[Book Spoilers] Official Theon Thread

[I'll pay the iron price]

I always pictured lady Hornwood as Gina Mckee

I'd like to see the Hornwood story line dropped in, its an important part of Ramsays character and there is plenty of time.

It will give Iwan more screen time too

[BananaSpice]

I bet they won't just show torture/gore over and over ... sprinkling some throughout the season, mixed with a variety of Ramsay character building should work to set up enough sympathy for Theon, tbh. I mean, I definitely want enough material to keep Alfie heavily in this season and next ... but they can start with early ADWD stuff by mid fourth season, surely (since ADWD and AFFC both begin around the same time) - like Moat Cailin (or something like it) to show his "devotion" to Ramsay, etc. and then all the fake wedding and creepy stuff w/ Roose to follow.

[Er Rn]

Theon's arc is what I'm most looking forward to this season. Alfie is killing it!

Agree! He was the best part of season 2 IMO and I can't wait to watch him continue to develop as Theon.

[shiola]

I'm rewatching the series with someone who has never seen it. We just started season 2 and he doesn't ever remember Theon and he doesn't get why I appreciate him. It's so hard not to spoil anything. Seething Theon love/hate/too many feels, from me. <3 I don't want to watch this week's episode.

[Daenerys Must Die]

I'm rewatching the series with someone who has never seen it. We just started season 2 and he doesn't ever remember Theon and he doesn't get why I appreciate him. It's so hard not to spoil anything. Seething Theon love/hate/too many feels, from me. <3 I don't want to watch this week's episode.

I'm doing the same with a few friends of mine (we are just starting season 2 now - I'd like to get them caught up to at least start watching season 3 by the 6th or 7th episode) and I'm experiencing that same issue.. I think once he heads off to Pyke in season 2 they'll get a better understanding of his background (they didn't understand the animosity between he and Catelyn as well as the standoffish manner Jon has towards him) I suppose this is probably the case with most non book-readers and I found myself trying to explain the background of it as to why he's a ward to the Stark's but there's far too much history (i.e Balon's rebellion etc.) to try and explain without overloading people with information; at the same time they're simultaneously trying to get a grasp of all of the different characters that are being thrown at them.

As far as the Theon stuff - It's definitely what I was most anticipating in season 3 simply because I think Iwan will do a good job at making people hate him (I hope that DnD are doing this in order to build up another character you despise since we will be losing one in the next year or so of the show presumably) At the same time it gives book readers a bit of extra insight into what was only indirectly reflected upon in the book.

My guess is Ramsay will reveal himself tonight after he gives Theon a horse and has him flee.. Since it's a very minor subplot I'm not sure we'll get to see the 'hunt' until next week but it's a good break from some of the other storylines and DnD trying to just cram Tyrion in for the hell of it in scenes that really accomplish nothing in terms of plot development.

[shiola]

I have such confusing and conflicting feelings about all this season three stuff w/ Theon ... I mean, it breaks my heart b/c I love Theon to death, but I'm also a bit of a masochist, and Iwan Rheon is reasonably attractive, so it's kind of the "scared and horny" thing - http://ic.pics.livej...71_original.gif :dunno:

Masochism has nothing to do with liking watching people getting tortured.

[Dove]

Yeah, can we please just have a normal discussion about the progression of Theon's and Ramsay's story/character without people dragging in their goofy kinks involving fictional characters? I'm really not trying to be an ass (and probably failing) - I don't care what gets people going, but there's so many more interesting things to discuss than ~~ooh ramsay-chan so hawt~~. Tumblr's that way.

[shiola]

I'm already dreading the Theon/Ramsay shipping in tumblr :ack: :leaving:

I know. People are going to be using torture and rape as a way to sexualize their relationship. There will probably be "Theon gets raped and he likes it" fics, which is utterly disgusting and is the opposite of what the Theon/Ramsay storyline is there for. I mean, I'm an avid shipper in my fandoms, but Theon/Ramsay crosses lines I do not believe should be crossed.

I have to give up on the Theon tag on Tumblr at this point. It's all people saying he's getting what he deserves, that it should be done worse to him, or that ALFIE LOOKS SO HOT WITH HIS SHIRT OFF OMG I AM SO TERRIBLE FOR THINKING THIS LOL BUT ITS TRUE~!!!1!!1. I don't know which three of those statements is the worst, tbqh.

Alfie Allen ended up being a way better actor than I thought he would be. He's going to be utterly heart-breaking as Reek.

I agree 10000%. He's just incredible. I wouldn't feel for Theon nearly as much if his acting was not so perfect.

[Darkstar For King]

I wonder if they'll prove the "Theon has no penis" theory in the show.

His arc is one of my favourites this season, I'm sure Alfie will be great!

[TomBadgerlock]

I know. People are going to be using torture and rape as a way to sexualize their relationship. There will probably be "Theon gets raped and he likes it" fics, which is utterly disgusting and is the opposite of what the Theon/Ramsay storyline is there for. I mean, I'm an avid shipper in my fandoms, but Theon/Ramsay crosses lines I do not believe should be crossed.

I have to give up on the Theon tag on Tumblr at this point. It's all people saying he's getting what he deserves, that it should be done worse to him, or that ALFIE LOOKS SO HOT WITH HIS SHIRT OFF OMG I AM SO TERRIBLE FOR THINKING THIS LOL BUT ITS TRUE~!!!1!!1. I don't know which three of those statements is the worst

This exactly. If Theon was female this situation would be extremely, extremely different. It's pathetic that anyone could think like this merely because he is a man. Rape and torture are not things to cheer about in any circumstances. These people should be held accountable for the utter shit they say. Could you imagine a Tumblr reaction to a man being all excited about the rape of a woman on TV and how hot she looked when she was getting raped?

[Talbot]

My viewer buddies who haven't read the books are intrigued by Theon's arc, which is great.

[shiola]

I wonder if they'll prove the "Theon has no penis" theory in the show.

His arc is one of my favourites this season, I'm sure Alfie will be great!

I never thought he didn't have a penis. I thought Ramsay just flayed the skin off it to the point he couldn't use it because it's deformed or too painful to use or something. But him not having one makes much more sense.

[Dove]

Goddamn tumblr is part of the reason why I wish they'd cast someone else for Ramsay instead of Iwan Rheon even though I love him to pieces. If they'd casted an ugly bastard that totally matched his book description I doubt he'd have less "fans". Either way the sexualization that some people percieve in such a monstrous, abusive, viscerally horrifying relationship is missing the point so hard it makes me wonder how these people even read the books in the first place and how hard they're ignoring the source material. ANYWAY...

There's a few quotes that support the complete absense of a penis like "I have no-" and "Like he took that other thing, too" but it seems like this could point to mutilation, too, and it seems perfectly in-character for Ramsay to do so. I think at one point he taunts him, saying something like "are your breeches getting tight?" and then Theon thinks he dares not have sex with the wildling woman, rather than he can't - a little odd. I think we can all agree that either possibility is still horrific though.

[Bastard of Balmora]

Goddamn tumblr is part of the reason why I wish they'd cast someone else for Ramsay instead of Iwan Rheon even though I love him to pieces. If they'd casted an ugly bastard that totally matched his book description I doubt he'd have less "fans". Either way the sexualization that some people percieve in such a monstrous, abusive, viscerally horrifying relationship is missing the point so hard it makes me wonder how these people even read the books in the first place and how hard they're ignoring the source material. ANYWAY...

There's a few quotes that support the complete absense of a penis like "I have no-" and "Like he took that other thing, too" but it seems like this could point to mutilation, too, and it seems perfectly in-character for Ramsay to do so. I think at one point he taunts him, saying something like "are your breeches getting tight?" and then Theon thinks he dares not have sex with the wildling woman, rather than he can't - a little odd. I think we can all agree that either possibility is still horrific though.

Thank you! I'm a fan of Ramsay from a literary perspective and the general unpredictable nature of his character (the final Theon chapter of ACoK STILL gives me a sinister feeling of dread with what Ramsay manages to do) but this "Oh I wish he'd flay me! He's so darkly misunderstood and sexy!!!" non-sense speaks to the lowest level of vapid fangirl-ism there is. You simply miss the point, and if ever put in a situation with a real Ramsay you'd wish for a very quick death.

That said, this storyline is the one I'm most looking forward to and have been since S1.

[BananaSpice]

Masochism has nothing to do with liking watching people getting tortured.

Please. Just take your judgment elsewhere. It was simply an offhanded comment. The anti-shipping brigade for Ramsay/Theon is kind of absurd with unfounded beliefs and is oozing with self-righteousness. Very few people are looking at this as a healthy/normal relationship and we certainly don't condone real life abuse or rape. It's a work of fiction - not real. If seeing good looking Alfie Allen on a torture cross is a bit exciting, there's nothing wrong with that - we know that he's not actually being hurt. Even if his acting is so good that it breaks our hearts and makes us feel sorry for his character. I think this whole "Oh, we love Ramsay, please flay/torture me!" thing is a figment of people's imagination or they are missing some tongue-in-cheek joke.

But seriously, I'm not really here to discuss that. I just want to discuss Theon's arc in season 3 (particularly in this episode) and how they are handling it / if there will be changes / additions / subtractions / etc. How they are going to handle Ramsay's character / Bolton background information, etc.

EDIT: that being said, I get REALLY angry at people who say that Theon deserves the torture. That is absolutely not true at all. Nobody deserves that. Also, it is aggravating when people talk about how they wouldn't break / would escape / somehow kill themselves / etc ... b/c how could you even comprehend being in that situation?

[greatgeek]

Is anyone else really curious if they'll work Lady Hornwood or the Kyra escape story in these next couple of seasons? Although it looks like we're getting something pretty similar to Kyra happening in these first couple of episodes, just with Ramsay taking a more hands-on approach. I'm wondering how Jeyne Poole will work in the story too, if it'll be an existing character or someone already established, but that's pretty far in the future to idly speculate on.

Next season. IIRC Wyman Manderly was involved in that somehow so they could introduce him, or at least mention him (and perhaps some of the other lords from ADWD), before the Davos scenes in season 5.

[Dove]

Calling it an "anti-shipping brigade" is attributing a lot more care than most of us probably have, and uh I don't think it's that self-righteous to say "Whoa being all that excited or aroused by the literal destruction of a man's body, mind, soul, and entire identity through systematic and brutal torture is a little weird." It is weird, and just because a lot of insular fandom-y communities like tumblr condone that kind of thing doesn't make it not, fictional characters or no. Especially when it goes back to the kind of stuff Vis mentioned, the "this character totally enjoys the rape and torture!!". Euughh.

Theon's arc is one of the most meaningful and tragic arcs that GRRM's ever written, if not the most, and it's so goofy and surreal to see it reduced to "whoa hawt."

@ Bolton's Bastard

Ramsay is definitely my favorite villain of GRRM's, he's so bizarrely compelling. At first he seems like such a cartoonish, one-dimensional representation of evil, but the further you read into the text the more layers there are. He's one of those utterly psychotic, absolutely love-to-hate wildly unpredictable madman kind of villains and in that way he's really enjoyable as a character.

[shiola]

Please. Just take your judgment elsewhere.

(shortened the quote for length) My judgement? Jesus, calm down. You used the term masochism incorrectly. From the way I understood your post, you were looking for the term "sadism". That's all I meant.

And I agree with huntington here, 100%. It's not an anti-shipping brigade, and it's not self-righteous. Sadism and masochism in the confines of a healthy/consenting relationship aren't a problem and it's nothing I judge. That's not what the Theon/Ramsay relationship is.

[shiola]

There's a few quotes that support the complete absense of a penis like "I have no-" and "Like he took that other thing, too" but it seems like this could point to mutilation, too, and it seems perfectly in-character for Ramsay to do so. I think at one point he taunts him, saying something like "are your breeches getting tight?" and then Theon thinks he dares not have sex with the wildling woman, rather than he can't - a little odd. I think we can all agree that either possibility is still horrific though.

I have no idea why I thought he still had one, based on those quotes. Obviously it's gone. Thank you for the quotes.

[BananaSpice]

Calling it an "anti-shipping brigade" is attributing a lot more care than most of us probably have, and uh I don't think it's that self-righteous to say "Whoa being all that excited or aroused by the literal destruction of a man's body, mind, soul, and entire identity through systematic and brutal torture is a little weird." It is weird, and just because a lot of insular fandom-y communities like tumblr condone that kind of thing doesn't make it not, fictional characters or no. Especially when it goes back to the kind of stuff Vis mentioned, the "this character totally enjoys the rape and torture!!". Euughh.

Theon's arc is one of the most meaningful and tragic arcs that GRRM's ever written, if not the most, and it's so goofy and surreal to see it reduced to "whoa hawt."

I completely agree, but I'm not going to judge anyone for their kinks. For most, it's probably just certain *aspects* of the situation that might trigger a bit of excitement ... certainly not every detail. *shrugs* I mean, whatever floats your boat.

(shortened the quote for length) My judgement? Jesus, calm down. You used the term masochism incorrectly. From the way I understood your post, you were looking for the term "sadism". That's all I meant.

And I agree with huntington here, 100%. It's not an anti-shipping brigade, and it's not self-righteous. Sadism and masochism in the confines of a healthy/consenting relationship aren't a problem and it's nothing I judge. That's not what the Theon/Ramsay relationship is.

Sorry to be on the defense, but I've seen A LOT of this same sentiment ALL OVER the internet lately. I also did mean masochist, I def know the difference ... it can go both ways with seeing things depicted on screen / in lit.