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How would you rate episode 303?

How would you rate episode 303?  

703 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      5
    • 2
      1
    • 3
      4
    • 4
      6
    • 5
      17
    • 6
      11
    • 7
      75
    • 8
      183
    • 9
      287
    • 10
      114


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I thoughy it was great 8 or 9/10.

I am loving Dany this season far more than I ever did in the books, the Tullys, Arya, Crasters and most of all Jaime and Brienne were fabulous.

I'll even forgive them the pointless brothel scene for getting a reference to Mereenese knot in there - LOL!

I am not getting the Stannis characterisation but maybe they are going somewhere with it...

The one thing that really bothered me is what was NOT there, namely Sam slaying the Other. I guess, as they got to Crasters already (which worked fine, except it needed a bit mor NW rumbling dissension which they had started building last week) this is now not going to happen or at least not in front of Sam's NW brothers. I think that is a real shame and together with how they cut out the fight with the Others and changed Sam's plot there, it s my biggest objection to the season so far

But a great effort overall!

Edited by MrsManderly

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Patrick.

Such a hater.

Yes, I am - rating it 8/10 clearly means I'm a hater. :rolleyes:

But I do hate parts of it - the poor writing, mainly. I hate that I honestly believed in this show and thought it had potential to be the best show on air. With all its plot holes and gratuitous violence and female nudity, I feel embarassed that I recommended this show to my family and friends.

We didn't know of Robb's plan in the book until they tell Edmure. And even so how's that a plot hole?

It fit with Robb's actions in the book, particularly as we actually knew he told Edmure not to fight Tywin. But in the show it felt forced.

That was poorly worded, but I think he meant the crag and beyond. Not sure how you call that a plot hole.

"The crag and beyond"? What else does he have in the West? So yes, I do think this is a plot hole. Viewers have no idea what Robb has accomplished so far.

I'm pretty sure she made that part of the deal for the Unsullied.

In the books I'm 99% sure that Kraznys gives Missandei to her. In the books it demonstrates Kraznys' greed for a dragon and his lack of respect for his slaves. In the show... I don't know why it's there.

" In episode 2F09 when Itchy plays Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib twice in succession, yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something? Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder."

:rolleyes:

I've made a huge list of plot-holes, some of which are incredibly obvious to any intelligent viewers. I was deliberately nit-picking because some of the people in this thread act like the show is the best thing on television with absolutely no problems. But that couldn't be further from the truth, as I quite clearly demonstrated.

If you don't think plot-holes are important - great. Enjoy the show, because many more will be coming your way.

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I've made a huge list of plot-holes, some of which are incredibly obvious to any intelligent viewers. I was deliberately nit-picking because some of the people in this thread act like the show is the best thing on television with absolutely no problems. But that couldn't be further from the truth, as I quite clearly demonstrated.

If you don't think plot-holes are important - great. Enjoy the show, because many more will be coming your way.

The only thing is, these are minor plot holes, not gaping ones that have to be addressed. The show has 10 hours of running time per season. If you seriously expect the show to spend time talking about every single detail of Robb's war plans, and end up being disappointed, you're going to have an absolutely miserable time watching the show.

Oh, and cute comment about how only "intelligent viewers" pick up on things like this. It didn't come across as arrogant or elitist at all :)

Edited by Pinkie Baelish

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8/10. I could have given it more, but I just cannot get over that Dany scene:

"Valar Morghulis"

"Yes, all men must die. But we are not men"

Hated it so much. I can get over anything else, but just NOT that. Just WHY??!

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

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Really enjoyed the episode overall, but had a few pet peeves... 8/10

The Pod scene... not a big fan, hope it turns out he just listened to their sob stories, lol :laugh: But the scene was unnecessary, ofc.

Craster talking cannibalism. Okay guys, he's gross enough, no need for that. Really.

Stannis. ...... Just no. He is not needy and clingy like that. Was the biggest issue for me.

Still enjoying Dany scenes, which is all new to me.

They actually made me care a bit for showEdmure - can't stand bookEdmure...still not sure how to feel about that. The Blackfish is awesome!

Loved the Hot Pie scene... they are so cute and awkward... the horrors of war have jaded them but they still care about each other... as awkwardly as they do :wub:

Not sure what to make of Boy... they are making him quite likeable. Really going for shock value later on, I guess :dunno: Locke seems more of a Ramsay figure at the moment though...

Edited by Little Wing

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  • There has been no mention of Robb's plan to lure the Mountain West at all prior to this episode.
  • Also Robb talking about "our country" in the West - what is he referring to?
  • Robb's concern over losing men, but nobody mentions the 4000 soldiers he lost when he married Talisa.
  • Jorah questioning Daenerys in front of Kraznys. Dany's arc last season (whilst badly written) at least led to Jorah realising that he can trust Daenerys because she knows what she's doing.
  • Littlefinger thanking Tyrion for freeing Ros even though Tyrion was the reason Ros was arrested in the first place, and even though Tyrion was incapable of doing anything after the Battle of the Blackwater.
  • Ramsay killing four of his own men.
  • Mance sending a group of 20 to attack Castle Black.
  • Two Lannister children being able to recognise Talisa as Robb's wife, despite no one in King's Landing even being aware of Robb's marriage yet. Or worse: if everyone in King's Landing is aware of Robb breaking his oath to the Freys, why is no one discussing it?
  • Daenerys not freeing Missandei. It's inconsistent with her book characterisation and also the characterisation on the show (she freed her khalasar as soon as she could, and she's always had a strong anti-slavery stance).
  • The lack of funds to pay for Unsullied. Dany could buy around 227 Unsullied if she sold the ship (that isn't hers to sell), her goods, and her Dothraki. So why did Jorah suggest buying Unsullied if Daenerys couldn't afford them?
  • Melisandre getting on a boat and sailing away from Dragonstone without knowing where she has to go.
  • The prostitutes not accepting Tyrion's money (the most likely solution is that Littlefinger arranged a free session to repay Tyrion... but again, this makes little sense; it's not in-line with the show's characterisation of Littlefinger, and it's not in-line with the show's characterisation of Tyrion, who doesn't have any interest in saving money).
  • Brienne being able to fight off her (attempted) rapists for the amount of time it took for Jaime to explain her value to Locke, and her rapists handing her back without a problem.

Excellent points. All stuff I recall thinking about when watching but never took such consideration over. You're right, although I feel more or less strongly about certain scenes for different reasons.

Plot holes are crucial to plug. It's not that they can't fit things in. They have the time, but they're using it in inexplicable ways. IMO they're trying to broaden viewership and losing a bit of artistic integrity. Which is fine, but not what turns me on, personally.

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It's a small council meeting. Why would the population of King's Landing be sitting in a small

Council meeting?

Not what I said. Of course it's a small council. Still too small though, and musical chairs could have been replaced by better dialogue IMO. And I'm talking about generally anyway, at King's Landing. It feels empty, sparse, not like the Kingdom's at war internally and externally.

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The only thing is, these are minor plot holes, not gaping ones that have to be addressed. The show has 10 hours of running time per season. If you seriously expect the show to spend time talking about every single detail of Robb's war plans, and end up being disappointed, you're going to have an absolutely miserable time watching the show.

Oh, and cute comment about how only "intelligent viewers" pick up on things like this. It didn't come across as arrogant or elitist at all :)

Well there was plenty of time in the last episode devoted to Podrick Payne, whores, and moving chairs. So yeah, I do think there was plenty of time to address the plot-holes.

It's true: intelligent viewers will pick up on the plot-holes (the Unsullied, for example), and it will affect their enjoyment of the show. On the other hand, viewers who tune in to see sex workers being treated like objects by clothed men will not pick up on plot-holes.

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I've made a huge list of plot-holes, some of which are incredibly obvious to any intelligent viewers. I was deliberately nit-picking because some of the people in this thread act like the show is the best thing on television with absolutely no problems. But that couldn't be further from the truth, as I quite clearly demonstrated.

This part of your post made me laugh out loud. First of all it seems so desperately arrogant to use the "are incredibly obvious to any intelligent viewers". That clashes quite a bit with what I consider constructive argumentation and even more with the fact that you seemingly don't grasp the concepts of subjectivity and objectivity. Judging from what you wrote you actually think that you can decide for anyone else what the best thing on television is. Even more so you say that GoT being the best thing on TV couldn't be further from the truth, which means that you see it as a fact that it is the worst thing on TV (as that's the furthest thing from being the best). Yet you give the episode an 8, which means that you must really, really, really enjoy TV.

Not sure what to make of Boy... they are making him quite likeable. Really going for shock value later on, I guess :dunno: Locke seems more of a Ramsay figure at the moment though...

They pretty much have to make him seem likable in order to give the viewers the same ride as Theon is getting. The whole point of this is for Ramsay to build up trust so he can truly break him, which is what he was doing in the books (although we just get to hear about some of it from memory).

Edited by Tywin's bastard

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Had to give it a 9.

Almost all scenes were great : the Council, Riverrun, Arya, Samwell, Theon and of course Daenerys and Jaime/Brienne.

The whorehouse scene was fine but I hope the return of the money is a trick from Tyrion.

Jon Snow's scenes are too short.

Disturbed by the final music but not a big issue for me.

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They pretty much have to make him seem likable in order to give the viewers the same ride as Theon is getting. The whole point of this is for Ramsay to build up trust so he can truly break him, which is what he was doing in the books (although we just get to hear about some of it from memory).

No, I agree, but as I said, they are making him quite likeable... His Reek was not likeable :laugh: Anyway, hope it works... I was quite shocked when I read about the Reek/Ramsay identity switch thing, we'll see what the non-readers say when the reveal comes in the show :dunno:

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It's true: intelligent viewers will pick up on the plot-holes (the Unsullied, for example), and it will affect their enjoyment of the show. On the other hand, viewers who tune in to see sex workers being treated like objects by clothed men will not pick up on plot-holes.

That's a bold generalization, don't you think? I noticed plot holes as well, but I didn't consider them being enough that they detract from the overall quality of the episode.

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That's a bold generalization, don't you think? I noticed plot holes as well, but I didn't consider them being enough that they detract from the overall quality of the episode.

If they're tuning in for gratuitous nudity, I doubt they'll be concerned about plot-holes.

Most of the plot-holes were bizzare and actually quite major, so I have to question why you don't think they detracted from the overall quality of the episode. This is why I mentioned the whole "intelligent viewer" thing. It's strange for me to think that anyone can believe an episode is of high quality when it has ANY plot-holes, let alone the number I picked out.

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No, I agree, but as I said, they are making him quite likeable... His Reek was not likeable :laugh: Anyway, hope it works... I was quite shocked when I read about the Reek/Ramsay identity switch thing, we'll see what the non-readers say when the reveal comes in the show :dunno:

Ah, then I get what you mean. You are correct in that this certainly isn't the Reek route he's taking. I would guess that it's both due to them not casting Ramsay the last season and because Reek probably wouldn't seem as "good" as Ramsay is now.

As long as the true Ramsay is good I'm fine with whatever they do up until the revelation though.

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  • There has been no mention of Robb's plan to lure the Mountain West at all prior to this episode.
  • Also Robb talking about "our country" in the West - what is he referring to?
  • Robb's concern over losing men, but nobody mentions the 4000 soldiers he lost when he married Talisa.
  • Jorah questioning Daenerys in front of Kraznys. Dany's arc last season (whilst badly written) at least led to Jorah realising that he can trust Daenerys because she knows what she's doing.
  • Littlefinger thanking Tyrion for freeing Ros even though Tyrion was the reason Ros was arrested in the first place, and even though Tyrion was incapable of doing anything after the Battle of the Blackwater.
  • Ramsay killing four of his own men.
  • Mance sending a group of 20 to attack Castle Black.
  • Two Lannister children being able to recognise Talisa as Robb's wife, despite no one in King's Landing even being aware of Robb's marriage yet. Or worse: if everyone in King's Landing is aware of Robb breaking his oath to the Freys, why is no one discussing it?
  • Daenerys not freeing Missandei. It's inconsistent with her book characterisation and also the characterisation on the show (she freed her khalasar as soon as she could, and she's always had a strong anti-slavery stance).
  • The lack of funds to pay for Unsullied. Dany could buy around 227 Unsullied if she sold the ship (that isn't hers to sell), her goods, and her Dothraki. So why did Jorah suggest buying Unsullied if Daenerys couldn't afford them?
  • Melisandre getting on a boat and sailing away from Dragonstone without knowing where she has to go.
  • The prostitutes not accepting Tyrion's money (the most likely solution is that Littlefinger arranged a free session to repay Tyrion... but again, this makes little sense; it's not in-line with the show's characterisation of Littlefinger, and it's not in-line with the show's characterisation of Tyrion, who doesn't have any interest in saving money).
  • Brienne being able to fight off her (attempted) rapists for the amount of time it took for Jaime to explain her value to Locke, and her rapists handing her back without a problem.

  • First three points are valid. Minor, but valid.
  • There's a big difference between Dany's decisions in Qarth, and choosing to sell one of her dragons. Such an action would take even Jorah, who knows Dany, by surprise.
  • That may be so in the books, but we don't know for sure that on the show, Tyrion was unable to do anything after the Battle. In the books, he's still recovering from his injuries when he asks Tywin for Casterly Rock, in the show he's not. That suggests some passage of time, where he still might have been able to return Ros to LF
  • Completely in character. Ramsay doesn't care about anyone, and unlike Roose he's reckless. Roose would look to conserve his men, Ramsay clearly doesn't. It makes perfect sense for Ramsay to go through all that trouble just to gain Theon's trust.
  • Can't remember off the top of my head how many he sends in the books, but it was around a 100, I think. Many even died climbing the Wall, a possibility he would have been aware off. As of now, we don't know how many of his men will die scaling the Wall
  • The Lannister hostages appear to have been captives for a few days. It's entirely possible they would have heard soldiers talk about Robb's new wife.
  • I thought it was pretty obvious she was buying Missandei in order to free her. This will probably be made clearer later.
  • Good point about the Unsullied. Maybe Jorah was unaware of how many Dany's goods will be able to buy. And they did cut out the whole Illyrio bit, so it would seem a bit strange if Dany showed up with goods out of nowhere.
  • Melisandre said that the fires would lead her.
  • I interpreted the scene as Pod not actually having sex, and simply returning the money and lying about bedding them. He seemed far too shy and naive for a foursome, honestly.
  • This was bugging me as well, but it's possible that while Jaime and Locke were talking, Brienne was still getting beaten up by Locke's men.

They pretty much have to make him seem likable in order to give the viewers the same ride as Theon is getting. The whole point of this is for Ramsay to build up trust so he can truly break him, which is what he was doing in the books (although we just get to hear about some of it from memory).

I was worried that Ramsay seemed too normal in ep2, but his demeanour when he killed his own men put my fears to rest. Even as Reek, Ramsay was always quite unnerving. Maybe we'll see some more of this before the big reveal of his true identity.

Edited by Pinkie Baelish

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  • First three points are valid. Minor, but valid.
  • There's a big difference between Dany's decisions in Qarth, and choosing to sell one of her dragons. Such an action would take even Jorah, who knows Dany, by surprise.
  • That may be so in the books, but we don't know for sure that on the show, Tyrion was unable to do anything after the Battle. In the books, he's still recovering from his injuries when he asks Tywin for Casterly Rock, in the show he's not. That suggests some passage of time, where he still might have been able to return Ros to LF
  • Completely in character. Ramsay doesn't care about anyone, and unlike Roose he's reckless. Roose would look to conserve his men, Ramsay clearly doesn't. It makes perfect sense for Ramsay to go through all that trouble just to gain Theon's trust.
  • Can't remember off the top of my head how many he sends in the books, but it was around a 100, I think. Many even died climbing the Wall, a possibility he would have been aware off. As of now, we don't know how many of his men will die scaling the Wall
  • The Lannister hostages have been captives for a few days. It's entirely possible they would have heard soldiers talk about Robb's new wife.
  • I thought it was pretty obvious she was buying Missandei in order to free her. This will probably be made clearer later.
  • Good point about the Unsullied. Maybe Jorah was unaware of how many Dany's goods will be able to buy. And they did cut out the whole Illyrio bit, so it would seem a bit strange if Dany showed up with goods out of nowhere.
  • Melisandre said that the fires would lead her.
  • I interpreted the scene as Pod not actually having sex, and simply returning the money and lying about bedding them. He seemed far too shy for a foursome, honestly.
  • This was bugging me as well, but it's possible that while Jaime and Locke were talking, Brienne was still getting beaten up by Locke's men.

  • I agree. Still don't think it was in-character though.
  • We're given the impression that he hasn't left his room since the season two finale. And anyway, Ros was freed in time for the finale, whilst Tyrion was unconscious and hadn't visited Cersei. This means Cersei freed her simply because Joffrey didn't die.
  • I agree that Ramsay doesn't care about anyone, but it still feels a little "off" to me. He didn't need to kill four men to win Theon's trust.
  • Yes, many died during the climb. So why only send 20?
  • Why would they be able to recognise her? And why has Robb's marriage not been discussed in King's Landing, anyway? Varys must have spies in Robb's army to know that he's marching to Riverrun, so why has he not mentioned Robb's new wife?
  • Clearly she will free her, but it was out of character to not free her immediately.
  • They looted Xaro's manse in the season two finale, which gave them the opportunity to give Dany enough wealth for Unsullied. There's no explanation for this plot-hole.
  • I know what she said, but it still makes no sense. If the fires will lead her, why not stay on Dragonstone until she knows where she's going?
  • I don't think this was the intention of the scene. It's possible, I agree, but I think there was more to it than that.
  • But wasn't Brienne the only one fighting? She was trying to fight them off, but they were trying to rape her.

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-I think the whole Ramsay/Theon bit will be better once the season is finished and we get a chance to re-watch it. From what it seems like, Ramsay deliberately stages a hunt, fully knowing that his men will catch Theon and try to rape him. The rape bit is important. Ramsay already has his trust, but Theon now looks up to him as his saviour, and might refer to this incident in his future Reek-ified persona as evidence, exhibiting the Stockholm Syndrome that Reek seems to display in ADWD.

-Agree on the Mance part. I really don't have a logical explanation. I guess we'll have to see how it play out.

-IIRC, Jorah said the few luxuries in Xaro's manse worth anything would be enough to buy a small ship. I don't think they had enough to buy the carts of food and silk she has in the book.

-The fires act as her compass or something? I'm guessing they're taking liberties on the power of Mel's magic. IDK.

-I think she was trying to fight them off, but that only caused them to beat her more, causing her to scream.

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We're given the impression that he hasn't left his room since the season two finale. And anyway, Ros was freed in time for the finale, whilst Tyrion was unconscious and hadn't visited Cersei. This means Cersei freed her simply because Joffrey didn't die.

We're also given the impression that Littlefinger isn't thanking him genuinely at all but rather trying to get Tyrion to slip some information that he can use against him. I thought it was pretty obvious.

I agree that Ramsay doesn't care about anyone, but it still feels a little "off" to me. He didn't need to kill four men to win Theon's trust.

That sounds like an awfully weak argument to argue a plot hole. Ramsay doesn't exactly only do what he needs to do in the books.

Why would they be able to recognise her? And why has Robb's marriage not been discussed in King's Landing, anyway? Varys must have spies in Robb's army to know that he's marching to Riverrun, so why has he not mentioned Robb's new wife?

I'd rather ask why it's important that we know? They could easily have seen her at some point and the idea that the show must spell every little thing out to us is not very appealing to me.

Clearly she will free her, but it was out of character to not free her immediately.

Not if she has a plan. And she had hardly had time to step outside of the meeting with Kraznys so I'd rather say that it's extremely impatient to expect her to free the slave within the first minute of owning her.

I know what she said, but it still makes no sense. If the fires will lead her, why not stay on Dragonstone until she knows where she's going?

So now you're making up how her visions work and call it a plot hole because of that? That's even more laughable than your post about how intelligent people seemingly don't need to understand subjectivity and objectivity.

I don't think this was the intention of the scene. It's possible, I agree, but I think there was more to it than that.

The deal with Pod seemed to me that Tyrion had paid the whores before and to include the service of making him think that he didn't need to pay him with the gold Tyrion left while Pod was there. Something to boost Pod's very obvious lack of confidence. That's the simplest and most available explanation, both with what happened and how Tyrion and Bronn reacts. Pod says that he did things with the whores and of course no whore would actually refuse money for her services.

But wasn't Brienne the only one fighting? She was trying to fight them off, but they were trying to rape her.

I don't understand how it would be strange that Brienne can manage to avoid being raped for one minute. They have to carry her off somewhere, make her unable to fight back and then get on with it. Nothing in the scene indicates that they are in a big hurry either. As for them breaking off when Locke tells them to, how about taking the last part of that scene as an indication that Locke isn't a guy that you want to disobey or make angry? Someone that can do something like that can probably be a pretty hard leader.

The part with Jorah wanting to buy Unsullied but they are low on money is the only thing I find hard to grasp and can buy as a legit plot hole. The rest seem either like wanting the show to be extremely obvious with every detail, not having the patience to accept that we don't have all the info on all parts yet, or are just interpretations of things that I don't think are valid/the most logical.

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