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Mirri Maz Duur`s words and possible solution to Dany`s fertility problems


Mladen

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We all know the words.

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.

This, as we know, was an answer to Dany`s question about Drogo and when he will be as he was. But, now I have come to one idea and I would like to hear your opinion.

What if this answer wasn`t just reffering to Drogo`s health, than also on Daenerys`s? Could these words mean that Dany will also never have children? We are led to believe so. So, can we use this in regard of Daenerys`s possibilities of having baby. Maybe, we have more evidence to believe so.

1. Mirri believes Dany will never have a child again. That said, this entire line can be interpreted as `you will never have a child as he will never be the same`

2. Life can pay for death. The principle that has claimed Rhaego`s life, could also be manifested vice versa. In theory, Dany by returning the life she stole (Drogo`s) can return in some form the life that was to come to her (Rhaego`s). This would break the magic of Mirri Maz Duur, but wouldn`t break the balance between 3 lives for dragons. That also leaves us with one death to pay for future life. And here we come to my key clue

3. The first line. When the sun rises in west and sets in the east. Quentyn Martell, Prince of Dorne, called as sun`s son by Quaithe, was born in Westeros (has risen in west) but he died in Meeren (has set in the east). He was also killed by dragons, which as we know are part of Dany, for she has brought them to life. So Quentyn`s life, in this way can be seen as price for healing of Dany`s womb and possibility that one day she could bear child again.

There is of course probable chance that some may have come up with this. If so, then I truly appologizes. But, I would truly like to know whether there is a slight chance for Dany to have children and therefore possibly be crowned as someone`s Queen and Mother.

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I've always thought these words are also misinterpreted by many (including Dany in the story).

First of all, it refers to her Sun-And-Stars returning to her - Drogo. Does it state she shall never know love again, or have another mate? No. It could be taken as a long-winded way of stating "never", or that she will not see Drogo again until the afterlife.

Second of all, it only prophesies her bearing a living child as a precondition. It does not state that she is actually barren / incapable of getting pregnant, only that fate will intercede and none of her children will be born alive.

Case in point: I still think that after flying off from Meereen, she had a miscarriage out of the grass, after eating the poisonous berries.

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The seas go dry: might be referring to a Greyjoy? Perhaps Vic, who's closest to her? Perhaps Crow's Eye who's clearly the most dominant of the Greyjoys? Perhaps Damphair, who resembles the sea much more than all other Greyjoys?

Is there anyone else that can be related to the sea that I'm forgetting? Maybe Davos?

Mountains blow in the wind: Gregor Clegane's death?

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ok, so that's not completely crazy. ^_^ it's certainly interesting.

here's why i doubt it's the case:

  • i feel like if that was a condition, it would have been more apparent the moment it happened, rather than something to be puzzled out after the fact.
  • it's an odd thing to tie together as is. the death of a completely unrelated man to the fertility of a woman who was not even present at the scene of the death. bit of a stretch.
  • i don't think that mirri maz duur has the gift of prophecy. i do think there is a significance to the phrasing that has yet to be unraveled, however.
  • east and west are relative terms. assuming the world is round (i'm not sure if it's ever implied. i'm pretty sure no one has sailed east from essos to westeros, though.) what is west and what is east lose a lot of their meaning.

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I've always thought these words are also misinterpreted by many (including Dany in the story).

First of all, it refers to her Sun-And-Stars returning to her - Drogo. Does it state she shall never know love again, or have another mate? No. It could be taken as a long-winded way of stating "never", or that she will not see Drogo again until the afterlife.

Second of all, it only prophesies her bearing a living child as a precondition. It does not state that she is actually barren / incapable of getting pregnant, only that fate will intercede and none of her children will be born alive.

Case in point: I still think that after flying off from Meereen, she had a miscarriage out of the grass, after eating the poisonous berries.

i think you might be on to something. i'm rereading the series and i'll be sure to pay attention to that part.

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The seas go dry: might be referring to a Greyjoy? Perhaps Vic, who's closest to her? Perhaps Crow's Eye who's clearly the most dominant of the Greyjoys? Perhaps Damphair, who resembles the sea much more than all other Greyjoys?

Is there anyone else that can be related to the sea that I'm forgetting? Maybe Davos?

Mountains blow in the wind: Gregor Clegane's death?

while i'm hesitant to associate people with the animals/elemental natures of their respective houses ("You Westerosi are all the same. You sew some beast upon a scrap of silk, and suddenly you are all lions or dragons or eagles." -Illyrio), jojen did have that green dream where the sea came to winterfell and then the ironborn show up. idk, i think you're grasping at straws here, though.

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I don't believe it was a prophesy, nor a curse. It was a grapic answer to "is Drogo ever going to come back?".

MMD believed that Daenerys' health was damaged enough to make her unable to have a living child again. She could be wrong, or not, but it doesn't matter.

Drogo is dead and burned and he is never going to come back, even if the mountains fly like leafs.

(I don't believe that Drogon is Drogo come again. He can't be a lover, a husband, or anything a human can be).

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The seas go dry: might be referring to a Greyjoy? Perhaps Vic, who's closest to her? Perhaps Crow's Eye who's clearly the most dominant of the Greyjoys? Perhaps Damphair, who resembles the sea much more than all other Greyjoys?

Is there anyone else that can be related to the sea that I'm forgetting? Maybe Davos?

Mountains blow in the wind: Gregor Clegane's death?

The seas go dry, you are totally right about refference of Greyjoy. I would incline it to Theon, and the sea that covered Winterfell had dried. Also, Gregor`s death is good refference.

ok, so that's not completely crazy. ^_^ it's certainly interesting.

here's why i doubt it's the case:

  • i feel like if that was a condition, it would have been more apparent the moment it happened, rather than something to be puzzled out after the fact.
  • it's an odd thing to tie together as is. the death of a completely unrelated man to the fertility of a woman who was not even present at the scene of the death. bit of a stretch.
  • i don't think that mirri maz duur has the gift of prophecy. i do think there is a significance to the phrasing that has yet to be unraveled, however.
  • east and west are relative terms. assuming the world is round (i'm not sure if it's ever implied. i'm pretty sure no one has sailed east from essos to westeros, though.) what is west and what is east lose a lot of their meaning.

I am so glad people don`t think I am crazy :)

It could actually work. Quentyn has a bit of Targaryen blood, was killed by the dragon, the one of three that was brought to life by Rhaego`s death. Mirri may not have given prophecy, but could it be read as one. And for us they are relative term. We all call Japan, as the land of rising Sun, but even for Japan there is something on the east. So, even though World of Ice and Fire is round like ours. Westeros is named after west, and Essos after east. There was my logic when I spoke of Quentyn.

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There are so many goddamn prophecies in this series, I always took MMD's words as being an esoteric way of mocking Dany, pushing her when she's already down and not a legit prophetic speech. But there's so many possibilities that fit her words now it seems almost impossible to deny that it could lead somewhere.

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I don't believe it was a prophesy, nor a curse. It was a grapic answer to "is Drogo ever going to come back?".

MMD believed that Daenerys' health was damaged enough to make her unable to have a living child again. She could be wrong, or not, but it doesn't matter.

Drogo is dead and burned and he is never going to come back, even if the mountains fly like leafs.

(I don't believe that Drogon is Drogo come again. He can't be a lover, a husband, or anything a human can be).

Shadowcat, I know that Drogo isn`t coming back. I was talking about possibility Dany has a child, not ressurecting Drogo. And although it isn`t prophecy, can we taken it lightly? No, because MMD could just have said `never`. And yet she said something relatively misterious. And we have lines that were said, and not been the prophecy and yet were prophectical.

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while i'm hesitant to associate people with the animals/elemental natures of their respective houses ("You Westerosi are all the same. You sew some beast upon a scrap of silk, and suddenly you are all lions or dragons or eagles." -Illyrio), jojen did have that green dream where the sea came to winterfell and then the ironborn show up. idk, i think you're grasping at straws here, though.

It's called "symbolism".

If Mirri's words do have some subliminal meaning, it's probably this IMO.

The seas go dry, you are totally right about refference of Greyjoy. I would incline it to Theon, and the sea that covered Winterfell had dried. Also, Gregor`s death is good refference.

I don't think it's Theon because he has nothing to do with Dany, unlike Vic or Crow's Eye (so far Damphair doesn't have anything to do with her either, but as I said he's the easiest character in ASOIAF that can be related to the sea).

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Shadowcat, I know that Drogo isn`t coming back. I was talking about possibility Dany has a child, not ressurecting Drogo. And although it isn`t prophecy, can we taken it lightly? No, because MMD could just have said `never`. And yet she said something relatively misterious. And we have lines that were said, and not been the prophecy and yet were prophectical.

I understand, and I agree that some of the things she said could come to be of importance, but I don't think that any of these are prerequisites for Daenerys to have a child. I believe it's irrelevent - or relevent only in what Daenerys believe about her ability to have children. She got pregnant almost as soon as she had sex, after all.

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I don't think it's Theon because he has nothing to do with Dany, unlike Vic or Crow's Eye (so far Damphair doesn't have anything to do with her either, but as I said he's the easiest character in ASOIAF that can be related to the sea).

If Theon`s death could ressurect Jon as some believe it will, then it has a lot to do with Dany. But, you do have a point concerning Vic and Crow`s Eye.

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I understand, and I agree that some of the things she said could come to be of importance, but I don't think that any of these are prerequisites for Daenerys to have a child. I believe it's irrelevent - or relevent only in what Daenerys believe about her ability to have children. She got pregnant almost as soon as she had sex, after all.

True, as soon as she had sex, normally :). But it also fits nicely with Quentyn`s death, or arrive of Ironborn even... I don`t usually believe in prophecies, and I don`t see this as prophecy, than rather one of those foreshadowing lines.

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It's called "symbolism".

If Mirri's words do have some subliminal meaning, it's probably this IMO.

i'm aware of what symbolism is, thanks. ^_^

i'm simply in the "it's not a prophecy, mirri was being dramatic" camp.

in a world of magic there are always going to be loopholes, though. so who really knows? dany might be healed and it will have nothing to do with mirri maz duur's words.

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"The sea go dry..." - maybe it the Dathraki sea?

"Mountains blow in the wind..." - I don't know? Pyramids?

Wait wait wait...

The seas go dry might be either something to do with the Greyjoys or indeed the Dothraki sea, but

Mountains that blow in the wind? Since it's generally assumed that the Mountain is Ser Robert Strong....perhaps this has bearing on when Robert Strong is defeated and his body set alight, reducing him to ashes, thus...blow in the wind?

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This is how I read it.

I thought it was just accepted by everyone that Dany was barren from that line?

I really like the idea of metaphors though, the Quentyn one was genius. :bowdown:

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i'm simply in the "it's not a prophecy, mirri was being dramatic" camp.

And then please tell me where I have stated it is prophecy. I said it may be interpreted as one, I incline to believe its more foreshadowing than some prophecy.

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