What do people think of Locke? [book spoilers]

[cybobbie]

why do people think locke is so boring and vargo is so ''interesting?''

what's so ''interesting'' about vargo?

i just found him an abhorrent but hilarious caricature of a character. i enjoyed him. but im not at all mad with the replacing him.

I liked Vargo and his group while reading the books, but second that it was a good move to replace him in the show. I mean my non book reader friends are already having some problems now and them to identify some characters, and also I totally agree with the quote bellow.

Locke is important to establish the Boltons as players in the story, you have Locke with Jaime, Roose with Robb, and "Boy" with Theon.

TV viewers wouldn't undertand the whole Vargo Hoat thing, he was a minor and unimportant disposable book character with a complex loyalty switch, so this works better with what they are trying to do, establish House Bolton for later and more terrible things to come.

TV Viewers are thinking the "northmen" are taking some payback on a Lannister, just like "boy" and theon, they are not sure about these guys and are guessing, its misdirection to create a suprise when the horrible truth about the Boltons comes out, lol.

Well put. I got some feedback from my non book reader friends about Locke and the fact that he cut Jaime's hand and consequences of his actions and most of them believe that he was being loyal to the Boltons and Robb and it was a punishment that Robb will find fit. So, so far, none of them have a clue about what will come.

[The Fourth Head]

Tywin should at least demand Lockes head. Again, Tywin has stated over and over how important it is to strike down and punish any form of slight against their House, to make sure their name is still feared and respected. Why should this go unpunished? All Roose has to do is to deprecate, swear that he had no part in it (wich is probably true) and send Tywin his head (or skin).

Tywin states in ASOS that if you punish those who bend the knee, no-one else will bend the knee in future. He is willing to forgive the Riverlands for openly rebelling and committing treason, because it suits him. I hardly think he is going to restart a war he took so much effort to end just so he can punish a family who have already bent the knee for the actions of one individual renegade acting out.

Another issue is timing. It takes a while for Jamie to get back to KL-= by which time, the Boltons have bolted. Another issue is the Bear- Jamie has to save Brienne from someone- and Roose is a man of discretion. It would give the game away to have Roose playing with Brienne, so realistically, Locke has to stay in Harrenhal and Roose has to go.

I think best way to play it, is for Locke to be the one tormenting Brienne with the bear, Tywin to find out what Locke did when Jamie gets back to KL, which is after the RW and after we know that the Roose is loose, Tywin gets angry, and Roose to send him Locke's flayed body in compensation. It would fit in nicely with the whole "Boltons killing their own men" thing. Alternatively, they could stick to the books, allow Clegane to recapture Harrenhal and dismember Locke, and so when Tywin finds out it was Locke who chopped Jamies hand off, he goes "oh well, the man is missing his hands and feet so I guess that squares it"

[I'll pay the iron price]

I agree and think he's a more than adequate replacement for Vargo Hoat.

Quite.

Why are you assuming Tywin isn't going to do anything?

Hopefully Locke will run into a "Mountain" as per his book alter ego

[Unhit]

I think that part of how this scene was done was also for the purpose to give show-only viewers the impression of a loyal House Bolton. Even among its followers, they would rather silence a valuable, yet annoying captive, instead of releasing him for the hope of gold (I agree with DragonsHungry).

I think this fits quite nicely with that we've seen Karstak mutter over the "distraction", while Bolton was trusted with Harrenhal. And also, I only just noticed this now after going through the scenes in my mind again: did you guys also notice how the outfits Theon's captors/torturers had were Iron Islander outfits? For viewers, they might really get the impression that Theon's own men dragged him off, after all, and that Roose's bastard, as told in the show, truely only found a burnt down Winterfell. I mean, we know that the captors are Bolton men, but the fact that they are disguised as Iron Islanders is intriguing and quite a nice idea on the show writers, imo.

Anyway, yes, I think this is one of a series of aspects to not yet show how much cruelties House Bolton is responsible for - until the big revelation later this season.

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

I wonder what they're gonna state as Locke's motive for giving Jaimie the chop. I mean he is a Bolton man through and through after all, where Hoat was just a sellsword.

[Conchobar]

I would have preferred Vargo and his brave companions

Well it would have confused non- book readers. And they're already confused enough as it is.

[Maxthestig]

I can't really not see the guy from Tomb Raider. So it spoils the whole thing for me haha

[Kaitscralt]

I like Locke a lot, I just wish they would occasionally give these new characters some dialogue about the king they serve. Even just one line. I think the writers are taking it for granted that the non-readers find Roose and his House memorable enough to spin all these different sub-plots off of it without better explaining who a lowlife like Locke is in the scheme of the war.

Sick of confused non-readers.

[Cas Stark]

I like Locke a lot, I just wish they would occasionally give these new characters some dialogue about the king they serve. Even just one line. I think the writers are taking it for granted that the non-readers find Roose and his House memorable enough to spin all these different sub-plots off of it without better explaining who a lowlife like Locke is in the scheme of the war.

Sick of confused non-readers.

I agree, they should have given Roose a little more substantial dialogue and filled in the back story of Stark/Bolton history to beef up his character before this season, rather than just have him glare at Talisa and throw in a few one liners to Robb.

[Theda Baratheon]

I think Roose should have had a bit more screen-time aswell. He pops up a few times, but most non-readers I've spoken to don't have a clue who he is/have completely forgotten about that random guy that walked into Robb's tent a few times.

[DragonsHungry]

Hopefully Locke will run into a "Mountain" as per his book alter ego

Actually I hope Locke is not killed and sticks around for awhile, sometimes people simply get away with doing bad stuff in GRRM's world. Having a minion Bolton Bannerman as Roose's goon as an antongist, especially one who got away with something badass as cutting off the Kingslayer's hand, he imakes a good foil for characters whose stories are up north, Jon Snow, Stannis, Davos, Asha, Theon, etc.

Maybe Tywin does wants Roose to do something, but like many times in the story, it never happens simply because other events trump it, like the fact he dies on the crapper, Jaime has other things to worry about in the Riverlands, etc.

The Starks haven't gotten any "revenge" agains the Lannisters yet, so why should there be any gratification for Jaime Lannister at all?

There is no need to worry about "comeuppance", doo doo happens in Westeros and it doesn't often happen.

[I'll pay the iron price]

Actually I hope Locke is not killed and sticks around for awhile, sometimes people simply get away with doing bad stuff in GRRM's world. Having a minion Bolton Bannerman as Roose's goon as an antongist, especially one who got away with something badass as cutting off the Kingslayer's hand, he imakes a good foil for characters whose stories are up north, Jon Snow, Stannis, Davos, Asha, Theon, etc.

Maybe Tywin does wants Roose to do something, but like many times in the story, it never happens simply because other events trump it, like the fact he dies on the crapper, Jaime has other things to worry about in the Riverlands, etc.

The Starks haven't gotten any "revenge" agains the Lannisters yet, so why should there be any gratification for Jaime Lannister at all?

There is no need to worry about "comeuppance", doo doo happens in Westeros and it doesn't often happen.

True but you cant chop off Tywins favourite childs hand and live to a ripe old age :cool4:

[locke and key]

I liked him a lot, until the end of ep 3, as up until then he's been set up as an intelligent character and then just chopping off jaime's hand (which isn't particularly clever, as it will incur the wrath of tywin and roose) completely contrasts with this. while with vargo it was clever becuase he needed to drive tywin and roose apart, being a bolton loyalist locke has no need for this as far as we know.

(I may have to change my name because of this :bang: )

[cuendillar]

I liked him a lot, until the end of ep 3, as up until then he's been set up as an intelligent character and then just chopping off jaime's hand (which isn't particularly clever, as it will incur the wrath of tywin and roose) completely contrasts with this. while with vargo it was clever becuase he needed to drive tywin and roose apart, being a bolton loyalist locke has no need for this as far as we know.

(I may have to change my name because of this :bang: )

Depends on how "in" he is on Roose's plans. If he simply plans to get the reward for turning Jaime over to the northerners it costs him nothing. They're obviously just going to execute him anyway, so I doubt they care one bit how many hands he has. It also shuts him up and gets rid of the arrogance that could make him annoying company until then.

He basically has no reason to believe that Roose will care one bit about it, and Tywin's probably going to be more pissed about the head than about the hand.

[Brienne Of Bombay]

Locke seems as dangerous and unpredictable as Vargo Hoat, which I like. But I'm definitely going to miss the Bloody Mummers.

[ladyinblack]

Locke is the man. 10x better then Vargo. He is 100% loyal to the king in the north. And Jaime was trying to be sly and thought Locke was dumb and Locke knew it. He also loathed Jaime crying about "my father" so I gotta say Locke is one of my new favorites. He's definitely going to bite it though, you won't escape the wrath of cutting off Jaimes hand a la Vargo. ( though the person who actually cut off Jaimes hand in the books is still alive though )

he was killed by Nymeria when he & 2 other were sent out after Arya when she escaped Harrenhal

[BenPlumm]

he was killed by Nymeria when he & 2 other were sent out after Arya when she escaped Harrenhal

You're thinking of Iggo who was slain by Nymeria in the Riverlands, Zollo who cut off Jaime's hand is still alive

[therustman]

The show has already established that Tywin will overlook slights against his House for short term benefits - re the Tyrells, even explaining why this is necessary. Tywin doing a deal with Roose to end the war without the death of thousands of Lannister soldiers is not 'character assassination'.

[Direwolfsigil]

I think Roose should have had a bit more screen-time aswell. He pops up a few times, but most non-readers I've spoken to don't have a clue who he is/have completely forgotten about that random guy that walked into Robb's tent a few times.

Even with constant reminders of who he is, none of my friends can remember Roose Bolton, I don't want to overemphasize him obviously, but it seems like hes not memorable for many.

By replacing Roose with tywin in Harrenhall, show watchers get to know Tywin better, Arya too, but they miss out on Roose bigtime in the process.

but yeah like you said, to most viewers, hes just the guy in Robb's tent who is CONSTANTLY getting interrupted by Thalisa, Im wondering if robb is going to bring her with him to the twins in the show, because Roose might wanna have a talk with her.

[Frumpus]

I think Roose should have had a bit more screen-time aswell. He pops up a few times, but most non-readers I've spoken to don't have a clue who he is/have completely forgotten about that random guy that walked into Robb's tent a few times.

Roose is one of those details that non-book readers will pick up on if they rewatch the show. But definitely from a first time glance, Roose is likely to be forgotten.