[Book Spoilers] EP303 Discussion

[theREALjonsnow]

Whether or not they use the same actress, it seems silly to change the entire plot just because the producers don't want to use an "extra" later on. It seems to me more likely they would re-introduce Jeyne, whether its the same actress or a different one, rather than change the plot line to have something ridiculous like Ros act as a stand-in for Jeyne/(F)Arya.

yep re-introduce Jeyne next season to go with Reek & Ramsay back in winterfell. makes sense to me...

[Joyful Union]

Except, no-one will remember who Jeyne was. In fact,the extra isnt even identified within the series, Sansa just mentions her name in passing. I barely remembered who she was in the books either, she's an incredibly minor character. Don't know why youve put brackets around "extra" Jam Maester, she was played by an extra. Doesn't mean that Ros will replace Jeyne necessarily. They could just as easily create a new character, which would be less confusing than explaining who Jeyne Poole is.

[JaTyAdo]

Not Holding Onto ‘Hold Riverrun’: One of the biggest controversies on these boards is deftly avoided by simply shrinking the impact of “Hold Riverrun” and “Killing the Mountain” (though it again seems more likely than not that Martin’s explanation makes less and less sense under scrutiny, so the show changed it).

But… I am not sure I liked much else, most certainly I did not enjoy Edmure- loved the actor, loved how he spoke to Robb and interfaced with Blackfish, but… why have a character be so incompetent so quickly so much of the time? Now, I a get that that is Edmure in the book so it makes some sense here, but in the book- AT LEAST Cat mentioned how Edmure had a good heart and at least he defeated Tywin! This guy here at RR is a train wreck… and we have only seen him for two scenes.

The Devolution of Stannis: Stannis Baratheon was the guy who stormed the walls of KL; he kills people , he leads men… and … “Whaaa!!!! Why Can’t I have another kid! Why Can’t I BE KING! Please fuck me!!” Now, I get it: he is rudderless and much like the book, Stannis is weakening. But book-Stannis was not a weakling who always wanted the easy way out! In fact, he sometimes made things as hard as they could be! Don’t turn him suddenly into such an untethered, forgettable bad guy! Give the guy some purpose… please! LIstening to Stannis whine on a beach was about as bad as I have seen the show handle one of the most captivating caharcters in the series.

Gosh, these two things are pissing me off.. Stannis is in love with Melisandre and Edmure is a total dumbass.. ruining characters that I love.. Damn! And Robb gave him some advice like 'Yeah, you know, I didn't mess up when I married Talisa!' Really now?! The show is good but the character assasination is totally unacceptable!!

[JMJ]

Except, no-one will remember who Jeyne was. In fact,the extra isnt even identified within the series, Sansa just mentions her name in passing. I barely remembered who she was in the books either, she's an incredibly minor character. Don't know why youve put brackets around "extra" Jam Maester, she was played by an extra. Doesn't mean that Ros will replace Jeyne necessarily. They could just as easily create a new character, which would be less confusing than explaining who Jeyne Poole is.

The "extra" quote was merely because I personally didn't consider her role minor, knowing what role Jeyne would play later on. As far as how truly minor the character is for show-only watchers, I can't really speak to that, other than probably most viewers would probably vaguely remember a girl Sansa liked to hang out with at WF (shown at the feast when the King's party is there).

[Jon Icefyre]

I just don't think Ros will end up being the fake Stark she seems to be too old, and ppl forget she's secretely most likely not even working for Littlefinger anymore and is instead a spy for Varys based on the scene they had at the end of season 2. Varys makes it clear to her that he doesn't force his employees into situations that could bring them serious physical absue the way Littlefinger does. So if she his indeed now secretely working for Varys I can't really see Varys being okay with her marrying Ramsay rape, torture, and flay you alive Bolton.

[King of the Road]

It'll probably end up being a random whore from Kings Landing as the replacement Arya. It would be nice if it was a character if we were already aware of but I don't think it's necessary, so long as she is suitably vulnerable.

[I do not sew]

Cat still has plenty of time to tell everyone what a sweetheart Edmure is and blah blah blah. Furthermore, "being kind of heart" has nothing to do with competency. Edmure was a fuck up in the books, he's a fuck up in the show, they just streamlined it, like they do everything. I don't see what all the huff is about.

[JMJ]

One thing about replacing Jeyne with someone random as the Fake Arya - we don't know how that whole storyline will play out. Do Jeyne's ties to Winterfell play some role during TWOW? In the preview Stannis POV from TWOW, we see that

Mors Umber "confirms" Jeyne as Arya because Jeyne knows some details about Winterfell, and (F)Arya will be sent to the Wall with Nestoris and Justin Massey. Other threads have speculated whether or not she will head with them to Braavos. Using a random person may or may not fit into that storyline.

[Maxthestig]

Here is our review.....

Spolier so don't look at my comment!!!

For people who have read the books. Do you think the Theon saga is dragging?

I just want to see the real Ramsay and people are saying he is cute. I hope they don't think that when he is doing is thang!

I love Jamie and Brienne..... I love every character....... Even Joff !!!!!!!!!

[Zombie]

I mean in the books it was clear it doesn't matter what fake Arya looks like, it just needed to be a northerner that knows about Winterfell since everyone is dead. They can use it as a way of just showing that Bolton and Ramsay know she's fake while sorta making tortured Theon more important again too. (heck they even had that scene with Ros breaking down in front of Littlefinger... like she would do again with Theon) There is also history between Ros and Theon from back in season 1 - I think it would make her wedding to Ramsay that more intriguing and show that Theon is so scared of Ramsay that he's willing to not really help Ros out (immediately).

In the Tyrion chapter I reread it was said that Littlefinger found Arya (and gave to Tywin... though Tywin knows she's a fake) and at the moment in the show Ros is the only one who makes sense there, but I suppose it could be someone new... It just seems highly likely to me that they just might implement that role on her, but I guess we shall see in time. I'm willing to put a golden dragon on it I'm right though. :D

[Ser Jake]

Watching the episode again, just can't get over how awful that scene with Tyrion and Bronn wanting details of Pod's 3-some is. Just seems so out of character and so completely unnecessary.

Rest of the episode was pretty good though.

[JMJ]

The other problem with Ros as FArya is that too many Northern guys would recognize her from ... Ahem ... Their visits with her whilst she was still working in WF.

[Dove]

Haha, true. To be fair I don't know if Operation: Fake Stark was meant to be particularly convincing in the books, either.

I always got the impression that it was fear of reprisal from the Boltons/Freys that kept the northerners in check moreso than "Arya". Obviously if Theon or someone else closely connected with the family had come right out and comfirmed that it wasn't her the jig was up either way, but I'm not sure if the other lords were legitimately decieved by the ruse or not.

Edited April 20, 2013 by chareth cutestory

[boojam]

The other problem with Ros as FArya is that too many Northern guys would recognize her from ... Ahem ... Their visits with her whilst she was still working in WF.

I noticed last episode Ros mentioning she remembered Sansa's birth and how long the WF bells rang. Ros is , of course, a Dave and Dan invention, and I figured a meld on several figures. Especially in KL she seemed on the way to becoming that 'madam' that's at the Shae's 'halfway brothel' arranged by Varys and Tryion (I can not remember her name). Since Esme Bianco had a speaking role I figured they had used an actress who would do nudity*, have to say Bianco is a very good actress, I have come to like her.

I can't see her being the fake Arya, but she could instruct a stand in on all the lore of the north and WF. Maybe Ros is a northerner? (Tywin could tell, by Arya's accent? that she was a northerner.) How many northern girls are in KL? A detail never important to the story. Any escapees from WF? The surrounding towns and villages which we hear only a minute about in the books?

That would mean Ros is around until episode 6, or 7? Lord only knows it still depends on George and novel 6.

Bianco was even brought over by HBO for red carpet treatment.

*We have had Emilia and Sibel Kekilli (sort of Roxanne McKee) do almost full frontal,topless at least, I have to wonder if Emilia will do it again?

I don't know if Natalia Tena has done full frontal before, but she impresses me as a wild spirit, no problem for her!

I was surprised that Dave and Dan , at least I think they did, said , on the DVD commentary for S2, that Sophie Turner (who must be a book reader) was willing to do the KL throne room beating scene, topless, as it was in the book. I think Sophie is still too young to do that,

D and D would be in jail right now! Don't know what the legal age is in UK law to do that.

Edited April 20, 2013 by boojam

[liefde]

I noticed last episode Ros mentioning she remembered Sansa's birth and how long the WF bells rang. Ros is , of course, a Dave and Dan invention, and I figured a meld on several figures. Especially in KL she seemed on the way to becoming that 'madam' that's at the Shae's 'halfway brothel' arranged by Varys and Tryion (I can not remember her name). Since Esme Bianco had a speaking role I figured they had used an actress who would do nudity*, have to say Bianco is a very good actress, I have come to like her.

I can't see her being the fake Arya, but she could instruct a stand in on all the lore of the north and WF. Maybe Ros is a northerner? (Tywin could tell, by Arya's accent? that she was a northerner.) How many northern girls are in KL? A detail never important to the story. Any escapees from WF? The surrounding towns and villages which we hear only a minute about in the books?

That would mean Ros is around until episode 6, or 7? Lord only knows it still depends on George and novel 6.

Bianco was even brought over by HBO for red carpet treatment.

*We have had Emilia and Sibel Kekilli (sort of Roxanne McKee) do almost full frontal,topless at least, I have to wonder if Emilia will do it again?

I don't know if Natalia Tena has done full frontal before, but she impresses me as a wild spirit, no problem for her!

I was surprised that Dave and Dan , at least I think they did, said , on the DVD commentary for S2, that Sophie Turner (who must be a book reader) was willing to do the KL throne room beating scene, topless, as it was in the book. I think Sophie is still too young to do that,

D and D would be in jail right now! Don't know what the legal age is in UK law to do that.

You can appear nude at any age with parental consent. Brooke Shields was 12 when she did nude scenes for 'Pretty Baby' and Keira Knightly was 15 when she went topless for 'The Hole'. Sophie is 17, so if she wanted to appear topless, D & D would certainly not be arrested for allowing it, but I'm glad they've chosen not to.

I wouldn't be surprised if they used Ros for a fake Sansa plot at this stage. I feel like they've been leading up to it a fair bit, with her having red hair and blue eyes, being from Winterfell, and having a history with both Theon and Jon.

[PatrickStormborn]

There can't be a fake Sansa plot because she's 1) accused of killing Joffrey, and 2) married to Tyrion.

[Khal Porno]

There can't be a fake Sansa plot because she's 1) accused of killing Joffrey, and 2) married to Tyrion.

In the books that's true, but we're talking about the show.

[boojam]

You can appear nude at any age with parental consent. Brooke Shields was 12 when she did nude scenes for 'Pretty Baby' and Keira Knightly was 15 when she went topless for 'The Hole'. Sophie is 17, so if she wanted to appear topless, D & D would certainly not be arrested for allowing it, but I'm glad they've chosen not to.

I wouldn't be surprised if they used Ros for a fake Sansa plot at this stage. I feel like they've been leading up to it a fair bit, with her having red hair and blue eyes, being from Winterfell, and having a history with both Theon and Jon.

Well Pretty Baby is an AMERICAN FILM, made in 1978 , when things were loser in the USA , you cannot even get the original version (well maybe there is a pirate copy) on a commercial DVD anymore. As you may or may not remember there was a terrible fuss over Louis Malle being a child pornographer. I saw the original and thought it was a fairly good art film.

You absolutely could not not make it today, I am not sure the MPAA would even give it an X. No major studio would produce it or distribute it , I think Paramount would just as well people forgot their involvement at this time.

Keira Knightly , The Hole, was a UK film, I have never seen it. Says she did appear topless, super briefly.

I don't know maybe there are UK laws for TV that are different than for film.

Dave and Dan made it clear , season 1, that all the child actors had to be aged up to meet UK child labor laws.

(I don't know what happened to the UK law amendment that would have prohibited anyone under the age of 14 from working , at anything , much less movies and TV.)

The working hours part of the law is still in place , but the age restriction must not have passed.

Since Sophie's scene would have been shot in UK territory , NI, I can see where Dave and Dan could have been restricted.

HBO does nudity the MPAA hits with an R and X , still!, even if it's adults and is in context. HBO must have it's limits tho. It is amazing how at this late date , the 21 century, how puritanical the US is. I know adult material proliferates the web, and Premium Channels have a lot of soft core, but foreign art film here sometimes goes around the MPAA and is unrated.

As for Ros, it just seems so unlikely , but lord that sequence is so far off I have wonder if we will ever even get there!

You know a lot of people complain about the T and A , and the sofcore 'bonking' (and I agree on the grounds of it being a time waste, at times), but you know that fake-Arya, Ramsay - Theon, wedding night scene in ADwD is almost Henry Miller type explicitness. I really don't expect even HBO to allow that , if we ever get to scene!Lot of people blame the sex on HBO , but George , maybe he does not have as much useless nudity , but can lay on the adult stuff thick at times. There is some stuff GRRM has written even HBO would not touch.

Edited April 20, 2013 by boojam

[liefde]

I'm pretty sure the rules are still the same in regards to underage nudity in films. The Hole only got a 12A (12 and up) rating in the UK, despite having a topless 15 year old in it.

Sophie is 17 though, and I don't think it's as much of an issue once you're past the age of consent. Quite a few highly regarded films have nude scenes with actresses aged 16/17 (American Beauty and Romeo + Juliet, off the top of my head), so I don't think it's much of an issue in the US either.

I don't know what they plan on doing in regards to scenes with Tyrion and Ramsay, but I think it's safe to say no one's going to jail over it.

[Khal Porno]

If Sansa (the character) is in fact naked in a scene, I think they will shoot it in such a way to imply the nudity without being graphic. I think it would be in somewhat poor taste to show Sophie Turner's breasts, etc. and I bet Benioff and Weiss would agree.

I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts we will not see Sophie Turner naked. Shoulders up/from the back maybe, but not anything explicit.