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[Book Spoilers] Littlefinger, Shae and Dontos


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In this episode, there was an interesting bit of dialogue between Littlefinger and Tyrion. Littlefinger innocently (or not so innocently) wondered how Cersei had gotten the idea that Tyrion had a secret, special relationship with a prostitute. He also confirmed that he knew that Tyrion didn't have this type of relationship with Ros. So now there's been a seed planted that Littlefinger suspects that Tyrion has a secret prostitute lover. What could be the writers' reason for this, assuming it's of some importance?

1. Show Littlefinger's not as dumb as he looks?

2. Introduce another potential threat to Shae and Tyrion's relationship, in addition to the threats posed by Cersei and Tywin?

3. (Related to #2) Provide a reason for the introduction of Varys providing secret tunnels for Tyrion and Shae to meet safely as in ACOK? (There was that shot from 3x04 of Tyrion and Varys peering down into something; that could be a secret entrance.)

Going off-book here, but does this mean Littlefinger will find out the truth about Shae? If so, what will he do with that information? Will he reveal it to someone else? There's been a suggestion in Season 3 that Shae could pose an inconvenient obstacle to Littlefinger's plans for Sansa, since she's very protective of Sansa and wants Littlefinger to stay away from her. Could Littlefinger out Shae's status to Sansa as a way of driving a wedge between Shae and Sansa?

The other thing that I noticed from an article that was just published at the Hollywood Reporter in advance of 3x04 was this quote:

But purists rest easy. Weiss and Benioff are quick to note that the series has not seen the last of Sir Dontos either.

This makes no sense to me, as it seemed, in between Littlefinger (approaching Sansa directly) and Shae (playing the role of Sansa's trusted confidant), Dontos had pretty much been written out. I also thought we had confirmation that the actor wouldn't be back for Season 3. So I have no idea what to make of this in relation to the escape plot. Does Dontos show up again in KL doing something other than playing a role in Sansa's escape? It's all very confusing to me. Does anyone have any ideas?

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Does Dontos show up again in KL doing something other than playing a role in Sansa's escape? It's all very confusing to me. Does anyone have any ideas?

It could be as simple as that. Little finger won't be able to show his face in KL once he's supposed to have gone to the Eyrie. So he'll need someone in KL, Dontos (if not appearing in SE3) could simply reveal himself to Sansa just prior to the PW and take her to Little finger in the wake of it.

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It doesn't make much sense to me to introduce Dontos at the start of season 2, cut him for the rest of the season and then reintroduce him again this season or next. What's the point in cutting his original story line then?

I'm so confused... I feel like I'm in cutception.

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I think they're simply going to reinsert Dontos's storyline into the plot, where he'll now be acting as the one meeting with Sansa while LF is off in the Vale. I don't imagine it should be too confusing for viewers, since everyone knows now that LF is the one who's planning on getting her out of the city, and Dontos will be presented as another one of his various low-level employees handling the details.

It does seem like LF is being set up to discover the truth about Shae, but I don't think he'll use the information to come between Shae and Sansa. For one, LF has no reason to perceive Shae as a threat, and with the portrayal of jealous!Shae in E2, it looks like the wedding between Sansa and Tyrion might be enough to cause problems amongst all of them. Littlefinger could reveal the truth to Tywin, who then follows through on his threat to Tyrion, thereby removing the Tyrion murders Shae plot, which may not be a realistic possibility anymore given how they've portrayed that relationship as akin to a love match at this point.

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I think they're simply going to reinsert Dontos's storyline into the plot, where he'll now be acting as the one meeting with Sansa while LF is off in the Vale. I don't imagine it should be too confusing for viewers, since everyone knows now that LF is the one who's planning on getting her out of the city, and Dontos will be presented as another one of his various low-level employees handling the details.

It does seem like LF is being set up to discover the truth about Shae, but I don't think he'll use the information to come between Shae and Sansa. For one, LF has no reason to perceive Shae as a threat, and with the portrayal of jealous!Shae in E2, it looks like the wedding between Sansa and Tyrion might be enough to cause problems amongst all of them. Littlefinger could reveal the truth to Tywin, who then follows through on his threat to Tyrion, thereby removing the Tyrion murders Shae plot, which may not be a realistic possibility anymore given how they've portrayed that relationship as akin to a love match at this point.

It makes more sense than having Ros be the Dontos as she's reporting to Varys and Varys would surely spoil that plan or at least be made aware of it.

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It makes more sense than having Ros be the Dontos as she's reporting to Varys and Varys would surely spoil that plan or at least be made aware of it.

Yes, that's a good point.

Perfect time to reintroduce Ser Dontos is at the Sansa/Tyrion wedding. The could cast him as the fool, then at some point he is able to get her alone or a message to her that he is there to help her.

That could work. This is one of Sansa's lowest points in the books, so some good news (the escape plan is still in the works) by an agent of LF's would help to steel her resolve to endure the marriage for the time being.

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It makes more sense than having Ros be the Dontos as she's reporting to Varys and Varys would surely spoil that plan or at least be made aware of it.

Actually.... this is a major complication...

Why would Baelish trust some random drunken idiot with the whole Sansa deal over someone he thinks he has in his pocket? It could only be out of some desperation:

1) He discovers Ros is a Varys double agent and kills her

2) Tywin gets the info from Cersei that Ros is Tyrions whore so he kills her

3) D&D realise how f***ing stupid the Ros character is so they kill her off by having an errant chamber pot fall on her head as she was walking down a lane.

Its the only way I can see to get them out of the mess they have created with Ros.

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Actually.... this is a major complication...

Why would Baelish trust some random drunken idiot with the whole Sansa deal over someone he thinks he has in his pocket? It could only be out of some desperation:

1) He discovers Ros is a Varys double agent and kills her

2) Tywin gets the info from Cersei that Ros is Tyrions whore so he kills her

3) D&D realise how f***ing stupid the Ros character is so they kill her off by having an errant chamber pot fall on her head as she was walking down a lane.

Its the only way I can see to get them out of the mess they have created with Ros.

But littlefinger did trust some drunken fool with sansa in the book. What mess they created with ros? You dont even know how ill play out how do you know they put themseleves in a mess? Are you a writer for the show?

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I think they're simply going to reinsert Dontos's storyline into the plot, where he'll now be acting as the one meeting with Sansa while LF is off in the Vale. I don't imagine it should be too confusing for viewers, since everyone knows now that LF is the one who's planning on getting her out of the city, and Dontos will be presented as another one of his various low-level employees handling the details.

It does seem like LF is being set up to discover the truth about Shae, but I don't think he'll use the information to come between Shae and Sansa. For one, LF has no reason to perceive Shae as a threat, and with the portrayal of jealous!Shae in E2, it looks like the wedding between Sansa and Tyrion might be enough to cause problems amongst all of them. Littlefinger could reveal the truth to Tywin, who then follows through on his threat to Tyrion, thereby removing the Tyrion murders Shae plot, which may not be a realistic possibility anymore given how they've portrayed that relationship as akin to a love match at this point.

Aha! This makes perfect sense, and I also @ brashcandy, #8 above, have been wondering what they will do with this whole making Shae out to be a 'good' character. If so, then she probably won't be presented as testifying against Tyrion at his trial, a pity since I saw that as a major, major example of how much Tyrion's family has screwed him over.

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But littlefinger did trust some drunken fool with sansa in the book. What mess they created with ros? You dont even know how ill play out how do you know they put themseleves in a mess? Are you a writer for the show?

My tongue was firmly in my cheek there. I thought it might have shown with the chamber pot, but I guess I missed the mark.

But there is a big issue with Ros having any involvement with the Sansa escape given Ros's relations with Varys.

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Aha! This makes perfect sense, and I also @ brashcandy, #8 above, have been wondering what they will do with this whole making Shae out to be a 'good' character. If so, then she probably won't be presented as testifying against Tyrion at his trial, a pity since I saw that as a major, major example of how much Tyrion's family has screwed him over.

Indeed. But yes, at this stage I'm really struggling with how they're going to turn it all around and have Shae willing to collude with the Lannisters, not only against Tyrion but Sansa as well, since she too was implicated by Shae's testimony in the books. I can see a rift developing between Tyrion and Shae due to the marriage; she may accuse him of not doing enough to go against his father, but that would still put Shae more in the realm of disillusionment and hurt, not bitterness and outright anger. If the showrunners had followed the book then of course Shae's reasoning is understandable: she's a prostitute who never had any genuine loyalty to Tyrion and must ensure her own safety. But now that they've created a virtually new character, I don't know what her motivations would be leading up such a testimony, nevermind Tyrion's decision to strangle her.

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Would any non reader actually remember Dontos at this point? I don't think they would.

I'd argue that it doesn't really matter. I don't think many non-readers might have remembered Barristan, but a quick flashback intro of Sansa saving him in Season 2 and problem solved.

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Littlefinger could reveal the truth to Tywin, who then follows through on his threat to Tyrion, thereby removing the Tyrion murders Shae plot, which may not be a realistic possibility anymore given how they've portrayed that relationship as akin to a love match at this point.

I think this is very possible (although not really sure how LF will reveal this to Tywin; I just can't quite picture that) I just think it makes sense to have Tywin kill her and give Tyrion more reason to kill him in the end, thus remaining everybody's darling and not too much the evil kinslayer. (Not sure at this point, but maybe Shae is becoming that part because the show hasn't given much info on Tyrion's first marriage and showing the evil of Tywin in that regard. I might be wrong though)

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