Jon Snow's Future - Theories old and new

[Don't Murder Me]

I got goose bumps reading your post. Partly because after reading the theon chapter from winds of winter I had similar thoughts. Nice well thought out post.

I just reread Bran 1 GoT thinking of Theon kicking the head. If your theory is correct, even that passage has so much more meaning.

[Fire Eater]

I don't think Jon is dead, but in a coma with his mind in Ghost.

When the man's flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades, and the beast becomes a little less a warg, a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast remains."

"I fear no ghosts. Dragons are more powerful than ghosts."

Jon's spirit will be in Ghost while he's out, but his spirit/will is strong enough to keep him from dissipating into Ghost.

The stewards had long ago discovered that food and meat kept longer in the icy storerooms carved from the base of the Wall . . . but prisoners did not. "You will die in here Lord Snow," Ser Alliser Thorne had said

This foreshadows Jon's "death", and his body being stored in the ice storerooms. Lord Snow may die in the ice, but he might be replaced by Jon Targaryen or something else.

Stabbing somone in the right place in the shoulder blades can put someone in a coma. Marsh and Co. would mistake a comatose Jon for dead, and put him in the ice storerooms under the Wall with smoked and salted meats. In the real world, Sir Adrian Scrope suffered a number of fatal wounds at the Battle of Edgehill, but a hard frost prevented him from bleeding out. The cold at the Wall would prevent Jon's lethal wounds from bleeding out.

The Russian Garland.

http://www.worldofta...an_Garland.html

Featuring the "Story of Lyubim Tsarevich and the Winged Wolf", wherein our hero Lyubim is treacherously betrayed and murdered by his brothers only to be resurrected by the winged wolf. Other tales include a 3 headed dragon and mountain of gold.

Bran is the winged wolf in Jojen's greendreams, and Jon is attacked by his black brothers. It will be Bran and BR that save Jon. Possibly with a "life pays for life" sacrifice from Asha. Why else would the name of her last POV be "The Sacrifice" when she isn't the one being sacrificed?

[Ghost's Shadow]

Didn't yet say how much I loved reading this, so it's time I do. Thanks for sharing this in here as well. It's very hope-giving.

(I really don't want the red witch near him, better if he doesn't owe her things.)

[OldGod]

Thanks for all the positive comments people, the whole blood sacrifice resurrection thing has been on my mind for a while. Nice to see people think its a good theory.

[theBigPicture]

He will come back to lead the white walkers :) It is sooo George Martin like :)

[Lady Blue Rose]

If Jon is dead/ while Jon is "away", things at the Wall will get VERY nasty, VERY fast! Jon is the link that, although none of them recognize it, maintains the very delicate balance between Stannis, the NW and the wildlings.

At this point they think Stannis is dead, so Selyse (who thinks she should have control of the NW) will declare Shireen as queen and herself as regent until Shireen comes of age.

She will try to force the men of the NW to go get revenge for her husband and impose on them her plan of integrating the wildlings into her army. This will set the NW against her.

She will also try to impose her religion on the wildlings, try to marry them off by force and make them bow, which the wildlings will recent and oppose.

Meanwhile, the wildlings and the NW will be fighting a ongst themselves since the NW wants to be rid of the wildlings- and I think the wildlings will feel some sort of layalty to Jon want to avenge him.

With these internal battles going on at the Wall, the Others will have it sooo much easier when they attack the wall. Scary!

[shk12344]

I'm not necessarily a fan of Theon being sacrificed to a Weirwood to save Jon. Firstly, I'm not sure how it would work logistically. I mean, we see through Bran somebody being sacrificed to "activate" a weir wood tree in the network, we don't actually see that sacrifice doing anything else. Additionally, while I suppose Theon's sacrificial blood force could be transferred through the Weirwood network (and this is a big assumption granted), Jon at the moment is nowhere near another Weirwood. I imagine Jon would need to be brought to a Weirwood (maybe the grove where he took his vows) or somewhere else (Winterfell maybe?).

Secondly, I see Theon having a much bigger role left to play in the series rather than being a sacrificial lamb for Jon. While there has been a certain antagonism developed between them from the beginning of AGOT (one of Jon's first lines in the series is "Theon's an ass"), Theon has since become a relatively major POV character with a seemingly huge role to play in the future of the Iron Islands. I see Theon eventually returning there at some point, possibly as a means for his sister Asha to invalidate Euron's Kingsmoot.

So yeah, I'm not sure I really see this whole sacrifice happening, as heavily hinted at as it may be.

I agree with your post. I don't think Theon will be sacrificed and he still has very important role to play in the book .

With respect to Jon, I think Jon himself is the sacrifice. He does possess Kings blood and he will techinically be dead. Furthermore I do not believe he will need any help from Mel to be reborn, he will do it by himself.

[Israel]

What can Bloodraven do? Is he still alive? Are we assuming that "there can be only one" ? I dont think so, I think BR is showing Bran the ropes and if something has to be done then maybe he has a hand. But im the guy that thinks BR brought the pregnant direwolf to winterfell for the starks and that Mel is sheira seastar so I dunno.

[TheonGreyjoy]

I doubt Jon will only come back in book 7, unless there is many more books to come. He have way to many things to do, for one book only. He most likely warged ghost and will be there for 2 chapters or so.

[Young Nan]

Really well thought out and thorough post. I like your Theon theory. I am in the "mel resurrecting Jon would be a tired cliche" camp, I really hope that isn't what happens. I think that GRRM writes better than that. I don't think he'll use that big of a deus ex machina. He usually keeps us guessing, and since Mel resurrecting Jon is the first assumption a lot of people make about Jon's comeback, I don't think that is what will happen.

that being said, Theon sacrificing himself willingly to save the starks would be satisfying. He really screwed them over, and is truly repentant in his heart. He also is broken mentally and physically, and probably cannot recover and live any sort of meaningful life. He wants to fix what he did to the starks, and he wants to die, his sacrifice would allow him to maybe redeem himself by dying a martyr, basically.

I also feel that blood sacrifice is a theme in dance. We have Bran drinking the blood as a tree, and in the supposed Jojen Paste chapter, grrm kept repeating that line "the moon was as thin and sharp as the blade of a knife", which I felt was a hint.

so yeah, I like it. nice work OP!

[Lady Blue Rose]

I doubt Jon will only come back in book 7, unless there is many more books to come. He have way to many things to do, for one book only. He most likely warged ghost and will be there for 2 chapters or so.

Yeah, GRRM stated that all the cliff-hangers from the previous books will be resolved very early on, so that the story can move forward.

[Pugsley]

I don't have much new to add. Just wanted to say that I loved your post, and that it's right along the lines of what I've been thinking as well. King's blood to wake the dragon, but not the sort of dragon they were expecting!

One thing to consider: could Val play a role? I read a post a while back, I wish I could remember who by, that made a good argument that there could be more to Val than we know, that she could be an Old Gods priestess of some sort.

[Ghost's Shadow]

I doubt Jon will only come back in book 7, unless there is many more books to come. He have way to many things to do, for one book only. He most likely warged ghost and will be there for 2 chapters or so.

Still too much that needs to be done for him of all people to disappear for an entire book. If one book is months, then it just cannot be, I think.

Yeah, GRRM stated that all the cliff-hangers from the previous books will be resolved very early on, so that the story can move forward.

I hope that's true! These two books, if there's 'only' going to be 2 more, need to cover a lot of ground!

One thing to consider: could Val play a role? I read a post a while back, I wish I could remember who by, that made a good argument that there could be more to Val than we know, that she could be an Old Gods priestess of some sort.

It's a good way to expand on a character we've not really seen that much of before, maybe only a hint here or there, so some dots might be connected!

[Lady Arya's Song]

Welcome Old god to the forum. Very well thought out and well written post. Thank you.

I have a few thoughts regarding Jon's story arch. I hope I do not offend anyone with them.

Not only are the old gods Ned's gods but they are Jon Snows as well. Many of us see Norse mythology and Eastern mythology, various religions incorporated into the story line of Jon Snow and also Dany. Being that I have a strong christian background I kept finding christian or messianic implications in Jon's character and the Old Gods.

Martin in my opinion has written Jon Snow and to a lesser extent Dany's story line archs in a messianic framework.

I can find christian theology in both of their story lines.

Both have temptation moments.

Danny in the waste land with Drogon at the end of ADWD. I am not sure if Dany is not giving into her tempation when she is listening in her head to Jorah and her brother Visery's " Dragons plant no trees".

Jon on top of the Wall when Stannis is tempting him with WF, a lordship and a wilding princess if he will only renounce his father's gods and bow or give the knee to Stannis. (Devil and Jesus Christ on the top of the Temple Wall)

We read about the internal strife that Jon has as he deals with the 'want" he has verses his mission and his honor. He even wanders around a bit going outside the Wall to the waste lands of the north as he fights with himself over his choices. Jesus was hungry while he was wandering in the waste land and Jon Snow is also thinking how hungry he is. George is so good that way with his writing. :)

Notice that in both story lines. Ghost comes to comfort Jon ( holy spirit) and (Drogon) fills that for Dany. This happens once both characters have made the choice in their mind. Like ministering angels once a decision has been made.

Jon Snows prayer at the godwood when he takes the six new recruits beyond the Wall to say their vows is very similar to the Bible's version of Christ's prayer for his disciples to be one. His prayer is very poignant.

Notice that Ghost comes while Jon Snow is kneeling and once again comforts Jon. Jon reflects that he and Ghost are one. Jon also relflects on the differences between each brother. Martin has written this to show that Jon knows his men, each one, their quirks and their strengths. Very moving. Notice that Jon Snow reflects that each brother is known to him and they are all graven on his heart. Again a Jesus messianic moment.

Jon's words at the end of that scene. " Rise and then he reaches out to help " Horse" up. ( Peter and Jesus moment on the water)

Jon's Last Supper moment is found in the Shield Hall just before he is stabbed.

Both Jon and Dany experience a betrayal by a person or persons who are close to them.

Brothers in Jon's case and Jorah in Danys.

Danny has already had one resurrection moment when she steps into the fire and is not killed but comes out with dragons. Notice how the people who see her ressurection view her after this. Her story arch goes to some seeing her as a god and a mother. What will we see with Jon?

I think Jon Snow is having or will have his resurrection moment in the next book.

Will someone else's blood be required by the old gods to resurrect him? I don't know if George will write it that way or not. Dany had blood sacrifice for her in the fire. Will it be Theon for Jon? Or will Jon Snow himself,,,will his blood shed from the knife wounds be enough to resurrect the dragon. We will have to wait to see which way Martin writes it :) This may also be a clue for us in the next book about who is the Messianic figure and who is the Anti Messianic figure.

Ghost is Jon's spirit...Martin has written this story so carefully sometimes even using the same words or words that convey the exact same thoughts that Jesus Christ had. If Jon is in a coma or dead..its his spirit Ghost that he Jon is in and its Ghost who would be interacting with his brothers and his followers. Once again a very biblical scene.

Will Jon be in a coma or dead in an ice cell for three days with Ghost communicating to his followers?

Another story arch that is Biblical is the fact that both Dany and Jon are embraced or accepted by the outsiders but disliked by the establishment.

The wildings like Jon and the freed people love Dany but the establishment is not happy. In some ways both Dany and Jon are playing the part of Moses. Jon leads a people through a Wall..Red Sea. Dany leads a people she has freed from slavery.

Jon's story arch with his brothers is very poignant and similar to Jesus time with his disciples..including the betrayal by a brother.

Not that Martin has written their stories as only using christian theology, there is Norse and other religious overtones to their characters as well. Martin is really a brilliant writer. He has managed to combine skillfully all these various myths from Norse, Celtic, Eastern myths and religions into two characters brilliantly. Sorry if this is convoluted ..just my random thoughts and I am so pc illiterate I can not yet understand how to edit or quote or spell check yet in the forum.

[Nymeria_Snow]

Or will someone actually give their own life freely? (As Beric did for Catelyn, but he had very little left to give.)

Ooh, that's a good little sidenote there. Maybe if the person sacrificing themself by the red god's magic wasn't like Beric but a normal person who lived a single life, then jon could be resurrected just as he was ( as opposed to what lady stoneheart became )

[Stoned Dragon]

I agree its going to come down to blood sacrifice, but I'm not sure of the process.

I lean towards it being similar to Dany's funeral pyre. We know that because of the Others and the fear of wights, dead bodies at the Wall are burned. We also know that Melisandre has no qualms about burning people to increase her own powers. It seems to me that the easiest solution would be for a funeral pyre to be raised for Jon Snow by Melisandre (ala Dany in AGoT). If three dragon eggs + a Targaryan + a witch + a dead king + an animal = three live dragons and a Targaryan resurrection, then Jon Snow + Mel + Theon (or Stannis, or Jon's own blood) + Ghost should be enough to revive Jon Snow.

[Gendels Children]

If Jon is dead/ while Jon is "away", things at the Wall will get VERY nasty, VERY fast! Jon is the link that, although none of them recognize it, maintains the very delicate balance between Stannis, the NW and the wildlings.

At this point they think Stannis is dead, so Selyse (who thinks she should have control of the NW) will declare Shireen as queen and herself as regent until Shireen comes of age.

She will try to force the men of the NW to go get revenge for her husband and impose on them her plan of integrating the wildlings into her army. This will set the NW against her.

She will also try to impose her religion on the wildlings, try to marry them off by force and make them bow, which the wildlings will recent and oppose.

Meanwhile, the wildlings and the NW will be fighting a ongst themselves since the NW wants to be rid of the wildlings- and I think the wildlings will feel some sort of layalty to Jon want to avenge him.

With these internal battles going on at the Wall, the Others will have it sooo much easier when they attack the wall. Scary!

that exactly what I thought. GRRM needed to get Jon out of the way for a while for things to get really bad, he needed the wall to collapse (metaphorically) so someone (probs Jon) could come and save it and the realm. what better way to do this than one of his fave go to moves to get peoples blood pumping the killing-off-but-not-really trick. this also gives the chance for a second birth, to either make him AA or get people speculating more about it

[Gendels Children]

IMO Jon will come back, im not to clear on the details yet, but I know their wasn't all this build up of his character for nothing. I think Jon will be our main Hero. I think his end will come in the last book (sadly :crying:) he will do some grand selfless gesture to sacrifice him self for his family and for the realm. I was sure for a while that all the remaining starks will get back together after thinking more into the whole, in the winter the lone wolf dies but the pack survives thing, also Jojens dreams what the wolves will rise again, as well as the face the last book was originally going to be called "A Time For Wolves" reading into that what you will. but now im starting to think Jon might be the lone wolf that dies, I mean Ghost was excluded from the pack when they found the, could this be a foreboding omen, his family may all get back together aside from him. this is sad but im thinking GRRM wont be giving us a very happy ending especially for Jon Snow, who seems almost destined to have the burden of a dark sad fate crushing down on him. poor Jon

[The_Red_Viper_of_Dorne]

I thought that the "Someone Large and Hairy" was supposed to be Tormund, but Wun Wun works well enough for me.

But now seriously, Jon has a lot of friends over at the wall: Tormund and his men. They both outnumber and outpower the men of the NW. I mean, Bowen Marsh and all these guys are just stewards, builders and maybe some mediocre rangers. Tormund is "someone big and hairy" to begin with, and he has an army of 5000 crazed wildlings at his back.

I don't think the Wildlings are going to stand idly by when Jon's being murdered.

[Gendels Children]

Bran is the winged wolf in Jojen's greendreams, and Jon is attacked by his black brothers. It will be Bran and BR that save Jon. Possibly with a "life pays for life" sacrifice from Asha. Why else would the name of her last POV be "The Sacrifice" when she isn't the one being sacrificed?

also in this story the 'rescuing' of the princess who he hade his wife, is an awful lot like stealing a wilding woman for a wife. I mean he killed armies of her men sworn to protect her. than she goes with his and gains a 'violent love' for him, while making him agree to protect her