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Xcorpyo001

[Book Spoilers] Was that Domeric?

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Yes, I think infiltrating an Ironborn occupied castle with minimal losses is worth killing 5 Bolton soldiers. But Ramsey has to make sure Asha is not there, because she can blow the "your sister sent me" comment down pretty fast.

The infiltration part comes very late in the books(somewhere in the next season). Maybe he'll use Theon to infiltrate more than one castle under ironborn occupation, with torture sessions in between the conquests.

I don't buy this. Theon will be "Reek" before the infiltration happens. The killing of the 5 soldiers (who are not Domeric or otherwise important) was just Ramsay being an asshole and playing his midfuck with Theon. The real torturing has yet to begin.

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With all the crap Ramsey does, is it really that hard to believe he'd play a handful of soldiers from the Dreadfort? I really doubt that guy was an important "torturer", I'm pretty sure anyone could turn a crank and stick a pin into someones hand and Ramsey really wouldn't be too concerned over replacing them at will.

Well they are at war with most of the Bolton forces south with Robb. There aren't exactly a surplus of extra soldiers out there to replace them with. Plus the torturer was clearly made out to be like he was in charge of the process, doing the questioning not just the torture itself. It also seems he was trusted enough to presumably be in on the ruse. That is presuming that Theon was released with the intention of hunting him down again similar to what happened to him in the book.

Informing soldiers of Theons escape and then hunting down Theon for sport...while disposing of expendable garrison from the Dreadfort in the process just to mindf%#k Theon doesn't at all seem out of character for the Bastard of Bolton. It's actually probably one of the least scumbag things he's got on his ledger.

I'm certainly willing to see where it all leads before condemning it completely, but so far it doesn't make a lot of sense. Killing four of them just to gain Theon's trust.. It just depends on where the story goes next.

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I expect Domeric will be like he is in the books, a character mentioned later on by Roose to highlight Ramsay's evil and manipulation and to cast pity on Roose as he becomes a more pivotal character.

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I don't really think Ramsey is all that concerned with any war effort or shortages of manpower/soldiers. He seems entirely consumed with entertaining himself at the expense of others.

the only reason he can do what he does is because he has loyal dreadfort men to help him. they wouldn't stay loyal for long (especially because they report to roose so the cat would be out the bag)

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the only reason he can do what he does is because he has loyal dreadfort men to help him. they wouldn't stay loyal for long (especially because they report to roose so the cat would be out the bag)

Why would the Dreadfort men ever find out the true story of what happened. It's not like Theon is a trustworthy source of information even if he spilled. As far as anyone knows 5 guys got lost in the woods and Ramsey brought the prize back.

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Why would the Dreadfort men ever find out the true story of what happened. It's not like Theon is a trustworthy source of information even if he spilled. As far as anyone knows 5 guys got lost in the woods and Ramsey brought the prize back.

How would the Dreadfort men think Theon escapted in the first place, got loose, got a horse, got out of the castle..all on his own? Not believable. Why would any of the Dreadfort men help Theon escape? They wouldn't. Not believable. So, the story the show has constructed appears to be illogical if you think about for more than 10 seconds.

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If Domeric were alive, Roose wouldn't have sent his bastard to take Winterfell from Theon.

I second that, Roose mentions that Ramsey is in charge, so Domeric is already dead, so no need to mention that Domeric was far from a torturer.

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How would the Dreadfort men think Theon escapted in the first place, got loose, got a horse, got out of the castle..all on his own? Not believable. Why would any of the Dreadfort men help Theon escape? They wouldn't. Not believable. So, the story the show has constructed appears to be illogical if you think about for more than 10 seconds.

The guys who chased after Theon obviously didn't question that he had simply escaped. When Ramsay shows up with Theon and says Theon managed to kill the other dudes before Ramsay could catch up with them, I don't know who's going to question him.

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That's the problem. Too much thinking about something and finely dissecting something that probably is a moot point for the characters overall arc. 7 days between shows is too much time to contemplate minutia.

Ramsey is evil...he killed some guys that probably were sent for Theon by himself. The last soldier, shocked, sees the person who gave the chase order is the also the guy killing him and calls him Bastard as a wink wink to readers. It really doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

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The guys who chased after Theon obviously didn't question that he had simply escaped. When Ramsay shows up with Theon and says Theon managed to kill the other dudes before Ramsay could catch up with them, I don't know who's going to question him.

Yes, but it does not make sense, like I said, if you think about it. He couldn't possibly escape himself, get out of the castle with a horse unless someone helped him. We know that nobody at the Dreadfort is going to cross the Boltons like that and that there is no benefit to doing so for someone to do it, the chances that Theon would escape all the way back to Pyke in order to reward whomever helped him escape would be slim to none, which any Dreadfort person would know. So, the whole thing is illogical from top to bottom if the premise is that the Dreadfort men really thought Theon escaped and Ramsey killed his own guys and then is going to blame it on Theon, weak from torture but was able to shoot 5 men down?

It would have made a lot more sense and been logically consistent if the entire hunt was staged and Ramsey just then took him back to captivity instead of killing his own guys.

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The show doesn't have the luxury of chapter upon chapter of inuendos and Ramsey heresay to prove what an ahole Ramsey is, so they may have to offend book reader logic to prove a faster point in an already rushed adaptation. I agree there are holes...but theres been bigger one in the Ramsey/Theon/Hornblower saga than just 5 guys going missing. The other couple hundred people at the Dreadfort will probably not miss them...there's a war going on...I'm pretty sure they're not the first people to go missing without explanation.

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It's very sloppy plot construction that only holds up if you don't think about it, and could easily have been done in the context of the show without the mile wide plot holes of Ramsey killing 5 of his own men, which presumes they are not a part of his 'hunts' and that apparently the Dreadfort is run so loosely that the heir to the Iron Islands can escape all on his own, because no one at the Dreadfort was in on letting him escape.

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Your theory is pretty cool but there's just no way it Domeric.

I also don't see any continuity errors here. I find it completely believable that Ramsay does this. This is all for fun. He didn't tell the guards he was going to let Theon go, he just did it, and probably chirped them for letting him escape and told them to go after him. See it wasn't just a hunt for Theon, it was a hunt for all the Bolton men. Ramsay don't give a fuck about these guys. He came up to them and ordered them to torture Theon while he pretended to be a janitor. What were they going to say? "No , Lord Ramsay". He would have tortured THEM if they said no. People don't mess with Ramsay because hes batshit insane and is the heir to the Dreadfort.. This guy yells "bastard" before he dies because hes probably been thinking for a while that Ramsay would kill him for no reason, which in fact, Ramsay does.

Gotta say I am loving this storyline. Such a great introduction to one of the best villians of all time. I literally jumped up when the dieing torture says "Oh, you little bastard" ahha.

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We know from the book that Ramsay became the heir of Roose Bolton only after Domeric Bolton, the rightful heir to the Dreadfort suffered an unfortunate 'accident', most likely by Ramsay's hands, as Roose himself tells Theon at a later time.

Could the producers insert that in the tv show to better portray Ramsay's true character?

Until this episode I believed everything in the Dreadfort dungeon with Theon's torturers was just a ploy and everybody knew that the guy torturing Theon was not Ramsay, and they played along in his escape so that Ramsay could have one of his little hunts.

Now I believe his position is a normal one for a bastard raised at his lord father's court. Jon was a exception for many reasons, and even him had some problems with Cat.

I believe Ramsay released Theon not for his own entertainment, but to set a trap for his brother. Once he'll trick Theon in revealing all that happened at Winterfell, he'll just take Theon back to the Dreadfort, accuse Theon for the death of Domeric and his guards, and force Roose to declare him his next heir, especially after getting the information from Theon, proving his worth as his father's right hand.

This will really change the scene with Roose and Reek/Theon having their first face to face.

This doesn't work because Roose wouldn't have told Robb that he would send his bastard to Winterfell if he had a true born living son at the time...

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The character who tortured Theon and wanted to fuck him into the dirt is credited as "Skinner" on IMDB.



I don't think he has a name or anything, he's just an unidentified torturer at the Dreadfort (although he seemed to be the leader of the guys who were torturing Theon, and he definitely took part in Operation Winterfell because he was wearing Dagmer's robes.)



So, definitely not Domeric Bolton. IIRC, there was an interview with Iwan Rheon where he talked about Ramsay's backstory in the TV show, and his fratricide was one of the things Rheon mentioned. So, yeah, Domeric is also dead in HBO-canon.


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