[BOOK SPOILERS] Edmure and Blackfish Thread

[JMJ]

Slightly OT, but related to the Tully scenes - I guess this episode means we won't be hearing anything about "Tansy"...

[ShigellaSand]

Slightly OT, but related to the Tully scenes - I guess this episode means we won't be hearing anything about "Tansy"...

Not unless Edmure or the Blackfish mentions it to Catelyn in passing. But no, I don't think we're going to find out about that until Lysa reappears in the story, or maybe not at all.

[Frey Pie]

Robb brought his entire army to lay siege to an empty castle. Wtf?

Oh, And the HM is not theon durden btw

Prove it friend :)

[Sansa in the North]

I was irritated by the Blackfish pushing Edmure out of the way like that, but only slightly, and he pretty much reedemed himself in the scene he had with Cat. I was far more irritated by Robb's snigger. Robb really is such a jerk in the show that I wont be at all sorry to see him go.

They can't do that! Everyone knows that it's in their contract that there must be a minimum of 5 minutes per episode of topless whore scenes that weren't in the books.

I mean, who cares about the dedicated fan base. Their average viewers have spoken, with a resounding "more boobs, less story development!"

I don't mind gratuitous sex scenes, if we're given some new information in the process. Sexposition, in other words. But the Pod scene was just freaking pointless. We got nothing out of it and it wasted time that could have been spent on other storylines. Such as that of the Tullys.

A couple of my non-reader friends, plus many people whom I've seen posting about it online didn't even understand who Edmure and the Blackfish were. One was convinced that they were both Cat's brothers. So, if we really needed a sex scene, why not one with Edmure and a random whore where he confides in her that his father is dead and his sister Cat is coming over for the funeral. That might have explained to non readers what's going on. And it's in the books that Edmure whores around, if I remember correctly.

The Pod scene looks to me as if it doesn't exist to fill the "5 minutes of boobs" requirement, but rather to fill the Tyrion requirement. I can understand why he was so prominent in the last season, because he was just as prominent in the last book, but he really doesn't have a lot to do during the first half of ASoS, so it's time for him, and especially for Bronn (who is a minor character, come on!) to take a back seat, so that other characters can be fleshed out properly.

[Talbot]

The Pod scene looks to me as if it doesn't exist to fill the "5 minutes of boobs" requirement, but rather to fill the Tyrion requirement. I can understand why he was so prominent in the last season, because he was just as prominent in the last book, but he really doesn't have a lot to do during the first half of ASoS, so it's time for him, and especially for Bronn (who is a minor character, come on!) to take a back seat, so that other characters can be fleshed out properly.

D&D love Bronn, along with a lot of show only viewers. The TV show is a different beast than the books in terms of which characters take precedence. It's over kill to have 3-4 scenes in one setting for a group of 4 characters (Riverrun, for example). Contextually speaking, its pretty easy to understand what kind of characters BF and Edmure will be this season without going into a massive exposition. Off the top of my head, Edmure had a good 5 minutes of screentime and shared the majority of the dialogue and focus of his scenes with Robb.

I'd even argue that Edmure and Bronn are really in the same "tier" of characters, even in the book.

The Pod sexposition was fun, which was in-line with the humorous nature of the episode. I doubt we'll see Pod and Bronn for another episode or two, so I think D&D did a good job of making sure we remember where the party is indeed at in Westeros.

[SummerSong]

... I acknowledge that I have likely become too close to the source material to opine in any objective fashion about what is or is not an acceptable deviation from the characters as written. I have read the books so many times now that I have subconsciously filled in any vacant spaces in the development of the characters with my interpretations and extrapolations. Thus, I can only say that Rob's "snicker" is out of character for "my" Rob...rudely shoving a grieving Edmure to take the shot is not an action that "my" Blackfish would have taken. All I can say objectively in support of my opinion is that these actions did not happen in the text and thus were out of character. What I cannot say is that those actions are out of character for another persons' vision of these characters... If this matches an individual book-reader's shorthand then they probably loved these scenes...if not than the reaction was likely less positive.

Ooh, I think you nailed it. :thumbsup: I'll try to remember this when I go apeshit about deviations from my own vision in the show & on this forum. Probably won't help, though. lol

[shiola]

cut for length

I applaud your post and rationale 100%. It was very well worded.

[Sword of the Morning Wood]

Some should make a short vid where Edmure grabs the bow, lines up the shot when the BF pushes him out of the way, grabs the bow, shoots, turns away, throwns the bow at Edmure and then we get a close up of the arrow hitting the water. Then Robb sniggering.

[Kasrith]

Well, sure, they could have spent more time on that whole interplay, but then they might have had to cut the Pod Goes To The Whorehouse And Doesn't Have To Pay And It's A Laugh Riot scene.

I'm really shocked at the amount of people who demand more screen time for 'important character building scenes' yet wish to make room for such by taking away the Pod scene, which imo was developing characters and greatly executed.

[Nudu]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/376121_492133777503046_756956803_n.jpg

It was really stupid. Blackfish can not treat Edmure that hard.

[Woel]

I wa

https://fbcdn-sphoto...756956803_n.jpg

It was really stupid. Blackfish can not treat Edmure that hard.

I agree with this so much (including the picture). I was simply baffled at how they portrayed Edmure, the Blackfish and Robb in this episode. Yes, the Blackfish (in the books) doesn't have much respect for Edmure. BUT THE MAN IS HIS FRIGGIN LIEGE LORD! You don't shove your liege lord, you don't act like a complete douche because he cannot hit a moving object, and you do not tell him how to adress anyone! But I guess this what happens in the universe where kings marry nurses from Volantis because of twue wuv...

[StannisandDaeny]

I thought the treatment of Edmure by the Blackfish was kind of weird, he came across as a petulant, nagging jackass more than anything.

LOL! This made my day.

As someone who is on 'Team Edmure' (he's really not as bad / stupid as people make him out to be!) I don't like how it seems the show want to dumb him down, but I can still root for him, so eh.

It's as if George Carlin rose from the grave to play the Blackfish, so no complaints there, although so far he's been far less likeable than he is in the books, too.

[Joyful Union]

People are saying that it was dick move by the Blackfish to push Edmure out of the way because he was grieving, but the Blackfish was grieving for his brother. Why is it impossible that the Blackfish would be in a bad mood?

Also, doesn't the Blackfish tell Edmure off about his strategic blunder in the books too? Didn't seem that out of character.

I agree with this so much (including the picture). I was simply baffled at how they portrayed Edmure, the Blackfish and Robb in this episode. Yes, the Blackfish (in the books) doesn't have much respect for Edmure. BUT THE MAN IS HIS FRIGGIN LIEGE LORD! You don't shove your liege lord, you don't act like a complete douche because he cannot hit a moving object, and you do not tell him how to adress anyone!

Actually, you generally honor your King above your liege lord.

[StannisandDaeny]

Actually, you generally honor your King above your liege lord.

I doubt this.

[VivaVictarion2]

Thought the casting was great on both accounts. Loved Brutus in Rome, and the Blackfish has that same quality that Sean Bean and ?Mark Addy? gave to Ned and Robert; that sense that these guys are highborn lords to the core, but they also have a great sense of ruggedness.

The Blackfish is supposed to be the right man for the job, and in the funeral scene from the books he steps in and makes the shot WHILE ALSO showing tremendous respect for Edmure as his leige lord. The scene in the show, back to back with the scene w/ Robb, lays it on a bit too thick that the Blackfish lacks respect for Edmure. It would have been better for TV viewers, IMO, if Brynden was portrayed as a loyal retainer while in public but a hardass behind close doors. I imagine, if I had not been a reader first, that this would make for a more intersting character.

[Matthew Marzolf]

Edmure being treated like joe jerkoff came as bit of a surprise, since I've only read up to Clash of Kings so far, where he seems quite capable in managing the affairs at Riverrun. Maybe his failures only become apparent in the third novel? In which case they had to hurry things along.

He got himself captured in GOT by getting lured out and falling into Tywin and the Mountains trap. A trap Ned Stark saw coming all the way in King's landing. If Rob hadn't sneaked up, surprised and captured Jamie in the Whispering Woods and took the army laying siege from behind by surprise, they would all have been yelling "The King in the South! The king in the South!

[Tony Soprano]

Both Clive Russel and Tobias Menzies are exactly how I pictured Brynden and Edmure to look. I also think adding black scales to the Blackfish's armor is very charming and witty.

I didn't like the funeral scene at all, though. And that's owed to the Blackfish's treatment of Edmure. I've always though he and Robb were to hard on him in the books, but this is just taking it to a whole new level. I've never thought the Blackfish would be so insensitive, so yeah, it got to me. Also, I didn't like how he and Robb scolded Edmure for winning the battle against Tywin. Their grand plan failed, but it's not his fault. If anything, not telling Edmure was their folly. But enough of this, let's save it for General. :P

But he finally redeemed himself in the scene with Cat. Dear TV Blackfish, I'm sorry I thought you were an insensitive brute and I'm very glad you showed your feelings about Lord Hoster, unlike the books, where you just kept quiet. All in all, I have some nitpicks, but I still like the character, and I think the casting is phenomenal.

I don't have a lot to say about Edmure, to be honest. I only wish he had a bit more screentime. I've always liked him as a character, and I've always been sympathetic to his fate. Also, Tobias Menzies is great.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

I was never much of a robb fan in the books... But I HATE him on the show, I mean really, I'm going to be cheering when that douche bag gets killed, I find him ENTIRELY unlikable in the show. Always bugged me that Robb "DERP" Stark gets mad at Edmure for winning a battle when he didnt even inform him of the plan (Edmure commands a huge portion of your forces, is the second most important lord in the kingdom and you dont bother to tell him your plans? Thats Robbs fuck up, not edmures). Not to mention Show rob throws away alliances to marry a random nurse... wtf. Dont even get me started on him laughing at his uncle who just lost his father...

I also dont like them turning blackfish, one of the awesome book characters, into a gigantic douchebag.

I really hope they give Edmure some redeeming quality/moment, as they went total dick mode on him.

[First of My Name]

I thought they nailed it with these two.

[Woel]

Actually, you generally honor your King above your liege lord.

Actually, you have no clue on how the European feudal system worked. It is the exact opposite - your foremost allegiance was to the lord directly "above" you, not to you king or anyone in between. For example, a small noble House sworn to House Tarly (assuming there are any) would have to honor their oaths to the Tarlys if the Tarlys were to rebel against the Tyrells, or the king.