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[Book Spoilers] EP303 Discussion


Ran
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And does anyone here know anything about CGI? I wonder why it's so expensive, I thought it was just kind of similar to computer animation or something. Because I'm wondering why we only ever see one of Dany's dragons when she has three. We never see.. um... Viseron and Rhaegal? I forget their names because we only ever hear about Drogon.

I don't know much about CGI but I can tell you that in Buffy every time they showed a vamp changing from human-face to vamp-face it cost $5000 & that is a pissy little effect. I'm guessing the dragons cost a fecking fortune.

A lot of folks have raised the "when will Sam off Puddles?" question & some folks seem concerned it may not happen. I am not overly concerned. Someone HAS to stab an Other with a DG dagger, they have to find out what that shit does or else there was literally no point in them even finding it at The Fist. I'm guessing the Slayer scene will become an adapted version of the scene in not-Whitetree when Sam ganks Small Paul.

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Does anyone know if Beric Dondarrion's been cast this season? I know Strong Belwas isn't :( but I'm still holding out hope for him! Who else will beat the champion of Mereen, or whatever they call him?

Beric has been cast, and if you watched any of the pre-season preview trailers he appeared in almost all of them with his fiery sword. I believe I saw him in the preview for next week's episode, so I'd imagine that's when we'll meet him.

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Jon Snow is getting worse and worse. His acting has boiled down to looking constipated.

Agreed. Of all the POV characters in a Song of Ice and Fire, I'd argue the tv writers have probably mishandled Jon Snow more than anyone. Jon is almost never (pro)active in his own story. He is simply is carted from location to location, mocked, laughed at, and asked to watch as his supporting cast gets all the good lines and drives the plot forward or in some cases just keep trudging through the snow. Contrast that with Danny who at least has some agency in her own story.

Partly its a result of botching Jon's initial foray beyond the wall with Halfhand, partly its that they haven't written any compelling material for him since the Season 1 finale, and I just don't think they are that interested in this portion of Jon's character development. Its too subtle. Once he gets some sexy time with Yggritte and has get to betray the Wildlings that might change. That seems to be a storyline Benioff and Weiss will likely embrace.

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Was anyone one else impressed with the direction? I thought it was very strong considering the fact that it was Benioff's first directing job. Definitely better at action scenes then Daniel Minahan.

I've been supra critical of the action sequences in Game of Thrones. Outside of Blackwater, they have often look very staged and amateurish, even the Jamie/Brienne fight last week looked silly to me. That said, the Theon horse chase sequence was exceptionally well put together. Kudos to Benioff, the stunt team, and editing team for that sequence. Very well done!

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Agreed. Of all the POV characters in a Song of Ice and Fire, I'd argue the tv writers have probably mishandled Jon Snow more than anyone. Jon is almost never (pro)active in his own story. He is simply is carted from location to location, mocked, laughed at, and asked to watch as his supporting cast gets all the good lines and drives the plot forward or in some cases just keep trudging through the snow.

He's actually less proactive in the books up to this point in the story. Jon in the show volunteers to follow Qhorin Halfhand, he's told to in the books. He also defies Qhorin's order to kill Ygritte in the show, whereas in the books he just follows Qhorin, and kills Qhorin when he's told to. He also follows Craster into the woods in Season 2, which he never did in the books. You could say they've mishandled the story, but Jon is certainly more proactive in the show.

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Loved the episode. The credits at the end sort of ruined the Jaime scene. I would rather have preferred that they show Jaime getting his hand chopped off like they did then fade to black and then have Jaime scream. Also, I would have used a sadder tone for the bear and the maiden fair at the end credits not that rock version I felt that was a weird and out of place. The rock version would have been a better fit at perhaps the end of episode seven?

i liked the way they used the punk rock version. kind of throws a bit of hysteria into the viewers mind.

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He's actually less proactive in the books up to this point in the story. Jon in the show volunteers to follow Qhorin Halfhand, he's told to in the books. He also defies Qhorin's order to kill Ygritte in the show, whereas in the books he just follows Qhorin, and kills Qhorin when he's told to. He also follows Craster into the woods in Season 2, which he never did in the books. You could say they've mishandled the story, but Jon is certainly more proactive in the show.

Good points. Maybe Kit is the issue, but I think its the lack of scenes where we can get fully invested in Jon's point of view. A scene with Jon's dismay at the Halfhand's sacrifice plan or even a few moments of him taking in (both horrified and pleasantly suprised) about the Wilding culture would really be useful. Right now he is a one note emo cipher. There is more to the character than that --- and I'm not even that big a fan of the character of Jon Snow.

Edited by pleonasm
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Speaking of things that seemed strange in the episode; Burn Gorman as random Night's Watchman? I would have expected a bigger role for him. Even with the expectation that he plays a role in the upcoming demise of the Lord Commander, it still seems like a pretty bit part.

So... that leads me to my latest show spitball: I think Burn Gorman is going to become a main antagonist in the Night's Watch to Jon, probably taking the place of either Janos Slynt and/or Aliser Thorne. I've really been hoping that both of those actors come back for S4 and it's still possible. However, if they can't get one or both back, they're going to need to have someone more obviously antagonistic to Jon than anyone else we've seen yet, so it would make sense to introduce someone at some point this season to take that role.

Or, maybe he dies next episode, and I can forget about my thought :).

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That could be worth remembering when criticizing the show. It's much easier to remember what happens in the books than to adapt the series to TV.

As for not making sense, I can't agree with you. The story makes perfect sense as it was shown. It would have had a bigger impact if it had been shown during the second season, but that's not the same thing as being the only thing that makes sense. I think it would have made less sense for the show to have had such a crucial moment happen back then and no one talks about the failure until now. I also think that Tywin's attack was a big surprise anyway, without the audience knowing exactly what he was doing in the war previously. The whole thing is a good part in the book but the story doesn't stand or fall with the events being exactly the same.

No problem, agree to disagree. Conflicting opinions.

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I'm wondering how the non-book readers are handing the Tully introduction. This is the first we ever heard on the show that Robb is King of the Riverlands as well as the North, and that's a pretty big deal. It makes it kinda weird that we haven't heard of any Riverland soldiers in his army up to this point.

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I'm wondering how the non-book readers are handing the Tully introduction. This is the first we ever heard on the show that Robb is King of the Riverlands as well as the North, and that's a pretty big deal. It makes it kinda weird that we haven't heard of any Riverland soldiers in his army up to this point.

the non-book readers i watch this didnt seem to notice or care that it was a different house. however, they did think that the blackfish was a huge bad a$$ and understood that robb was their king.

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Overall, they've done an absolutely fantastic job adapting the story and streamlining some story lines. My only criticism is that they seem to have dropped the Umber's, which for me, will take away from some of the impact of the Red Wedding. Of all the Stark bannermen, they seemed to be the most loyal.

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Overall, they've done an absolutely fantastic job adapting the story and streamlining some story lines. My only criticism is that they seem to have dropped the Umber's, which for me, will take away from some of the impact of the Red Wedding. Of all the Stark bannermen, they seemed to be the most loyal.

they didn't so much as drop the charector as i believe the actor who played the Greatjon left the show.
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