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LordStoneheart

Ruthless Robb [Major Spoilers]

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My sister, a non-reader, just told me she loved how much more ruthless Robb seems since season 1. She thinks it's quite attractive, and really routes for him. I'm actually dreading the look on her face when...

Yeah.

So, I've also seen it said that he is becoming an unsympathetic character and his story arc this season won't be appreciated by time the season ends. I completely disagree. This episode with Edmure really impressed me with how Richard has portrayed Robb and certain aspects of how the writers have written him. (with the exception of "i don't want to marry the Frey girl," I don't think he's too out of character from the books.) Robb in the show is now seeming more kingly in my view.

Does anyone else agree?

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It seems to me there's been lots of Robb time last season and this, but little to no time with him waging war. I dunno, it's hard for me to remember at this point that he's part of the fight to win the war, we just haven't seen it. Maybe that's too harsh, but . . . just my gut feeling.

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Well he has to act like a king now....and Edmure completely blew up his strategy.....hence he has to make up for it by marrying roslin Frey....and ....well we know the rest.......

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I still think he sucks and I don't sympathize with TV! Robb at all. What kind of king snickers at his grandpa's funeral like a 5 year old?

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It seems to me there's been lots of Robb time last season and this, but little to no time with him waging war. I dunno, it's hard for me to remember at this point that he's part of the fight to win the war, we just haven't seen it. Maybe that's too harsh, but . . . just my gut feeling.

i would of like to see more or war version of robb in the season watch him fight abit other than just talk

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We've only seen one battle the entire series...it's kind of weird.

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Well, TV!Robb knows he's loosing the war and is starting to get desperate. The actor conveys that well. I didn't like his interactions with Edmure, and they certainly don't look mature. They are well interpreted, what I mean is that I don't like the character's action.

Laughing at the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and his highest ranking officer at his grandfather's funeral is definitely not something a king should do. Ranting at Edmure when he (Robb) failed to communicate his full plans, and without a reason as in the books, it's poor leadership. Furthermore, he undermines Edmure's authority over the Blackfish. Edmure, and not the BF, is the Lord of the Riverlands.

I don't know. If I hadn't read the books, I might begin to root for the South this season.

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I like TV!Robb. He couldn't relish the thought of arresting his mom, and it's a very sad thing to see happen, but her actions more or less amounted to treason, so what could he do? As in the books, he made a huge strategic blunder in only giving partial instructions to Edmure, and seeks to shift blame - not exactly praiseworthy, but I can't imagine there's much leeway for an absolute monarch to admit that he was wrong.

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Well my nonreader friend still likes him, so that's good. One of my reader friends despises him and wants to see him die. I'm in the middle. It's his relationship with Cat that I love the most, especially in rewatching S1E10. If we get more scenes like that, or him yelling at Edmure because at least that was him *DOING* something related to the war, more people will come back around to him before the RW.

Whether I like him more or not, I care more about TV Robb than I ever did about book Robb

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I never saw it as a blunder of him not spelling every detail out to Edmure. He said hold Riverrun and Edmure knew what he wanted, but wanted glory for himself, on TV and in the books. Clearly, Robb's snicker wasn't out of amusement but out of frustrations with Edmure. I can see him thinking that, you have the nerve to disobey my orders and go after the mountain because you want to be the Lord of Riverrun and have a song sang in your name, other than the ballad of the floppy fish, yet you cannot even shoot an arrow straight enough to light the funeral pyre.

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Robb had no relationship with his grandfather. Snickering at anybody's funeral isn't kingly, but that funeral wasn't ever going to be particularly emotional to Robb.

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Robb had no relationship with his grandfather. Snickering at anybody's funeral isn't kingly, but that funeral wasn't ever going to be particularly emotional to Robb.

Still though, he's Ned Starks son. I know he's young but that was very odd for his character to chuckle when his mother is standing right there mourning the loss of her father. Not to mention he's their king and giggling is not a very regal thing to do at a funeral.

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it was less of a snicker and more of a "are you serious?"

Regarding Edmure not having full knowledge, Robb has just made his first trip to riverrun in the show, and as such all of his discussions with edmure have been via raven. To tell Edmure the entire plan would have been stupid. if someone intercepts the raven the plan is ruined. Robb told him to hold riverrun, and edmure decided to ride out and meet the mountain, against the explicit, STAY AT RIVERRUN order.

Robb i think really nailed his dressing down of edmure. "Do you think Tywin lanister is going to sow for peace because i have his... brothers.. grandsons?" It was brilliant as he had to stop and think just how far removed are these two kids from Tywin. the line about the troops was also brilliant. Robb is being shown to be an intelligent general, while making mistakes any young king might make without the guidance of a father figure. Tywin looks more brilliant in the show due to upcoming events because of it. the north could have still won the war if not for the judas actions

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it was less of a snicker and more of a "are you serious?"

I got that too, I saw it as an awkward exhale more than an actual snicker.

Anyway, I feel I lost a lot of confidence in Robb's characterisation after Season 2, seeing as pretty much all of his screentime was devoted to his relationship with Talisa. Richard Madden stated in the Comic-Con panel that he prefers playing action over romance and I think you can see that in his performance. He's an extremely interesting character when he's talking about strategy with his commanders and mother, but the romance scenes (as few as they were) just dragged. I'm assuming we'll see less of the latter this year seeing as the relationship with his Queen has already developed enough..

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So, I've also seen it said that he is becoming an unsympathetic character and his story arc this season won't be appreciated by time the season ends. I completely disagree. This episode with Edmure really impressed me with how Richard has portrayed Robb and certain aspects of how the writers have written him. (with the exception of "i don't want to marry the Frey girl," I don't think he's too out of character from the books.) Robb in the show is now seeming more kingly in my view.

Does anyone else agree?

I absolutely agree with you. I think the absolute best acting we've seen from Richard was his scene with Edmure. And I'm really looking forward to his future scenes this season, especially with Rickard Karstark.

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Marrying the paragon of virtue, Miss Talisa Nightingale, after she ribbed him for being the cause of so much death, makes him, IMO more sympathetic.

I agree with Lord Godric, Madden's scene with Edmure was fantastic. Those narrowing angry eyes to punctuate the point. Wow.

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I got that too, I saw it as an awkward exhale more than an actual snicker.

Anyway, I feel I lost a lot of confidence in Robb's characterisation after Season 2, seeing as pretty much all of his screentime was devoted to his relationship with Talisa. Richard Madden stated in the Comic-Con panel that he prefers playing action over romance and I think you can see that in his performance. He's an extremely interesting character when he's talking about strategy with his commanders and mother, but the romance scenes (as few as they were) just dragged. I'm assuming we'll see less of the latter this year seeing as the relationship with his Queen has already developed enough..

I think they were using Talisa as a foil to emphasise the moral dilemma of his cause since Joffrey beheaded Ned.

Since Ned died, Robb's cause was no longer an honourable rescue mission to defend his family and save Ned.

It became about revenge, power, control and peer pressure- "THE KING IN THE NORTH!" those were not his original motives.

What made it worse was deciding to punish his mother for attempting to rescue his sisters. He was choosing power and strategy over reuniting and saving his family. Sure, Cat plan was not the most pragmatic, but by punishing his mother, what was he fighting for? Was he is fighting for his family, or against them? He seems to have done a 180 degree flip in terms of setting out to rescue family members, to actively punishing his mums efforts to reunite them. Why? For the sake of discipline, to maintain his own cause's control and power.

Robb's cause has been soured, though to be fair to him, a lot of that was out of his control. His men are with him for revenge now, there is peer pressure to kill the enemy for the sake of it, and that is why we struggle to see Robb in a sympathetic light now. Events have forced Robb to question what is right and what is wrong- which is what GRRM likes to do with most of his characters.

The show version, Talisa, was introduced, I believe, to enable us to question Robb's cause, his motives, and show us that Robb recognises virtue when he sees it, and isn't just a blinkered war strategist machine.

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I'm lovin Robb. Laughing at his grandfather's funeral was not cool though

I've seen a lot of people on the boards upset by Robb snickering at Edmund during the funeral. I didn't really think it was that big of a deal. If you put it all in perspective Hoster Tully was an old man that survived multiple campaigns and died of natural causes in his own bed. If you're a Lord and live into your fourties in a land as martial as Westeros you've done pretty well IMO. He's probably been to more funerals than he can count since the war started, so laughing at his uncle's poor aim didn't seem that out of place.

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