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Boulderbum

Jon to climb the Wall with... (Book Spoilers)

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Didn't see another thread talking about this, but the show seems to have deviated from the books in that Jon will be climbing the wall with Tormund instead of the Magnar (who obviously wasn't cast).

In SoS, this is Jon's time to get close with Igrette. We can assume that will still happen, but how will Tormund being around change things? Will Jon's escape from the wildlings change? Will Bran still be involved? Will Tormund be captured at the battle for Castle Black (southern edition)? Will it change Igrettes fate? (Doubtful)

At least we should get some of the conversation we've missed between Tormund and Jon. Members and such.

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Looks like no Jarl, eh? But does that mean we won't have the partial wall collapse scene? Or will that happen to some nameless Wildling alongside them. Also, are they nixing the idea of the two climbing teams racing against each other?

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Looks like no Jarl, eh? But does that mean we won't have the partial wall collapse scene? Or will that happen to some nameless Wildling alongside them. Also, are they nixing the idea of the two climbing teams racing against each other?

yeah, that can definitely still happen. it doenst matter that we dont know the name of the guy who falls. its not like saying hey this is jarl, the.... would have made him mean much to the viewer

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Aye, I think the fact that one of the groups will fall to their deaths anyway made the directors decide not to introduce them. It would be a waste of screentime to build a character that would vanish one or two episodes later.

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I was hoping that we would see Tormund die in place of Jarl in the series, because I absolutely despise the Tormund from the books (he never struck me as a remotely believable or likeable character). However, I love the slightly more serious and...well, 'wild' portrayal in the show, so here's hoping that he makes it and they kill Orell in place of Jarl.

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Found this very odd too, but I presume Tormund will just be captured now and perhaps Mance will lead the wildings through the wall in Dance of Dragons.

That would make the events in ADWD and TWOW hard to work out for the show - Tormund, or someone like him, needs to be at the Wall during Jon's betrayal. We don't know what's going to happen after Jon's stabbing, but my guess is that the Wildlings and Tormund, who appear to now be loyal to Jon, will play a big part in the melee. That person at the Wall will likely not be Mance. First, most people think Mance was sacrificed to the Fire God by Mel., and second, Mance is actually in WF as Abel. I don't see how you can have all those characters combined into one Mance.

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It does kind of mix up the times, however it's possible that Jon turns his cloak (again) and warns the Wall and then the assault of Tormund's crew and Mance's army is better timed. They attack more in sync and, thanks to immense plot armor, the Wall is able to hold off the two-pronged attack. Or, Tormund escapes somehow and climbs the Wall back to the other side and meets back up with Mance

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I was hoping that we would see Tormund die in place of Jarl in the series, because I absolutely despise the Tormund from the books (he never struck me as a remotely believable or likeable character). However, I love the slightly more serious and...well, 'wild' portrayal in the show, so here's hoping that he makes it and they kill Orell in place of Jarl.

Tormond not remotely likeable or believable??? Likeable, thats a first, but what isnt believable about him? Member size?

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So, if I remember correctly, Tormund isnt supposed to attack Castle Black until Mance gives him a sign. Does this mean We miss the Styr/Ygritte battle.

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So, if I remember correctly, Tormund isnt supposed to attack Castle Black until Mance gives him a sign. Does this mean We miss the Styr/Ygritte battle.

I think Jon will kill Orell and the wildlings won't be able to see Mance's signal. I am starting to think there won't be a battle at Castle Black. Mance gave Tormund only 20 men to command in the show (instead of 200 like in the book) and I don't think they will attack Castle Black without backup with so few men.

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Tormond not remotely likeable or believable??? Likeable, thats a first, but what isnt believable about him? Member size?

No haha, I just found him too jovial I guess to have survived so long and risen so far North of the Wall, and nor did I get the impression that he could be the warrior that Martin seemed to present him as at times. Personal opinion though I guess!

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I think after Jon escapes the other members of the party will just climb back over the wall, and there will only be one battle. Ygritte would still die, and there being only one battle will save time and money for HBO.

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No haha, I just found him too jovial I guess to have survived so long and risen so far North of the Wall, and nor did I get the impression that he could be the warrior that Martin seemed to present him as at times. Personal opinion though I guess!

He is definitely overboard on the tall-talking. I imagine his schtick would get old fast. He'd be great to hang with in small doses IMO.

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Is it possible they can use the impending attack on the wall as the final cliffhanger? (two horns?) It would fit the pattern of having the big climax of the season in the penultimate episode, followed by a finale that involves the meta plot.

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No haha, I just found him too jovial I guess to have survived so long and risen so far North of the Wall, and nor did I get the impression that he could be the warrior that Martin seemed to present him as at times. Personal opinion though I guess!

I can understand how he could be found to be a bit tedious, but the joviality of Tormund represents something that is severely missing in the show - and that is the joviality of the Wildlings in general. Its supposed to be an education for Jon (and for us) that despite the really grim conditions, the terror that is chasing them and brutality of life, that the Wildlings are still happy in their freedom.

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I was disappointed when Mance said Tormund was going to because we know everyone who attacks Castle Black dies, and I don't see how Tormund could escape back to the other side of the Wall. I'm just going to have faith that they will work it out.

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I was disappointed when Mance said Tormund was going to because we know everyone who attacks Castle Black dies, and I don't see how Tormund could escape back to the other side of the Wall. I'm just going to have faith that they will work it out.

I see something like this happening:

Tormund loses about five men at Queenscrown; Jon kills Orell, while Summer and Shaggydog kill others (Ygritte will survive and be killed by Stannis' men next year). Jon, with an arrow wound, rides desperately back to the Wall to warn Castle Black. Tormund knows that Castle Black will be too fortified with the knowledge of them coming and decides to retreat back over the Wall with his 14 survivors to rejoin Mance's army.

I'll miss the Battle at Castle Black though. That was such a good chapter.

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