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teemo

[BOOK SPOILERS] Edmure and Blackfish Thread

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No one's calling you crazy and people have even expressed that they agree with you. No need for the facetious tone.

I can see how it is viewed as a laugh-- and maybe it is. To me it also just seemed like exasperation or disbelief. Still out of place, but it's not like he was giggling or chortling.

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No one's calling you crazy and people have even expressed that they agree with you. No need for the facetious tone.

I can see how it is viewed as a laugh-- and maybe it is. To me it also just seemed like exasperation or disbelief. Still out of place, but it's not like he was giggling or chortling.

im not being facetious...i just read several posts about how it wasn't a laugh, and as i'm just starting to read about this topic for the first time, I thought it was quite possible that I'm in the minority here. I've only read one person agree with me so far...no need for you to tell me what my tone is..

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No one's calling you crazy and people have even expressed that they agree with you. No need for the facetious tone.

I can see how it is viewed as a laugh-- and maybe it is. To me it also just seemed like exasperation or disbelief. Still out of place, but it's not like he was giggling or chortling.

I can appreciate differing interpretations of something subjective, but considering there's video and photo proof of him laughing, I don't understand how this can even be debated. Cat looks like she wants to kill him.

It is very much the wrong thing to do, even if you'd like to call it exasperation. It's a minor gripe but sometimes the small, subtle things are what really distinguish a character and result in successful portrayals.

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No one's calling you crazy and people have even expressed that they agree with you. No need for the facetious tone.

I can see how it is viewed as a laugh-- and maybe it is. To me it also just seemed like exasperation or disbelief. Still out of place, but it's not like he was giggling or chortling.

While it might be out of place for some, he is their king and he wasn't happy. He bit his lip in order to keep from saying something because he was angry. I've slo-moed and the others here in the house agree that he was angry, not giggling like a kid. Maybe you have to be well versed in sarcasm and irony in order to recognize it in someone else.

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It's just a debate about semantics really, and those are kind of tiring. Most think he was laughing, some of us think it was less severe. It doesn't matter a whole lot at this point.

At the end of the day, it was inappropriate for Robb to react out loud in any case. The degree to which we find it offensive/stupid/uncalled for can vary.

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It's a laugh. It is, however, a frustrated, head-shaking, huffed out laugh, rather than a snickered "Teehee!"

Either way, he's publicly disrespecting his uncle and bannerman at what's quite possibly his first official act as the brand new lord of the Riverlands. His mother is also standing right next to him, and she shouldn't have to put up with seeing her brother treated like that at their father's funeral.

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I think this laugh is being blown out of proportion. Have you ever been to a funeral? I have been to many and sometimes you laugh it isn't that unusual. Death doesn't have to be one big dark thing. I think the laugh is from Robb's frustration with Edmure for throwing back the Mountain against his order and Edmure being unable to hit the shot just made Robb smirk thinking "You douchebag" no big deal.

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I've been to several funerals. And yes, there was laughter. However, none of it was aimed at the child of the deceased for fumbling with an official function. I can guarantee that if I'd made a speech at my father's funeral and stumbled over the words, and somebody had laughed at me for it - nobody would've thought that was acceptable behavior.

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Edmure being treated like joe jerkoff came as bit of a surprise, since I've only read up to Clash of Kings so far, where he seems quite capable in managing the affairs at Riverrun. Maybe his failures only become apparent in the third novel? In which case they had to hurry things along.

Both actors were well-cast though and I look forward to seeing more of them. Show's starting to feel like a Rome reunion at this point though, lol.

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As I wrote in another thread:

I think that what many are forgetting as far as Edmure and Brynden are concerned, is that the show has only three-four minutes to establish their main carachter features. They had to establish the Blackfish as a strong leader who is also a caring uncle, and Edmure as an incompetent, yet honest and loyal man. How to do that?

First, fine, Edmure had to miss the first three arrow shots. And when he does, we all see that every missed shot wounds him inside a little bit more than the previous. Then, the Blackfish shoves him (and Edmure does not manage to hide his being humiliated) and takes care of the matter, thus showing his authority and ability. Yes, he didn't shove Edmure in the book, but at that point of aSoS, we all knew who they were and what they were capable of doing. In the show we don't.

Then, the second scene; at first Edmure comes out as arrogant, and Brynden, following his previous actions, shows his leadership and competence in war/political matters. Then Robb gets angry with Edmure, as the latter understands his mistakes and says maybe the most sincere "sorry" on the show (and we don't see many people apologizing, in GoT). Therefore yes, he may be arrogant and incompetent sometimes, but he is basically naive, and most importantly, loyal.

And last, the scene with Cat manages to show how caring, comforting yet strong the Blackfish is.

So, the two have been pefectly portrayed, their most important and complex features clearly defined in JUST THREE MINUTES. If this is not outstanding character development, then I don't know what is.

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The show seems to be doing a good job with things that have the word black in them. Blackwater was sick and I really like the Blackfish. So we can assume that Black Walder in the RW will be good as well.

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I like the casting, but it bothers me that Edmure is depicted like a stupid douche. Hated that.

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People are forgetting that Book Cat could tell that Endmure was either still drunk or hung over from the previous night. I listened to the that chapter in the last 2 days and she realizes that Emdure is as "tight" as his bow string. And the book BF doesn't shove him and even reminds him of the wind after the second failed shot but I don't see Edmure acting drunk either. Also BF doesn't tell Edmure that Hoster missed, Cat and BF talk about it after the incident.

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Edmure being treated like joe jerkoff came as bit of a surprise, since I've only read up to Clash of Kings so far, where he seems quite capable in managing the affairs at Riverrun. Maybe his failures only become apparent in the third novel? In which case they had to hurry things along.

Both actors were well-cast though and I look forward to seeing more of them. Show's starting to feel like a Rome reunion at this point though, lol.

Especially if they cast Ian McNeice as Wyman Manderly.

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I do agree with the comments someone made about why are the Riverlands subservient to the North?

I couldnt imagine Hoster Tully be subservient to Ned Stark

Surley Edmure and Robb should be equal like NATO allies?

They aren't 'subservient' to the North, but they are subservient to Robb as their King in the books.

Every cry of 'King in the North!" by a Northman was met with a "King of the Trident!" by a Riverlander.

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People are forgetting that Book Cat could tell that Endmure was either still drunk or hung over from the previous night. I listened to the that chapter in the last 2 days and she realizes that Emdure is as "tight" as his bow string. And the book BF doesn't shove him and even reminds him of the wind after the second failed shot but I don't see Edmure acting drunk either. Also BF doesn't tell Edmure that Hoster missed, Cat and BF talk about it after the incident.

I've never heard of tight meaning drunk or hung over. I thought she meant tight, like he's stiff from pressure/grief/etc.

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As I wrote in another thread:

I think that what many are forgetting as far as Edmure and Brynden are concerned, is that the show has only three-four minutes to establish their main carachter features. They had to establish the Blackfish as a strong leader who is also a caring uncle, and Edmure as an incompetent, yet honest and loyal man. How to do that?

I agree on the point that there is a need to quickly and firmly establish the major traits of new characters. I watch the show with a good friend who has not read the books and I die a bit inside every time he says "Oh great!! Just what this show needed...more characters..." As sad as this makes me, it has taught me that most viewers need the characters to "pop" so they are easier to remember and keep straight. Unfortunately, I believe that this type of "character shorthand" often leads to one note caricatures of the characters detailed in the novels.

That being said, I acknowledge that I have likely become too close to the source material to opine in any objective fashion about what is or is not an acceptable deviation from the characters as written. I have read the books so many times now that I have subconsciously filled in any vacant spaces in the development of the characters with my interpretations and extrapolations. Thus, I can only say that Rob's "snicker" is out of character for "my" Rob...rudely shoving a grieving Edmure to take the shot is not an action that "my" Blackfish would have taken. All I can say objectively in support of my opinion is that these actions did not happen in the text and thus were out of character. What I cannot say is that those actions are out of character for another persons' vision of these characters.

Even with the necessity of "character short-handing" in the television medium, I still find it hard to justify converting an action that shows compassion into an action that shows contempt and disdain. After two scenes my friends likely shorthand on The Blackfish and Edmure:

The Blackfish

1. L33t bow skillz

2. A short-tempered dick

3. Hates / has no respect for Edmure

4. Likes Cat

Edmure

1. Crappy shot

2. Arrogant

3. Incompetent

If this matches an individual book-reader's shorthand then they probably loved these scenes...if not than the reaction was likely less positive. On the whole I am more torn about this than I appear. As usual the scenes were exceptionally well acted and fun to watch...I enjoyed them. The purest in me hates the shorthand, but can accept it as long as the character is not placed into a box diametrically opposed to the characters as I interpret them...which in this case I believe they were. I suppose this is just a long-winded way of me figuring out that TV viewer me is good with the scenes, while book-reader me is not. Heh...with my concerns about the show writers interpretations of Littlefinger, Stannis, Arya, Brienne and their story arcs, I guess I am not gonna draw the line at Edmure and Brynden Tully. :)

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As long as they give Edmure some redeeming qualities down the line, then I'm alright with his introduction treating him like a total nitwit.

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