[Book spoilers]Criticism ( the little things )

[zaphodbrx]

This post is about some scenes in the show which I felt bummed about, even if they are little things.

First one is the scene with Jamie getting his hand cut off. You can clearly see here that there is like half a second where Jamie looks at is hand and then goes, okay this is my cue to scream, and does so.

This can't really work in real life. Your hand gets cut, that message goes straight to your brain. You don't have to look at the damn thing. Also, screaming is INVOLUNTARY. It's a reaction. You don't get to think about it, it just happens.

I am really annoyed by this type of thing and it crops up ALL over the place in tv and movies. A good example would be the scene in the last Star wars film where general grievous elaborately flashes his lightsabers like two inches from Obi Wan's nose and the actor doesn't bat an eyelid. In reality, one would have an instant reaction to step back, jedi training or not I call B.S. Of course in reality that thing is CGI'd in and the actor has no idea what he's looking at so that's why.

Second scene is with Theon getting hit with a morning star.

We are looking at two horses charging at full speed, and that monstrous thing is whirling like crazy against a dude with no armor or shield.

In an actual scenario, Theon would have a crushed skull, not just thrown from horseback.

On rewatching this it looks like Theon got hit in the gut, the way he whimpers and moans on the ground.

Still, it's pretty unbelievable.

Next scene, 'boy' slays four men with four arrows in less than four seconds.

There's a clip of the perhaps world's fastest archer, Lars Anderson, and even he rarely gets to one arrow per second and that is with 30 pound draw bows that are just for show really and would not pierce mail.

A typical medieval longbowman would fire at about one arrow in six seconds, and that's when not really aiming at a single target but rather at an area.

I don't know, it's just all these little things that bug me.

In the premiere episode, I found the 'Barristan rescue' thing kind of weird too, as it was never explained how Selmy got freed from being restrained by Jorah.

Rant over, discuss.

[lostinwesteros]

Yeah, I can see your points, and I think they're valid. I just think they're relatively minor in the whole scheme of things. But then, I'm one who loved the episode except for the fact that there wasn't more Arya (and I thought her walking up to the Hound and asking him if he remembered the last time he was there was weak and rather pointless). Then next for me was the Pod scene - I thought it was humorous, but unnecessary, and there are so many other things in the book, IMO, that are more important to include. So, I guess my criticisms are relatively minor in the whole scheme of things, too. :unsure:

[Ran]

You don't have to look at the damn thing. Also, screaming is INVOLUNTARY. It's a reaction. You don't get to think about it, it just happens.

One of the very well-known effects of shock is that things you might consider normal parts of the voluntary and involuntary reaction process don't in fact happen. People in WWI or WWII torn up by shrapnel would sometimes pick up body parts and carry them around, not quite grasping what had happened or really processing the pain until a later time.

In other words, it does in fact happen.

[Cas Stark]

I'm more irritated by what I see as glaring plot holes and inconsistencies.

Like Arya spending the entire last season at Harenhall and never once mentioning or seeing soldiers from her brother's army held prisoner there...and then all of a sudden this season it appears that several hundred of them were held prisoner there and are now dead.

Or Ramsey letting Theon escape but not telling any of his own men about it and then killing them, whose going to believe that a tortured Theon with no weapon was able to kill all 5 of these guys with a bow?

Or the crazy hodgepodge they've made of the timing on Bran and Rickon's "deaths" and Robb's marriage, and now we find out show Robb thinks they are not even dead? WTF.

Also, the amount of time that is wasted on non essential scenes like this weeks Pod and the whores, that weren't in the books and don 't even move the plot forward.

[Ser Luke.]

The only real problem I had with this episode was the ten minute whore scene. This is coming from someone who wasn't bothered at all by The Littlefinger scene with the two girls totally going to town together. That scene at least gave Baelish some backstory.

But this scene just felt really, really out of place. The weird comedy involved in the scene made me feel like I wasn't watching Game of Thrones.

[Lord Davos Seaworth]

Yeah I completely disagree with the Jaime thing.

When I was a lil' kid, I can't recall how many times I would fall off my bike or something and get up fine... then seconds later look at my elbow to see it gushing with blood and THEN proceed to bawl my eyes out.

I've never had my hand cut off, but I assume it would be relatively the same idea in the sense that the scream doesn't have to come right away until he sees it.

[kephv]

Or Ramsey letting Theon escape but not telling any of his own men about it and then killing them, whose going to believe that a tortured Theon with no weapon was able to kill all 5 of these guys with a bow?

I'm sure no one will question Ramsay. After all, they probably don't want to be flayed.

Or the crazy hodgepodge they've made of the timing on Bran and Rickon's "deaths" and Robb's marriage, and now we find out show Robb thinks they are not even dead? WTF.

This has me confused as well. Not sure why they didn't have Cat find out about it last season. Unless they thought it would completely undo her since she's been reduced to where whenever she speaks it's only about her children.

Also, the amount of time that is wasted on non essential scenes like this weeks Pod and the whores, that weren't in the books and don 't even move the plot forward.

I liked the Meereenese knot gag, but other than that I would agree. Waste of time.

[Jamie Lannister]

Or Ramsey letting Theon escape but not telling any of his own men about it and then killing them, whose going to believe that a tortured Theon with no weapon was able to kill all 5 of these guys with a bow?

That's not really a plot hole or inconsistency. Ramsay is a psychopath and this game he's playing is risky, dangerous, callous, and twisted. That's pretty much his MO in the novels too.

[RoamingRonin]

It's not uncommon for someone to sustain serious bodily harm but not feel any pain. Jaime's reaction wasn't out of the odinary. It's really, really pointless trying to figure out the realism of the combat in TV shows.

I am really annoyed by this type of thing and it crops up ALL over the place in tv and movies. A good example would be the scene in the last Star wars film where general grievous elaborately flashes his lightsabers like two inches from Obi Wan's nose and the actor doesn't bat an eyelid. In reality, one would have an instant reaction to step back, jedi training or not I call B.S. Of course in reality that thing is CGI'd in and the actor has no idea what he's looking at so that's why.

Obi-Wan - a master jedi - is supposed to blink because a lightsaber is in his face? He's been training his whole life to expect that sort of thing. Not to mention he's a pilot in space. I'm sure he's used to incredibly bright lights and fast-moving objects being all up in his vision.

[Xcorpyo001]

About the shock thing...it is for real, trust me. I know that for a fact.

When I was 4 years I was playing 'war' with my neighbor using very sharp butcher knives from his father's shop. Long story short, I managed to completely lose a finger. I will never forget my reaction.

I just stopped, looked at my missing finger, saw the red blood mixed with white marrow from the bone, calmly picked up the finger, went to my grandmother and told her that there is tomato sauce spilling from my hand(home made one, with seeds in it...the marrow mixed with the blood...hey, I was just a kid in shock).

Enough to say that she screamed long before I started. But roughly 3 minutes after, the pain came hard. I remember howling like a madman all the way to the hospital.

Other than that, there are some scenes that were a little off. But the one with the hand seemed plausible to me, although losing a hand sure beats losing a single finger.

[SerArthurHeath]

The pain wouldn't hit him until later (the amount of pain involved in limb loss, if unexpected, would be buffered by endorphins, adrenaline and other pain suppression routes or else the sufferer would lose consciousness which would be fatal in most situations in which one is likely to lose a limb). The scream was at teh realisation that he had lost his hand, not the pain, it wasn't an "in pain" sounding scream, it was a "OMG, my life is ruined" scream, I thought it was quite realistic and the best bit about the hand-loss. Jaime didn't expect to have his hand cut off so the gap was realistic to my knowledge of pain theory and neuroscience, which is not negligible

[Bolivar]

The realism things do kind of dampen the suspension of disbelief.

I was more perturbed by the acting and direction. The small council chair scene went on just a little too long, establishing that these were in fact, actors in front of a camera doing what they were told, and not believable characters in a story.

Same with the fireside scene in Craster's Keep. It looked like a large group of actors who were painfully obviously waiting for some kind of cue.

Stannis whining for sex was equally painful to watch. In the thread discussing this, someone posted David and Dan interviews about their thoughts on Stannis and I'm really starting to become terrified that they have not in fact read the later books.

Finally, last week's episode actually received a lot of praise for not showing a gratuitous pair of boobs. Yet, in their directorial debut, D&D manage to throw away that good will with Tyrion and Bronn whimsically introducing a 15 year old to whores. The following scene, about how they didn't take his money was painfully forced and had none of the easiness or believability you expect to see in any buddy comedy.

Don't get me wrong, there are many things so right with the show, but it really is being dragged down for me.

[Gannicus]

1. I wasn't a fan of the Stannis scene

2. I think they're doing too much, too fast with Theon.

[SerArthurHeath]

1. I wasn't a fan of the Stannis scene

2. I think they're doing too much, too fast with Theon.

How are they doing it too fast with Theon?

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

1. I wasn't a fan of the Stannis scene

2. I think they're doing too much, too fast with Theon.

They've slowed Theon's arc, if anything. We don't see all this weird shit Ramsey does, we just hear about it later. Although I agree with Stannis.

This thread is hilarious though. We're reading books and watching a series containing magic, dragons, and undead killing machines but its all for nought because someone screamed unrealistically and another guy got off too many arrows in a short span of time.

[Joyful Union]

The only real problem I had with this episode was the ten minute whore scene. This is coming from someone who wasn't bothered at all by The Littlefinger scene with the two girls totally going to town together. That scene at least gave Baelish some backstory.

But this scene just felt really, really out of place. The weird comedy involved in the scene made me feel like I wasn't watching Game of Thrones.

10 minute whore scene? The scene with the whores was like 2 minutes long.

[a free shadow]

Next scene, 'boy' slays four men with four arrows in less than four seconds.

There's a clip of the perhaps world's fastest archer, Lars Anderson, and even he rarely gets to one arrow per second and that is with 30 pound draw bows that are just for show really and would not pierce mail.

A typical medieval longbowman would fire at about one arrow in six seconds, and that's when not really aiming at a single target but rather at an area.

Two of those arrows were Edmure's :D

snap

Or pain does come after some days. First a wound, then it gets numbed with medication, and after a few days it hurst for a second and you say "Ouch". :ninja:

Did you get yours fixed?

[Joyful Union]

Next scene, 'boy' slays four men with four arrows in less than four seconds.

There's a clip of the perhaps world's fastest archer, Lars Anderson, and even he rarely gets to one arrow per second and that is with 30 pound draw bows that are just for show really and would not pierce mail.

A typical medieval longbowman would fire at about one arrow in six seconds, and that's when not really aiming at a single target but rather at an area.

Except he didn't kill the four men with four arrows in less than four seconds. He hits the first guy twice, then there's a pause, and then he hits the other three, and certainly not in four seconds. Also, who says it was a long bow?

I agree that the speed and skill was ridiculous, but its not as bad as you make it seem.

[StarkDragon]

They've slowed Theon's arc, if anything. We don't see all this weird shit Ramsey does, we just hear about it later. Although I agree with Stannis.

This thread is hilarious though. We're reading books and watching a series containing magic, dragons, and undead killing machines but its all for nought because someone screamed unrealistically and another guy got off too many arrows in a short span of time.

Eh, the scream I get you on, but the arrows just doesn't keep the continuity of their universe for me, if it was indeed that fast.

It was like skinny ass Gandalf falling faster than that ginormous beast in the Twin Towers LOTR movie. Not that the arrows was that bad, but it's jarringly arguing that the laws of the universe bend at the whim of the author, rather than being completely structured to actual relevant realism.

Which, GRRM's story is suppose to have some fantasy realism to it, so arguing for realism isn't completely unfair imo.

[Joyful Union]

Eh, the scream I get you on, but the arrows just doesn't keep the continuity of their universe for me, if it was indeed that fast.

It was like skinny ass Gandalf falling faster than that ginormous beast in the Twin Towers LOTR movie. Not that the arrows was that bad, but it's jarringly arguing that the laws of the universe bend at the whim of the author, rather than being completely structured to actual relevant realism.

Which, GRRM's story is suppose to have some fantasy realism to it, so arguing for realism isn't completely unfair imo.

GRRM is pretty guilty of this sort of thing at times. Tyrion during the battle of Blackwater? He was a whirlwind of death! Without any training and very little experience, suddenly he's able to cut his way through experienced men at arms and knights. It stretched believability when he was on a horse, but on foot?