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[Book Spoilers] EP303 Discussion

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The Jaime scene at the end was great. About Locke's motivation being flimsy- well, Vargo wasn't necessarily the smartest guy either. Vargo thought cutting off Jaime's hand meant to send the message to Tywin that he meant business. Real smart move there.

no they explained vargos motivation, and the spot he was in. having betrayed tywin already and finding himself on a foreign confident without any real allies. he wanted to diminish the value that jamie had for bolton.

it hasnt been established why locke would want to do that. and as lock has been presented, doesnt make too much sense

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People hyperventilating over the Stannis scene need to calm down.

We never saw them alone in the book. He spends all of his time with her after Blackwater, usually alone with her. He's an utterly defeated man at the moment, desperate and depressed, but of course, she is the only one who gets to see him in that state, ever. He still maintains the rigid, stern, clenched-jaw exterior among others, and it feels quite natural to me that he would drop the facade in the moment that she is 'abandoning' him.

Seems to me that some of you guys are the ones who have Stannis figured wrong. He's not bereft of feelings, he's rather the opposite, too sensitive.

Yeah, I see what you mean, but I'm looking at his character from the TV show prospective now. Somehow they got him to be all hero and stuff at the Battle of Blackwater and i really liked the change. And now from all of a sudden he is that whiny dude, who begs Melisandre not to go away and to help him win over the throne by giving him another shadow baby. He was the one that wanted to be fair and square at the first place and win his battles properly as honest man. And for a moment I got confused and thought "Does he want her back only for the shadow baby or does he have feelings for her?" It just seemed a little inconsistent to me. I really try not to compare book and TV show characters but it is just inevitable. I just don't see how this begging guy could become the tough leader who is determined to win the throne. I think they played it a bit too far with the depression...

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You say he was a hero at Blackwater and now all of a sudden he is whiny and weak. What do you mean "all of a sudden"? He lost at Blackwater lol. He was crushed and shamed. He went to KL as a substantial favourite to win, and then he had to retreat from his birthright/glory/justice etc etc etc, and now he sits idle in Dragonstone without the men/gold/anything necessary to try again. Not sure whats so "all of a sudden" here.

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I feel like these past 2 episodes with Cat scenes are definitly foreshadowing Lady Stoneheart making an appearance at the end of the season. Where all her grief she showing this season turning into rage and vengence.

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It's not directly in the books no - I'd imagine GRRM had some input on this because the entire writing staff (including Martin) was very hush about Theon in this season.. I have my theories on why they added it and I'm enjoying it so far.. sadly it's going to be getting much worse for poor Alfie but he seemed really excited to be able to act out these scenes from his interviews.

Oh and as this is the book spoilers thread I guess it's no secret as to "who saved Theon".. I don't want to spoil it for you but it's obviously someone you do not want to call "bastard" lest you want an arrow down your freakin gullet :P

HAHA I just never pictured Ramsey looking like that, but an awesome twist I agree. It shows how much of a sociopath he truly is.

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I don't get why a lot of people were freaking out over the Stannis scene either. I thought it showed him at rock bottom, and in the 3rd book Stannis disappears through the middle and ends up North of the Wall at the end, which was totally from left field but still awesome.

The TV series just bluntly shows that he is a little P Whipped from Melisandre, which makes sense because shes by his side 24/7 telling him how great he is going to be and then leaves him at rock bottom. It also makes sens because we know their relationship is also a physical one...a man has needs and would not like his women going off to god knows where. I think her leaving is a must so Stannis stops sulking gets off his @#$ and starts planning his invasion.

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A few laughs: Tyrion with the chair, Hot Pie and Gendy (I ship it)

Winterhell.

'It's a wolf.' ... 'Yes it is'

'Don't get stabbed' 'Don't burn your fingers'

so cute, I'm sad to see Hot Pie go, I hope they have people stop at that place just so Hot Pie can make cameos. Brienne maybe, that just add another person to her looking for Sansa Stark and running into all the people that Arya Stark came across.

Bad Stuff!

Brienne and Jaime had no respect for the others fighting, which is a massive shame, I loved the mutual respect they had in the books.

Then Robb and the Blackfish believe Bran and Rickon are alive... No! Just No.

Stannis and Mel scene, was just odd, sets up the Gendry thing though. But the worst thing was Stannis wants the baby! He has no remorse about his brother. Big change from the books, don't like one bit.

He showed remorse about it last season when he's about to kill Mel, "I killed my brother?".....

Dany didn't share her plan with Barristan and Jorah. Not sure about that. Then her being 'commanding' just seems very wooden. Still not convinced by EC.

She does the same thing in the books. She needs them to react the way they do or something might not have smelled right.

After Dany has acquired Missandei as Her Girl Friday.

Right out of the Book:

Missandei:"Valar Morghulis"

Dany:"All Men Must Serve"

not in the book

Dany looks at Missandei.

Dany:"We are not men."

Missandei, mild smile.

D and D , that was a good one!

Valar Morghulis, means All Men Must Die, Valar Dohaeris means "all men must serve"

i watch every week with 3 non book readers. i was waiting the entire episode for sam the slayer, the reveal of ramsay (guess that wont be for A WHILE,) jamies hand and dany to reveal her understand of kraznys(sp.) when do the more seasoned readers expect these things to happen? i cant remember exactly when she revealed she could understand him, but i thought it was during the negotiating, i guess that was all one scene in the book though? anyone?

The reader knows from the get go that she understands him because we're inside Dany's head. In the book she reveals it to one of the slavers( the rest are too distracted because they have a freaking DRAGON!) As soon as the transaction is complete, she starts screaming "it is done, you are mine, bought and paid for, it is done" in Valaryian.

i feel like it did. it showed her watching him after she came back and sat down, i think she understood that he talked them out of it, she must have understood that SOMETHING happened in order to go from full rape to chillin by a tree.

Yeap, it becomes pretty obvious because she's silent. She can't really talk to Jaime about why he lied for her, but when she gets a chance I'm sure she'll ask.

Just watched it again, and I couldn't help but chuckle at the Jon+ wildlings scene. I kept picturing the White Walkers all placing random horse parts in a pattern, then giggling as they tip toed away. Why the pattern?

Why do they let Will go so he can tell people that they have returned? Why did they let Sam go? They aren't just mindless zombies. They want people to know that they're out there.

Does anyone know if Beric Dondarrion's been cast this season? I know Strong Belwas isn't :( but I'm still holding out hope for him! Who else will beat the champion of Mereen, or whatever they call him?

So when do we think Lady Stoneheart will appear? Since Book 3 will run into next season. do you guys think she will appear then, or this season? I'd love for them to have her appear at the very end of Episode 10 this season. Like, even AFTER the credits. It would be amazing!

Beric is going to be in the next episode. My guess is if they do a champion single combat scene for Mareen it will be Barristan so we can finally see why he's the greatest knight ever. Jorah and Daario are also possibilities, it will probably not happen this season though, sadly.

And does anyone here know anything about CGI? I wonder why it's so expensive, I thought it was just kind of similar to computer animation or something. Because I'm wondering why we only ever see one of Dany's dragons when she has three. We never see.. um... Viseron and Rhaegal? I forget their names because we only ever hear about Drogon.

Also, I have no idea what Robb and the Tullys were talking about, I must have breezed over that part in the books.

I didn't have a problem with the rock Bear and Maiden Fair. I thought it was a cool version. It was just a little odd following Jaime's behanding!

It's different in the books, but basically after Robb lifts Jaime Lannister's seige at Riverrun, he tells his uncle Edmure to hold it. Edmure does hold it, but he also attacks the Mountain.

I'm wondering how the non-book readers are handing the Tully introduction. This is the first we ever heard on the show that Robb is King of the Riverlands as well as the North, and that's a pretty big deal. It makes it kinda weird that we haven't heard of any Riverland soldiers in his army up to this point.

Robb lifted Jaime Lannister's seige at Riverrun season one and captured him, lifting the siege brought all the Lords of the Riverlands into the war against the Lannnisters.

Very shortly later, Ned is beheaded and the Lords are discussing Stannis/Joffrey/Renly etc. that's when Robb is given his crown and declared King in the North.

(however since they helped the Riverlands allied with Freys through promises of marriage and Riverrun, the Riverlands are part of their kingdom)

King in the North and Riverlands just doesn't sound as cool

Edited by WiDMNDBAMMD

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I wholeheartedly agree with those who loved the Hot Pie farewell scene! It was adorable; Maisie is a very good young actress. And Gendry giving Hot Pie a manly slap on the shoulder... :P

I also am sort of befuddled by the extremely off-kilter portrayal of Stannis being all sexified towards Mel. I suppose it could have been that way in the books and we just weren't privy to their dynamic, but it just doesn't jive with my interpretation of the character. Doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it a little weird for me to watch him grabbing her face and hissing, "I want you." :blink:

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I had no problem w/the moving the chair scene because it was showing you something about the duel for power, how Tywin Lannister holds all the power now and eveyrone else is a toady and how Cersei and Tyrion are in competition and it did also advance the plot because Tyrion got named Master of Coin.

Count me in as someone who thought the "moving-the-chairs" scene was abso-freaking-brilliant! I noticed that almost all the best scenes in the episode (aforementioned chairs, opening scene with Edmure/Blackfish, Night's Watch and Craster's and Theon's chase through the forest) had almost no dialogue.

It's also true that dialogue also vastly improved other scenes (Gendry's"Try not to burn your fingers"; Tyrion's "Details. Copious details." and Cat's scene at the window).

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Count me in as someone who thought the "moving-the-chairs" scene was abso-freaking-brilliant! I noticed that almost all the best scenes in the episode (aforementioned chairs, opening scene with Edmure/Blackfish, Night's Watch and Craster's and Theon's chase through the forest) had almost no dialogue.

It's also true that dialogue also vastly improved other scenes (Gendry's"Try not to burn your fingers"; Tyrion's "Details. Copious details." and Cat's scene at the window).

I loved the chair scene. I think it was Tyrion trying to show that his "position" at the table hadn't changed at all, and that sitting at the foot, he could look his father in the eye.

I dunno, others may feel differently.

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From a purist standpoint I wasn't happy as usual. I continue to wish Theon would just disappear for 2 seasons. The Podrick scenes were IMO a waste of time. Too much sex talk. And I can't picture Stannis behaving the way he did with anyone.

Positives: The last scene was great. Even though I think they should stick to the books whenever they can, I feel they did indeed improve on the source material in that last scene.

How can you be a purist and not like the sex talk, the book is full of it, GRM sometimes writes soft porn

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I loved the chair scene. I think it was Tyrion trying to show that his "position" at the table hadn't changed at all, and that sitting at the foot, he could look his father in the eye.

I dunno, others may feel differently.

I thought it was well done. Everyone showed their place at the pecking order. Spider goes to sit but Littlefinger zooms in to try to sit closer. Old man is out of it as usual, looking not to stand out. Cersei clearly establishes herself as Queen Regent. Tyrion shows he doesn't need to rush, but rudely rubs the chair against the floor to place himself across from Tywin, attempting to show equal footing. Him being burdened with Master of Coin is unfair, but it shows how Tywin places large stones for his son to carry. That goes for the rest of his family.

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Dany's line with Barristan was stupid. She said something like do not question me in front of the strangers. That was stupid. Barristan was kingsguard of the 3 kings. He was in the all important meetings. He must have known courtesy better than anyone.

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Valar Morghulis, means All Men Must Die, Valar Dohaeris means "all men must serve"

That right in show Missandei say's Valar Morghulis, in the book Dany either speaking High Valyrian or translating to common tongue "all men must serve". That the way it is in the show, direct from the book , except for the HV part. But then Dany says "We are not men."

I need to make the note that I did not make a mistake, except for Dany's last remark, that is exactly the dialog from the book.

Edited by boojam

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Dany's line with Barristan was stupid. She said something like do not question me in front of the strangers. That was stupid. Barristan was kingsguard of the 3 kings. He was in the all important meetings. He must have known courtesy better than anyone.

Being in the KIngsguard does not give you the right to question the king in public or interrupt any meetings. KG were supposed to guard the king: if they attended meetings, they were not expected to speak unless spoken to. The fact that the knights in the KG did not challenge the mad king Aerys about some of his more terrible actions (e.g.raping his wife, his torture of Brandon and Rickard) was what so disturbed the young Jaime as a new KG member.

Ser Barristan as the Lord Commander would have known that as well as anyone, and Dany was 100% right to reprimand him for disagreeing with her in public as he did.

Edited by Currawong

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Being in the KIngsguard does not give you the right to question the king in public or interrupt any meetings. KG were supposed to guard the king: if they attended meetings, they were not expected to speak unless spoken to. The fact that the knights in the KG did not challenge the mad king Aerys about some of his more terrible actions (e.g.raping his wife, his torture of Brandon and Rickard) was what so disturbed the young Jaime as a new KG member.

Ser Barristan as the Lord Commander would have known that as well as anyone, and Dany was 100% right to reprimand him for disagreeing with her in public as he did.

We are telling the same thing. Sorry my English is poor so i can't explain myself. I'm saying that Barristan should have never question Dany in front of the strangers. This is out of character. He has been in hunderds of meetings and he must have learned not to question your king/queen in front of the strangers.

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Ah, OK - you said that Dany's line with Barristan was stupid, so I misunderstood and thought you were saying that Dany should not have got cross with him.

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I haven't read the whole thread and seen if this question has been discussed, but what was going on with the Pod scene?

We never see on camera what exactly went down, but I think it's related to the plot to get Sansa to the Vale. Maybe we wont see Sansa and her "florian", but instead the payment was given back in some plot to save Sansa from the Lannisters.

Maidenpool has been cut... Jaime and Brienne fought on a bridge with no fountain.

Wouldn't Tyrion's betrothal to Sansa have been revealed in the "chair scene" if it were ever to be revealed? Maybe they are cutting Tyrion/Sansa wedding... it will only be a betrothal, with Tyrion sending Sansa away willingly? Even in the books he felt bad being forced on her and couldn't bring himself to consumate the marriage...

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well i know i'm right about tywin,joeffry,robb being dead. intro beric kill beric you get uncat so that is in the bag so to speak. arya in braavos for season 4 so hound left for dead after RW is happening.

LC mormont shae ros ygritte are all gone by end of season. sorry peeps we are gonna have a HIGH death toll

reminder show & books are seperate entities

List of plotlines for season 4 gets us completely caught up to book 5: Tyrion & Jorah, Arya with FM training in braavos, Dany in Meereen, Sansa & LF in the Vale with lil boy mcshakey,Jon as LC with stannis mance & melisandre,intro of greyjoys & martells & aegon, brienne on quest with pod, jamie vs stoneheart, cersei vs marge with others as well but you get the picture. season 4 will put us even with the story as it CURRENTLY stands

Game of Thrones,Clash of Kings, Storm of Swords, Feast for Crows, Dance of Dragons, Winds of Winter, Dreams of Spring that is seven books. hbo will fit entire series into 6 if we are lucky 7 seasons. while we are only three seasons in the show has gotta keep pace. the way most of you describe how you would like or think events will take place would put the show at 10 11 seasons which would be completely unfeasible

i posted this in the wrong spot ignore if u want

Edited by theREALjonsnow

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