets hit in the head with an axe, Davos's ship explodes, Jon gets stabbed... and it's hard to know for sure if someone's really dead, right? So, I personally think this theory has enough weight to merit my hopeful belief.

What do you guys think, based on this quoted text?

[Sir Noone Sword Of The Day]

I suppose its not entirely impossible, Quentyn's story was quite insignificant in that he really didn't achieve anything to deserve a point of view, I'm usually against characters miraculously surviving incidents where they should have died, but since Quentyn's story felt unfulfilled than i wouldn't mind.

Although, I would have to read that part of the book again to determine whether or not this theory seems viable, Its the first time I have heard of it.

What happens to the dragons after Quentyn's death? Is it realistic enough to speculate if Quentyn could still be in the dragons cage with Viserion (providing he is one of the head's). Or had too much time passed after his death and the battle thats about to occur.

What would be awesome is if Dany came riding in of Drogon and Quentyn on Viserion and they destroyed the Yunkai forces, (again just wishful thinking)

[brut]

He's dead alright. But his face is, well, not dead quite yet. I say no more...

[Stark@heart]

I've always been on the Q lives team. Without that his inclusion as a POV just seem wasted.

I think his story is about more than freeing the dragons, Anyone could have done that and the Dornish spears that Dany supposedly "lost" Well, she does have Dragons and if Doran Martrell is anything, he's a man who wants to be on the winning side. He'll choose real dragons over alleged dragons and elephants so that kinda shoots the theory in the foot that Dany has lost " much needed" Dornish support and showing that was Qs purpose to the story.

So, I expect to see all hell breaking loose in Mereene as Arch and Gerris make their way to the pyramids that the Dragons have taken over, looking for Q because it won't be Dany and Drogon who ride in to the rescue. It'll be Quent and Rhaegal. This leaves only one dragon to be claimed by Vic's horn, a plot developement that's been coming for awhile and I think connected to Q's own dragon tale.

[Gordias]

He's dead. Dead as dead can be. His narrative was far from pointless; the repercussions for Dany and her ilk are going to be huge with regards to Dorne (spurring Quentyn and letting him die, Dorne's going to be striking a different dragon banner I think...) Wanting him to be alive amounts to a kind of magical thinking GRRM wants you to believe in, since he's posed a few compelling instances of well-hidden details that could be mistaken for magical thinking if you weren't reading between the lines (ahem, Jon) but here that is not the case.

Quentyn's final words were "Oh" before he died screaming. There was no mummer's farce involved, no Quentyn swap, no "that was the Tattered Prince who burned"- Quentyn said he'd deliver dragons and he failed. They both escaped, and both are mentioned in the text as making new homes in the pyramids.

This thread did it to death http://asoiaf.wester...rs/page__st__80

[tbc]

I've always been on the Q lives team. Without that his inclusion as a POV just seem wasted.

I think his story is about more than freeing the dragons, Anyone could have done that and the Dornish spears that Dany supposedly "lost" Well, she does have Dragons and if Doran Martrell is anything, he's a man who wants to be on the winning side. He'll choose real dragons over alleged dragons and elephants so that kinda shoots the theory in the foot that Dany has lost " much needed" Dornish support and showing that was Qs purpose to the story.

So, I expect to see all hell breaking loose in Mereene as Arch and Gerris make their way to the pyramids that the Dragons have taken over, looking for Q because it won't be Dany and Drogon who ride in to the rescue. It'll be Quent and Rhaegal. This leaves only one dragon to be claimed by Vic's horn, a plot developement that's been coming for awhile and I think connected to Q's own dragon tale.

He's dead. He's finger lickin', dragon roasted dead.

I buy the idea that his POV, if Q is dead, doesn't make obvious sense, but I think its purpose is to further illuminate and strengthen the Martell plot to restore the Targaryens, and to provide more friendly Westerosi for Dany in Meereen. Between Gerris, Arch, Barristan, Barristan's squires, and presumably Tyrion, BBP, Jorah and the Second Sons, Dany suddenly has a lot of relatively important Westerosi around her, which, given she needs to move west quickly in the next two books, makes sense.

Also, if Q is dead from dragon fire, and if Arianne and Doran ally with Aegon (which they will), this sets up serious tension between Dany and Aegon when she returns to Westeros, which makes for great story.

The dragon idea is problematic also. The dragons are absolutely central to the overarching Ice/Fire and Azor Ahai narrative, and even if (as seems likely), they have more than one rider, Quentyn doesn't seem important enough.

[Stark@heart]

Only time and GRRM will tell but until I "hear" it from Gerris or Arch, I'm not believing it.

Cause saying "oh" and screaming is a natural reaction when your cloths are on fire. Doesn't mean you're dead or dying.

Q got blasted full in the face with dragonfire but he's eyeballs survived to see "what happended" that's so not plausible, even in Westeros, so I say Quent got a little toasty from the fire on his cloths and hair (like Dany) but survived his encounter with the dragons fire.

[BlueEyedCrow]

I say neigh to this, because, in my opinion, the "sun settign in the east" part of the MMD dany prophecy relies on quentyn dying in the east.

[Apple the Great]

I really hope that Quentyn is alive, but I'm fairly sure I've seen it said that GRRM has confirmed that he died, and this is important for Dany's "sun setting in the east" prophecy, though it irks me to no end that Quentyn dies essentially for the fulfilment of the propechy and Dany.

On the other hand, the points made in the OP are very interesting, and Quentyn would have a few drops of Targ blood.

[Civfan]

I really hope that Quentyn is alive, but I'm fairly sure I've seen it said that GRRM has confirmed that he died, and this is important for Dany's "sun setting in the east" prophecy, though it irks me to no end that Quentyn dies essentially for the fulfilment of the propechy and Dany.

On the other hand, the points made in the OP are very interesting, and Quentyn would have a few drops of Targ blood.

Yea, the sun setting in the east thing is perfect, but I'm still hopeful because I really liked him. I think it's because he was so... down to earth and normal? Kind of relatable, yknow? In a world of attractive charismatic clever special snowflakes he was just an average joe who wanted to do what he had to.

But anyway, I think i'll just keep my fingers crossed. There's not a ton of evidence in favour of this but there's enough ambiguity that it's worth considering. I'll be sure to look for more hints when I re-read the books. :)

[brut]

'E's passed on! This Quentyn is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-QUENTYN!

[Stark@heart]

I say neigh to this, because, in my opinion, the "sun settign in the east" part of the MMD dany prophecy relies on quentyn dying in the east.

He can still die in the East, after he's done something worthwhile, like save the city of Mereene? Or Barristan? Or just keeping one of the dragons from the control of Vic's horn?

Quentyn could have more to do before MMD prophecy comes true, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[Boy and Girl Wadish]

I say neigh to this, because, in my opinion, the "sun settign in the east" part of the MMD dany prophecy relies on quentyn dying in the east.

Whoa why did I not think of that. I've always taken MMD's prophecy granted. If this was the case though, well, I honestly don't still care much.

[brut]

Can someone please

He can still die in the East, after he's done something worthwhile, like save the city of Mereene? Or Barristan? Or just keeping one of the dragons from the control of Vic's horn?

Quentyn could have more to do before MMD prophecy comes true, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Pray, what would be more important than alienating Dorne away from Dany?

Dragons are beasts. This is what Quentyn demonstrated to Dorne.

[Jon Snow eats wild beaver]

'E's passed on! This Quentyn is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-QUENTYN!

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

:bowdown:

[The Storm King]

dead like ned dead

[Lord of Cheese]

Crispy skin Quentyn's goose is quite cooked.

[Hotpie4theironthrone]

He is definitely dead

[Rhaegarsjoy]

He was burned by rhaegal and a few days later dies from his burns.

Ser Archibald takes his bones back to dorne.

[billy g.]

'E's passed on! This Quentyn is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-QUENTYN!

:lol: :lol: :lol: