[Book Spoilers] EP303 Discussion

[Abaddon]

saw a lot of posts to this point, but I didn't see anyone really hit it on the head...

It's not that Locke is dumb, jealous, or rage full ... It's that Locke doesn't intend to ransom Jamie at all. He tells them that at the end of ep2 when Jamie says he is worth riches. As far as Locke is concerned, he'll bring Jamie back to Roose, Roose will send him to Robb where he will be beheaded for his crimes. A beheading goes just as well whether or not the prisoner has 1 or 2 hands.

On the other...hand (had to) there was no mention of Brienne. She is not a fugitive, only a new prisoner. Thank's to Jamie she now has ransom value, and so is kept unbesmirched (not defiled)

This, I feel, is an improvement to the source material. You sum up the whole motive for the "behanding" by simply saying that a Northman sworn to a bannerman of the King in the North would obviously assume the lord he is loyal to would not want to be on the Lannisters good side. Roose ought to be fine with a 1 handed Jamie if Roose was loyal. Since Roose has some other motives however...

Locke thus introduces a few plot points and will help wrap that whole thing up nicely when the viewers consider it in retrospect

I had some vague ideas long these lines, but you have very cogently summarized them, much clearer than I was thinking. Well done! This makes perfect sense. And agreed, well done show.

[ckal]

Rewrites are done all the time. Even large rewrites of certain characters. Changes are made before casting, during casting, after casting, and even during shooting. Sometimes rewrites are done and then re-shot. Just because they said they completed the script doesnt mean they didnt make changes afterwards to better reflect certain actor's acting style. Hinds and West are completely different. They bring a completely different feel to the character. I highly doubt what we see is word for word what they wanted for West.

Clearly nobody will dispute anything you said about making changes to a television script.

Here's the thing; I just did some searching on the internet and found out I am wrong about the script being written, but probably correct on the portrayal. I will link two articles, both from the past few weeks. The first states there was no script yet for season 3 when they offered Hinds the role of Mance. The second article states "Thrones producers sought a strong, rugged and charismatic actor." So things may have changed over the course of production, but it seems that from the start, they had this portrayal of Mance's character in mind.

http://www.vulture.c...-interview.html

http://insidetv.ew.c...er-lady-olenna/

Edited April 15, 2013 by ckal

[FacelessSnow]

Re: The whores refusing to accept the money - During the scene, I was a bit confused as to why they did this. Towards the end, I thought it was obvious Tyrion arranged it to be able to make Pod think he's a stud. But there is so much confusion about this that I'm beginning to wonder if I'm wrong - Is there more to this scene?

I think people are reading WAY too much into this, the scene was a simple amusing anecdote that provided HBO's necessity for nudity while establishing two important plot points:

1) The Bank at Bravos is owed a LOT of money (without the Pod scene this would have been a little dry)

2) Pod and Tyrion have a strong bond that in coming seasons is importance to explain Pod's "quest"

[Ser Farbod]

The second article states "Thrones producers sought a strong, rugged and charismatic actor." So things may have changed over the course of production, but it seems that from the start, they had this portrayal of Mance's character in mind.

I wouldnt describe Hinds portrayal of Mance as either rugged nor charismatic. More stoic and measured in my opinion. I think they honestly molded Mance to Hinds strengths. There is no way West plays Mance like this. Or else why would you ever cast West? We are talking about Jimmy McNulty here...

[The Fourth Head]

Robb laughing during the funeral was weird and I can't stand Cat. That's my take ;)

aww, don't tell me you have never felt like laughing at the worst possible moment? It isn't deliberate, but funerals can be like torture for young people, especially if you never knew the person, and especially if things go wrong. It's called black humour, not diesrespect, and some of the most delicious humour comes at inappropriate times, and in spite of your acute knowledge that it is wrong. It just cant be helped.

Robb wasn't a "haw haw" laugh, it was a stifled smile that he fought to stop. the North respect strength, and Edmure, the guy who had just messed up his war plans was making a spectacular ass of himself. It also reminded us that Robb may be a great war leader, but he is also a boy.

As for the Cat scene, I understand she divides people in general. I have never been a massive fan of her, but I thought Michelle Fairley's performance this week was heartrending. I have sat on a windowsill waiting for my mother. I totally bought her sobs, and I totally yearned for her, and Bran and Rickon to be reunited at that moment. The RW just makes it worse...

Edited April 15, 2013 by The Fourth Head

[boojam]

1) The Bank at Bravos is owed a LOT of money (without the Pod scene this would have been a little dry)

That was odd, I don't think The Bank of Braavos is mentioned till a couple of books later , is that right?

I sure non-readers thought 'Bank of Braavoss?!".

[FacelessSnow]

On Locke:

Whose to say Locke isn't a sellsword hired by Roose? I think this a oppose to him being some knight or his lieutenant is reasonable. All we know is that he is Roose's "hunter." As a sellsword, it would establish an additional tie to Vargo explained by his poorer upbringing. Also it alleviates him from the responsibility of thinking about the political implications of Jaime. On the other hand, he is directly planning on ransoming Brienne, so the treatment of Jaime isn't hypocritical. Considering the butterfly effect of taking the Bloody Mummers out last season, this seems as true to the books as you can get if you ask me.

[Ser Farbod]

That was odd, I don't think The Bank of Braavos is mentioned till a couple of books later , is that right?

I sure non-readers thought 'Bank of Braavoss?!".

The Bank was discussed when Tyrion was going over how Littlefinger "cooked" the books a bit. It was a lot nuanced than the simple way the show handled it but the Bank of Braavos was definitely mentioned here. It was even discussed how the Bank would proceed if the crown were to default on the loans.

As for non book readers I think the mention is fine. Braavos has been mentioned by Arya's sword master and they get the sense that it is a land across the sea. Thats enough really.

[David Selig]

That was odd, I don't think The Bank of Braavos is mentioned till a couple of books later , is that right?

No, it's mentioned in the first book that a portion of the 6 mln. crown debt is to the iron Bank.

[The Fourth Head]

At first I was really pissed at Stannis's beach scene, but then, after rewatching it, I actually thought it was not out of character for him. Then I found this text on Tumblr and now I actually like the scene:

Or put more simply, ever since they created that shadowbaby together, Melisandre has provided Stannis with the opportunity of fucking his way to power. Lusting after his rightful inheritance, lusting after the respect he so craves, and lusting after Melisandre's cunt are now one and the same.

[FacelessSnow]

That was odd, I don't think The Bank of Braavos is mentioned till a couple of books later , is that right?

I sure non-readers thought 'Bank of Braavoss?!".

Actually Ned is the one that figures out the Bank is owed $$ back in in GoT, much like Volants the show is starting to introduce key aspects of the word early in order to get the viewers accustomed. So when later (aFfC/DwD) the money problems re-surface after LF, Tywin, and Tyrion peace out people can be like oh yea I remember.

[Honey Badger]

Or put more simply, ever since they created that shadowbaby together, Melisandre has provided Stannis with the opportunity of fucking his way to power. Lusting after his rightful inheritance, lusting after the respect he so craves, and lusting after Melisandre's cunt are now one and the same.

Well put. I think Mel has Stannis addicted at this point. He's weaker and needs her, and she likes holding that over him.

[ckal]

I wouldnt describe Hinds portrayal of Mance as either rugged nor charismatic. More stoic and measured in my opinion. I think they honestly molded Mance to Hinds strengths. There is no way West plays Mance like this. Or else why would you ever cast West? We are talking about Jimmy McNulty here...

I would describe Hinds Mance as rugged. Charismatic, well, not so much. I guess it depends on what they meant by charismatic. It's clear DnD dropped the fun side of Mance, but we're not sure when. Hinds is a great actor, it's not unreasonable to believe Hinds could have played bookMance on screen. I just don't think this is the angle DnD wanted to go with the character, which is really unfortunate.

[timstanton]

i watch every week with 3 non book readers. i was waiting the entire episode for sam the slayer, the reveal of ramsay (guess that wont be for A WHILE,) jamies hand and dany to reveal her understand of kraznys(sp.) when do the more seasoned readers expect these things to happen? i cant remember exactly when she revealed she could understand him, but i thought it was during the negotiating, i guess that was all one scene in the book though? anyone?

Edited April 15, 2013 by timstanton

[-Ghost-]

I honestly think it was a casting issue. I think they wanted Dominic West as more of the book version of Mance. When that fell through they didnt want to take a risk with someone who could really destroy those scenes with a bad performance. Book Mance is very nuanced and if played wrong could just come across as an idiot clown. So they took a safer approach and went with a reserved and battle hardened general type with Hinds.

Does it make me sad? Yes, I think that Dominic West would have been a terrific book Mance. However I understand their approach. Jon is the star in that story. With limited screen time (thanks to all the boobs and filler required by HBO) they didnt want to detract from Jon. Makes sense. Hinds does a wonderful job for the job they gave him.

I agree. I would kill to have West as Mance, I was pissed when I heard that he turned it down. I think he would have been amazing and could have NAILED book Mance. I have no problem with Hinds though, he's doing a fine job for what hes been given. The show runners chose to go in a different direction with the character but whatever.

[kephv]

It's a really small thing, but I hate that Jamie hasn't called Brienne "wench" once since they got paired up.

Same! They left out some of their best banter. :(

Also, why the hell haven't they named the dragons yet? Another small thing that irks me.

[timstanton]

Same! They left out some of their best banter. :(

Also, why the hell haven't they named the dragons yet? Another small thing that irks me.

uhhh...they have?

[Honey Badger]

I'm sad to say, my faith in Kit is almost gone, and I feel like just about anyone could steal the scenes from him. He looks the part, but thats all I have to say about anymore, I'm very disappointed in his acting.

I don't blame Kit. Jon Snow as the Marty Stu can be annoying and dull. Even with his strained relationship with Ygritte, this guy keeps finding himself in crazy situations and surprisingly gets out of it alive. He even becomes Lord Commander, yeesh. He couldn't be any younger to be thrust in that position. I bet in the latest book he warged into Ghost and will find a way to resurrect in a new and better body like a damn Autobot. That character always gets away with it. Wouldn't surprise me he comes back as AA with better armor and two swords, and a dragon mount. Lame.

[JMJ]

To whoever it was that commented about Arya's interaction with the Hound - the comment about whether Sandor remembered the last time they were there together - first, as some other have said, it refers to the killing of Mycah in AGOT during the King's and Ned's party's journey back to KL from WF.

Second, this is most definitely a foreshadowing for the Beric-Hound trial by combat. Remember that it's Mycah's death that Arya accuses Sandor of and gets the Hound condemned by the BWB.

[i-sawr-the-ghost-of-harren]

Sorry, but could someone explain why Ramsay's "Winter Is Coming" line was "ridiculously funny"? I didn't get it. :/