I'm no friend of Balon Greyjoy, but he had no obligation to accept Robb Stark's alliance

[Ramsay Gimp]

BTW, I find it a little puzzling that the Greyjoys didn't take Bear Island. Yes, it is a poor backwater, but so is most of the North. And on top of that, it would be easy to take and hold. If the Ironborn burn or seize any of the ships that the Mormonts must have there, the Northmen will have to construct a fleet in the West just to retake the Island

[Lord Reaver]

Indeed. We have no way of knowing when Asha had a "change of heart", as she seems to have had on the matter of the North. In fact, one could speculate that she came to her decision as late as after she had the talk with Vic where he quite bluntly shoots her suggestion of cooperation down on account of her being a woman.

[Red Knight]

i think balon was practical, he couldnt take down the lannisters so he exacted his revenge on the starks

[Barty]

BTW, I find it a little puzzling that the Greyjoys didn't take Bear Island. Yes, it is a poor backwater, but so is most of the North. And on top of that, it would be easy to take and hold. If the Ironborn burn or seize any of the ships that the Mormonts must have there, the Northmen will have to construct a fleet in the West just to retake the Island

Probably because Bear Island had a clear leader(The She Bear - Alysane) and it's people are more martial than mainlanders. IIRC - their women fight as well and they are constantly on the watch for an attack from the ironborn ( which is why their women learn to fight in the first place). It's also a small place so it's forces are spread out over a smaller distance and can mobilize quickly.

[Barty]

i think balon was practical, he couldnt take down the lannisters so he exacted his revenge on the starks

Why couldn't he take down the Lannisters?? With an alliance with Robb - it would be the Starks, Tullys and Greyjoys against the Lannisters alone ( Balon couldn't have known Renly would die and the Tyrells would join Lannisters ) at a time when one of their 2 main armies has been put out of action and one of their main leaders is prisoner.

It's no secret that the Lannisters were in a bad position.

[Thor Odinson]

Why couldn't he take down the Lannisters?? With an alliance with Robb - it would be the Starks, Tullys and Greyjoys against the Lannisters alone ( Balon couldn't have known Renly would die and the Tyrells would join Lannisters ) at a time when one of their 2 main armies has been put out of action and one of their main leaders is prisoner.

It's no secret that the Lannisters were in a bad position.

Yep. Balon's move was stupid on multiple levels.

1) By spurning an alliance with the North, he was rejecting the one group of people who would've had no problem with an independent Iron Islands.

2) By attacking the North he was serving as a de facto ally to the Lannisters, except that Balon got absolutely nothing out of the deal. At the very least he should've had the sense to strike up some kind of alliance with the Lannisters first so that he could've derived additional benefit. Sure, he may've attacked the North anyway, but Tywin didn't need to know that. He could've gotten something out of the Lannisters for doing something that he was going to do already.

3) Attacking the North strengthened the hand of the people who WOULD have a problem with an independent Iron Islands. Had he allied with Robb and they'd won then you'd have at least three independent kingdoms: The North, the Iron Islands, and the Seven Four Kingdoms. For the Iron Throne to try to retake the Iron Islands, they'd have to do so with only half its strength, all while risking attack by the North/Riverrun. But if the North loses the war then it gets reconquered, which means that when the Iron Throne finally moves on the Iron Islands it has the strength of nearly all the kingdoms behind it with no other distractions.

4) Striking at Casterly Rock, Lannisport, or King's Landing would've reaped far greater rewards for the Iron Men than anything those small fishing villages in the North had to offer.

Allying with the North was the best and surest way for the Balon to achieve his goals. An independent North and sundered Seven Kingdoms is the best thing for the Iron Islands (And I suspect that, if enough force had been brought to bear against the Lannisters, then Dorne would've joined in the bloodletting and possibly seceeded as well). The more division there is, the better for the Iron Men because it makes it more possible for them to do as they like, while a united Seven Kingdoms can only bring them to ruin, as their rebellion against Robert demonstrated. Siding with the North would've gotten Balon everything he ever wanted. That he did the exact opposite just goes to show how much of a blazing idiot he is.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Probably because Bear Island had a clear leader(The She Bear - Alysane) and it's people are more martial than mainlanders. IIRC - their women fight as well and they are constantly on the watch for an attack from the ironborn ( which is why their women learn to fight in the first place). It's also a small place so it's forces are spread out over a smaller distance and can mobilize quickly.

Deepwood Motte has a clear leader as well - House Glover. And the islanders can defend themselves against reavers, sure, but not a full-on invasion. With the Mormont troops in the South, a couple thousand Ironborn could take Bear Island easily

[Red Knight]

Why couldn't he take down the Lannisters?? With an alliance with Robb - it would be the Starks, Tullys and Greyjoys against the Lannisters alone ( Balon couldn't have known Renly would die and the Tyrells would join Lannisters ) at a time when one of their 2 main armies has been put out of action and one of their main leaders is prisoner.

It's no secret that the Lannisters were in a bad position.

Bro we are talking about Tywin Lannister, half the realm is scared of him and with reason... If Starks gave him the crown they could take it as easily, and he did well, his kingdom lives still whereas Kin in the North is gone. I am Robb's fan but you got to be real, he couldn't be stark's slave.

[Fetch me a block]

As opposed to betraying the man you called your brother and agreeing with wanton rape, murder, and pillaging? Yeah, Theon should have put his dagger through Balons heart and sailed back to the Oldstones while the Ironborn flustered amongst themselves over a new leader.

So?

Robb: Is your father on our side?

Theon: No, I killed him.

Robb: What? You're a kinslayer!

Theon: It was kill him or let him ravage the North and cost you the war. You've been more family to me than he has.

Robb: Oh. No worries then!

And attacking Winterfell wasn't suicidal? Let's ask Reek how that's turned out for him. Oh right, castrated, flayed, crippled, and a captive to a man intending to burn him alive. Yep, what Theon did was MUCH better.

That's not the point. Kinslaying is like breaking guest right. It is bad, whatever the circumstances. Universally disgusted.

[Fetch me a block]

The idea that Balon was smart or that he made the right choice in attacking the North is laughable. The Iron Islands by themselves simply cannot maintain their independence from a united Westeros, period.

That the Starks and Tullys can't attack the Iron Islands or provide relief by sea is irrelevant, because regardless of whether or not the Greyjoys do anything to antagonize the South, there is not a single contender for the Iron Throne that is will accept independence for the Iron Islands. Stannis won't, Renly wouldn't, the Lannisters won't, the Tyrells won't, Aegon won't, and Dany won't.

The ONLY chance the Ironborn have of keeping their independence is if there is a separate faction on Westeros that is also independent from the Iron Throne. It doesn't even really matter if the Greyjoys and that faction are allied, the mere presence of a separate kingdom weakens and potentially threatens the Iron Throne enough to give the Iron Islands a fighting chance at maintaining their independence. Without that other kingdom in Westeros, sooner or later the Iron Islands will inevitably be brought back into the fold.

Balon, by attacking and crippling the Northern cause, also ultimately crippled the only chance at the Greyjoys had at holding onto their crown.

I gotta go now, but I'll come back soon to address other matters regarding the folly of the attack on the North.

I never said it was smart, or even the right thing to do. I do find myself liking the Greyjoys and the Ironborn, but I like the Starks more and Balon was a fool. The point is though, he's his own fool. He is an independent man.

[Maegor the Cuddly]

Bro we are talking about Tywin Lannister, half the realm is scared of him and with reason... If Starks gave him the crown they could take it as easily, and he did well, his kingdom lives still whereas Kin in the North is gone. I am Robb's fan but you got to be real, he couldn't be stark's slave.

He wouldn't have been. He misworded his offer, he should have said they could have fought together for their crowns, but he didn't, and Balon used petty semantics to justify screwing over both his side and Robb's in the war.

Robb had no interest in controlling the Iron Isles, the only reason the IF even cared was that they'd raid everyone otherwise. But if the Ironborn fought alongside the Northmen for independence, it may have created a small bond that would have prevented that, allowing them more of an avenue to raid the Westerlands and Reach.

Edit: And the only reason that they still exist as a Kingdom is because no one cares enough to take them out yet. They think that Stannis, Stannis, who is way up north, at the wall, marching south in the middle of a blizzard, is a bigger threat than the Ironborn. The Ironborn are this universe's equivalent to an angry six-year-old lashing out at everyone who gets close, but no one really cares.

[rystine]

I never said it was smart, or even the right thing to do. I do find myself liking the Greyjoys and the Ironborn, but I like the Starks more and Balon was a fool. The point is though, he's his own fool. He is an independent man.

I agree with you when you say he had no obligation to accept Robb's terms.

My point is that he was stupid not too.

Everyone who is fighting for the Iron Throne wants all seven kingdoms. The idea that Renly/Stannis/Tywin/Joffrey/Cersei/Aegon/Dany will allow the Iron Islands to remain independent simply because they don't attack anyone or attack the rebellious North instead of the South is naive and shortsighted.

[davehate]

the beef with starks is understandable..but the lannisters stayed away from any sides at that time until it was time to sack the castle from the mad king. having theon as hostage didnt help either..also the lannisters later on became friends by being enemies with his enemy imo.

[greywind93]

your completely right he had no obligation to robb but he didn't have an obligation to shot himself in the foot ether

[Erkan12]

And robb had no obligation to send his son and make him free. But greyjoys and ironislanders are not honorable, so yes he had no obligation plus he should attack them.