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Ran

How would you rate episode 303?

How would you rate episode 303?  

703 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      5
    • 2
      1
    • 3
      4
    • 4
      6
    • 5
      17
    • 6
      11
    • 7
      75
    • 8
      183
    • 9
      287
    • 10
      114


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He said he hasn't read them because he didn't want to know too much or something like that back at the emmy panel a few weeks ago.

Thank you Winterfellian!

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8/10. I could have given it more, but I just cannot get over that Dany scene:

"Valar Morghulis"

"Yes, all men must die. But we are not men"

Hated it so much. I can get over anything else, but just NOT that. Just WHY??!

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

Why? You mean the 'we are not men' part?

It's straight out of Tolkien: Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

I loved it, tho not sure D&D were thinking of Tolkien , but it's a good zinger.

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Gave this one and 8. I agreed with everything Ran wrote about this one, including the lack of criticism of Stannis' obsession with Mel. I think that was implied sufficiently in the books that it's consistent. Final musical cut was...not good.

Edited by Former Lord of Winterfell

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Was pleasantly surprised to see Ser Jorah's 'And Rhaegar Died' line, although it wasn't really as powerful as in the books (maybe because in ASOS it's the final line of a chapter and so has more punch.)

Since I mostly skimmed the Jaime chapters in ASOS I didn't know at what point Jaime's hand gets cut off, but when Locke had him pushed down and was holding the knife I knew this was it... but I was still surprised when Locke seemed to relent, then SLASH! 'A bear there WAS!'

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I'd rather ask why it's important that we know? They could easily have seen her at some point and the idea that the show must spell every little thing out to us is not very appealing to me.

It's a plot-hole considering that no one outside of Robb's camp has heard that he is married. That's a plot-hole within itself.

Not if she has a plan. And she had hardly had time to step outside of the meeting with Kraznys so I'd rather say that it's extremely impatient to expect her to free the slave within the first minute of owning her.

Maybe it's not a plot-hole then, but it's certainly inconsistent with her characterisation. In the books she frees Missandei as soon as she possibly can, she doesn't say "You belong to me now".

So now you're making up how her visions work and call it a plot hole because of that? That's even more laughable than your post about how intelligent people seemingly don't need to understand subjectivity and objectivity.

If you didn't know where you were going, you would not get on a boat/ship and find your destination there. That is... really stupid. What does she tell the captain? "Oh, you can go this way... But I'm not sure where I'm supposed to go yet. Sail around for a bit and I'll let you know where R'hllor wants me to go." ??? It's stupid, and very bad writing.

The deal with Pod seemed to me that Tyrion had paid the whores before and to include the service of making him think that he didn't need to pay him with the gold Tyrion left while Pod was there. Something to boost Pod's very obvious lack of confidence. That's the simplest and most available explanation, both with what happened and how Tyrion and Bronn reacts. Pod says that he did things with the whores and of course no whore would actually refuse money for her services.

It's too ambiguous. The obvious solution is that LF is giving Tyrion a freebie for helping Ros, and as I said before this doesn't really make sense because Tyrion didn't help Ros. We can assume that Tyrion pre-paid them, but there's no real evidence to support that view.

The part with Jorah wanting to buy Unsullied but they are low on money is the only thing I find hard to grasp and can buy as a legit plot hole. The rest seem either like wanting the show to be extremely obvious with every detail, not having the patience to accept that we don't have all the info on all parts yet, or are just interpretations of things that I don't think are valid/the most logical.

I'm glad we can agree on this point.

The show does not need to be "extremely obvious with every detail", but it should not be extremely vague either.

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They are really nailing Jaime and Brienne. The loss of Vargo Hoat and making them Bolton's men, makes a lot of sense. Jaime and Brienne are probably my favourite part of the show at the moment.

The Arya and HotPie goodbye scene was lovely, although I wish they would put in more of her sense of loss, and no one sticking by her, but that's a tiny niggle. Wish we could see more of Sandor, though its good we are finally seeing him! Yay!

Theon's storyline is great...the only problem is that last season they actually made me like Roose Bolton and this season they are making me like Ramsay. The actor maybe a tad too good looking for the role.

Dany's storyline and character are much better. Really looking forward to her story this season.

Sam's story is going well I thought in this episode.

Still not liking the way they are having to make all the Tullys look like idiots and avoiding that Robb lost a huge portion of the army because of the Talisa change. But there is still time for development of the Blackfish and Edmure, I hope.

The only real downside in this episode for me was the awful whores scene and the gossipy discussion afterwards. They really need to stop with the over whore scenes when other characters are not being developed. Also I am really getting fed up of Bronn. Jerome Flynn is an excellent actor but they are cutting out other characters' development because they seem to like creating scenes with him. Also I'm not against the nudity, but there needs to be more balance with attractive male nudity. However the contortionist was just over the top. Really was gratuitous.

Edited by Rapsie

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It's a plot-hole considering that no one outside of Robb's camp has heard that he is married. That's a plot-hole within itself.

You're drawing your conclusions backwards. Obviously people have heard that he's married, otherwise Martin wouldn't have commented on it. A reason why we don't hear other people talk about it can be that they are deliberately hiding the plans relating to that.

Maybe it's not a plot-hole then, but it's certainly inconsistent with her characterisation. In the books she frees Missandei as soon as she possibly can, she doesn't say "You belong to me now".

This isn't the book, this is the show. What's relevant in a discussion like this is if she's being consistent with the show's version.

It's too ambiguous. The obvious solution is that LF is giving Tyrion a freebie for helping Ros, and as I said before this doesn't really make sense because Tyrion didn't help Ros. We can assume that Tyrion pre-paid them, but there's no real evidence to support that view.

How is it the obvious solution when you say that there are clear evidence against it? The scene plays out just as it would if Tyrion had arranged it, so that's the most obvious solution to me. The way Tyrion and Bronn go on about how it's so strange that the whores didn't take the money leaves me with two things; that they are suspecting a plot (nothing else indicates that) or that they are acting in accordance to what Tyrion did to boost Pod's confidence.

I'm glad we can agree on this point.

The show does not need to be "extremely obvious with every detail", but it should not be extremely vague either.

It could of course also have to do with Jorah underestimating how expensive it was. They are obviously not going to establish their entire army in Astapor anyway, seeing how even 8000 soldiers aren't much to take an entire continent with, even if some Houses join you. They have to take baby steps.

As for being vague I don't have any problems with that. I like being treated as intelligent enough to think for myself without obvious facts and I don't think that the show makes that too hard.

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Just to point out that the reason Locke's men didn't rape Brienne while Jaime was talking to him is that Locke tells them that he's going to have her first (leaders privilege I guess :P) so they wouldn't do anything but beat her until he took his turn.

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Personally I would give this episode a 7 at most. I enjoyed it as ever, but I wasn't thrilled by it either.

The first Riverrun scene, the chair moving, Dany's improving storyline and the acting in the Jaime and Brienne scenes were good.

The rest I thought was only OK - it just didn't grab me particularly. And the song at the end seemed misplaced. Completely ruined the moment IMHO.

So far I haven't got particularly excited by this season. To me it feels a bit directionless - like if I didn't know what happens from reading the books, that I would just be watching the characters move around with little real understanding of what's going on or why it might be significant.

Also, the Jon storyline has been so poor for so long now that it almost feels pointless. This upsets me as I really enjoyed Jon's story in ASOS. Hopefully it gets better soon.

To end on a positive note, everything looks great this year. I don't know what they've done but Westeros is looking a bit more real.

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Almost perfect.

I'll always want more Dany and Arya, and less political KL stuff. But even the KL scenes were good this episode!

My partner was all like "why are you cringing like that?" in the last 30 seconds. They did that bit perfectly (even though i still wish it was the dothraki guy with an arakh).

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Has anyone else noticed the 1-10 graph forms a bell-curve that creeps closer to 10 with each episode...?

So will next week be better? or will it buck the trend?

I don't think they can get much closer to perfect, but i hate the thought of it getting crap in the last few eps of the season.

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They dumbed Theon's arc down last season. This season his arc is entirely new as he wasn't even around in the books. So I'm not sure how you can say it was dumbed down, unless you are including the previous season.

I'm not a fan of the Theon scenes this season, but that's largely because they are predictable and as book readers we all know what's going to happen in the end anyway. So it's wasting valuable screentime that could be used for actual scenes from the book.

Kinda hard to say they dumbed down an arc that isn't in the books. I think Theon's arc is quite plausible.

Yes, I guess I should have clarified that I was talking about the series as a whole, not just this episode..

In the torture the left out (possibly the most significant part) the whole flaying thing. May be too grotesque for TV? If I remember right, Theon gets hunted down by the "bitches" that he is forced to share 'food' with later on.. I did not see Ramsey playing that big of a role in the torture, while in the book Theon was tortured mainly because Ramsey enjoyed it.. I don't think the rest of his men how or if Theon suffered. Theon was Ramsey's play thing.. The whole thing about calling him Reek, making him forget his identity is very important imo in his transformation..

and I may be wrong, but so far it seems that a lot of that stuff is going to be missing in the TV series.. instead we are going to see that Ramsey play a different psychological game with Theon where Ramsey plays Theon's savior in the beginning.. However, I am having a hard time believing that Theon would buy this whole thing , after all.. it was Ramsey who betrays him at winterfell and slaughters his army!!

Edited by Wyman_Manderly

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Yes, I guess I should have clarified that I was talking about the series as a whole, not just this episode..

In the torture the left out (possibly the most significant part) the whole flaying thing. May be too grotesque for TV? If I remember right, Theon gets hunted down by the "bitches" that he is forced to share 'food' with later on.. I did not see Ramsey playing that big of a role in the torture, while in the book Theon was tortured mainly because Ramsey enjoyed it.. I don't think the rest of his men how or if Theon suffered. Theon was Ramsey's play thing.. The whole thing about calling him Reek, making him forget his identity is very important imo.. and I may be wrong, but so far it seems that a lot of that stuff is going to be missing in the TV series.. instead we are going to see that Ramsey play a different psychological game with Theon where Ramsey plays Theon's savior in the beginning.. However, I am having a hard time believing that Theon would buy this whole thing just because it was Ramsey who betrays him at winterfell and slaughters his army!!

How is it going to be left out? You think Ramsey is just taking him to Asha and Theon's torture is all done? Ramsey kills his own men and gets Theon to trust him. He says he'll make him a lord, basically thanking him for his life and he owes him a debt. Ramsey gave Theon life, and he is going to brutally strip it all away. Theon has no idea Ramsey was behind the sack of Winterfell and neither does the viewer. Wait for the season to play out, but even then you don't seem to be thinking about it correctly. Theon's arc is one of the best things of this season.

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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Despite the stupid whore scene, Robb laughing at grandpa's funeral and Stannis' character being ruined even more, this was somehow still my favorite of the season. I can feel the pace picking up and think it's going to mostly be uphill from here on out. I hope.

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How is it going to be left out? You think Ramsey is just taking him to Asha and Theon's torture is all done? Ramsey kills his own men and gets Theon to trust him. He says he'll make him a lord, basically thanking him for his life and he owes him a debt. Ramsey gave Theon life, and he is going to brutally strip it all away. Theon has no idea Ramsey was behind the sack of Winterfell and neither does the viewer. Wait for the season to play out, but even then you don't seem to be thinking about it correctly. Theon's arc is one of the best things of this season.

No, I think they are wasting precious airtime trying to make an awesome story line 'better' (and I fear in the process they will make it worse).. I don't think we will have enough air time to see the whole transformation.. like I said, I felt that the 'dumbing down' started a while back, pretty much right after Theon burns his letter to Rob.. I feel that this whole re-route was kind of unnecessary (call me purist if you will).. Another Theon escape with a dog chase seems unlikely and repetitive at this point.. but again, I have been wrong before.. they might be able to pull Theon off, but I am sure others will have to give way in that case.. I guess we have to wait and see how far this goes..

Kind of like how they ruined the Cersei-Joffrey relationship thing (at least for me).. I don't really like what they have done with the Arya character since she was brought to Harenhall at all either.. But I understand they had to flesh out Tywin Lannister's character some how.. I just don't like how they sacrificed Arya's character in the process.

Edited by Wyman_Manderly

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No, I think they are wasting precious airtime trying to make an awesome story line 'better' (and I fear in the process they will make it worse).. I don't think we will have enough air time to see the whole transformation.. like I said, I felt that the 'dumbing down' started a while back.. I feel that this whole re-route was kind of unnecessary (call me purist if you will).. but again, I have been wrong before..

Kind of like how they ruined the Cersei-Joffrey relationship

thing (at least for me).. I don't really like what they have done with the Arya character since she was brought to Harenhall at all..

Well I'm not sure how you can call yourself a purist if you think it's a waste of air time to portray one of the best, albeit most troubling storylines of the books. It just can't happen like it does in the books and still be powerful. Theon has absolutely nothing to do the next 2 seasons so there's plenty of air time.

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The Excellent:

Arya, Gendry and HotPie- "Winterhell", wolfie cookie and "Don't burn your fingers" cracked me up. I will sorely miss seeing Gendry by Arya's side in future seasons. He's a great actor, along with Maisie. I loved the humor:)

Dany- This was a first for me. Her acting was AMAZING in this episode! I admired her and the storyline and that did not happen while reading. I was not pleased when she renegued in the book and torched the guy. I am looking forward to it in the show.

Podrik and the whores: another first for me. This weekly T+A scene was great! It's the first one that I loved and didn't roll my eyes at. The humor here was also greatly appreciated.

Robb, Blackfish, Edmure, Cat were excellent. Although, I didn't like the disrespect Brynden showed Edmure when he pushed him out of the way. That was written poorly by D+D. Side note: Damn,look at Blackfish! His face is glorious. Now I finally have someone my age I can ogle without feeling guilty for ogling 20 yr old Jon and 40 yr old Jaime.

Brienne + Jaime- loved this week's acting and lines. Much more so than last weeks. It was nice seeing Brienne's face show other emotions besides rigid determination.

Council Scene- excellent. Cersei's juvenile theatrics were a great touch.

The Good:

Old Bear and Sam at Crasters- I like how they are building up to the mutiny.

The Terrible:

Stannis- OMG STFU please. Terrible, terrible writing

Talisa- weak scene

Mance, Jon and the wildlings- The crop ring was interesting. I'm not liking Mance yet or his lines:( The North is my favorite arc in the books but it's very boring thusfar this season. I know what's coming of course, but it doesn't have to be tedious leading up to the Lake scene and the battle at the gate. I fear the directors think that cave sex will be all the excitement we need from episode 1-8. Let Tormund tell some wonderful tales or give us some old history to make these scenes more interesting!

I can't rate Theon because I fast forward through torture scenes.

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