Vulture interview hints at "controversial" Sansa chapter in TWoW

[juanml82]

That's interesting, and I could perfectly see such a thing happening. Myranda should probably suspect Alayne is Sansa, and might end up figuring it out completely. And if she is seducing LF, Sansa might decide she can't confide her suspicions with LF and has to take, at last, action on her own.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Hi, new to the forum. I will warn you I am bit of supporter of underrated and fandom abused characters (so I have a Sansa prejudice).This is quite a lengthy topic, and I see quiet a few replies, but all seem to be within the same vein. A) the rape of Sansa; B) the death of sweet robin. If I have missed any other lines of thought, please forgive me, I started to skim past page 13. I woud like to think that GRRM is very good at surprising us and that we should be very careful to go with our first conclusion. So while both are very tempting and well hinted at in the text, I feel that we are going to get something a little more interesting. I think Sansa will kill someone, but not Sweet Robin, I think she will kill Myranda Royce. Myranda is an intelligent girl, and I have a feeling she may be the first to put two and two together. I can see her trying to use this information to manipulate Alayne/Sansa underestimating all the girl has been through. I also have a feeling that Myranda maybe trying to tie herself to Littlefinger, as he is the most powerful man in the Vale. Sansa having enough of being manipulated and played with (didn't Margarey do the same thing) and genuinely scared of having someone else deciding her future invites her over for lemoncakes and tea and Myranda has a little accident. Little finger thinks she does it for him, and Sansa has blood on her hands and cemented a new darker pah for her character. If anyone else has come up with this theory, my apologies. I did not see it on the forum.

Welcome to the forum. Thsi theory has not been done by anyone else, I believe you are the first to even mention Myranda. I personally don't think Myranda will play much in the story, but props for originality. However, if someone does figure it out, I believe it will either be Ser Shadrich, or Mya Stone. The first would try to kidnap her, the second would likely help her. I have my own little theory on this, but that's a long story. Certainly a good first post.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Welcome to the forum. Thsi theory has not been done by anyone else, I believe you are the first to even mention Myranda. I personally don't think Myranda will play much in the story, but props for originality. However, if someone does figure it out, I believe it will either be Ser Shadrich, or Mya Stone. The first would try to kidnap her, the second would likely help her. I have my own little theory on this, but that's a long story. Certainly a good first post.

Would he? I don't understand the logic of those who say Shadrich might decide to try and return Sansa to KL. The man who offered the reward for Sansa (Varys) has gone into hiding, the lady who was preoccupied with Sansa and Tyrion (Cersei) has been removed from power. Shadrich has no access to a ship; if he did, he would have to traverse the increasingly dangerous (for several reasons) Narrow Sea. If he tries to take Sansa over land, he has to risk the Brotherhood, other bandits who may want to steal his glory and Sansa' likely unwillingness to travel with him. The Gates of the Moon are closed, Shadrich has a steady income via the Great One for the time being.

For Shadrich to attempt to kidnap Sansa would be utter stupidity.

[juanml82]

Would he? I don't understand the logic of those who say Shadrich might decide to try and return Sansa to KL. The man who offered the reward for Sansa (Varys) has gone into hiding, the lady who was preoccupied with Sansa and Tyrion (Cersei) has been removed from power. Shadrich has no access to a ship; if he did, he would have to traverse the increasingly dangerous (for several reasons) Narrow Sea. If he tries to take Sansa over land, he has to risk the Brotherhood, other bandits who may want to steal his glory and Sansa' likely unwillingness to travel with him. The Gates of the Moon are closed, Shadrich has a steady income via the Great One for the time being.

For Shadrich to attempt to kidnap Sansa would be utter stupidity.

Hey, since when is stupidity an obstacle for the average Westerosi? :P

Welcome to the forum. Thsi theory has not been done by anyone else, I believe you are the first to even mention Myranda. I personally don't think Myranda will play much in the story, but props for originality. However, if someone does figure it out, I believe it will either be Ser Shadrich, or Mya Stone. The first would try to kidnap her, the second would likely help her. I have my own little theory on this, but that's a long story. Certainly a good first post.

But how would Mya realize it?

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Hey, since when is stupidity an obstacle for the average Westerosi? :P

But how would Mya realize it?

The same way Myranda would. Sansa made a point of the hair dye running out, so she must be increasingly conservative of it. I can see Sansa and Mya being close, maybe even Mya would become a handmaid of Sansa. It wouldn't be too difficult.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Would he? I don't understand the logic of those who say Shadrich might decide to try and return Sansa to KL. The man who offered the reward for Sansa (Varys) has gone into hiding, the lady who was preoccupied with Sansa and Tyrion (Cersei) has been removed from power. Shadrich has no access to a ship; if he did, he would have to traverse the increasingly dangerous (for several reasons) Narrow Sea. If he tries to take Sansa over land, he has to risk the Brotherhood, other bandits who may want to steal his glory and Sansa' likely unwillingness to travel with him. The Gates of the Moon are closed, Shadrich has a steady income via the Great One for the time being.

For Shadrich to attempt to kidnap Sansa would be utter stupidity.

Sansa is still an enemy of the crown, and she is of the highest birth. Shadrich knows how to fight, and even seeks it to a degree. It is a risk, but it is one he would be willing to take.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Sansa is still an enemy of the crown, and she is of the highest birth. Shadrich knows how to fight, and even seeks it to a degree. It is a risk, but it is one he would be willing to take.

Evidence please (for both plausibility and motive).

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Evidence please (for both plausibility and motive).

Sansa is the believed killer of Joffrey, so many believe her to be in cahoots with Tyrion. Brienne meets Ser Shadrich in A Feast for Crows. He states that he actively searches for fighting, and revels in combat. He also states that he is not a greedy man, looking only to ransom his taken armor and horse. He said he would split the money with Brienne if she helped him. He could enlist more people to help him. The clansmen might help him, unless the name Tyrion is mentioned. If he does kidnap Sansa, he is going to fail, but he wouldn't know that.

[Persicaria]

Welcome to the forum. Thsi theory has not been done by anyone else, I believe you are the first to even mention Myranda. I personally don't think Myranda will play much in the story, but props for originality. However, if someone does figure it out, I believe it will either be Ser Shadrich, or Mya Stone. The first would try to kidnap her, the second would likely help her. I have my own little theory on this, but that's a long story. Certainly a good first post.

I know my idea is a bit of stretch, but I think that Sansa is due for some deep and twisted character development. I feel like we can expect something dark coming from Sansa's end, but I think she needs to feel forced to do it. A moral gray area if you will. Every other character has had to deal with an uncomfortable area of gray and while we see hints of it Sansa's narrative, she has yet to act on it. I want to reject the kidnapping idea because it doesn't really show much growth on Sansa's part. I think what frustrates people about Sansa/Sansa's narrative is how passive she is in it . Life happens to her, and she is stuck dealing with it. Something that was very typical of women of the time. I think what fans hope to see is an active Sansa. The only why she could be active in that scenario is if she poisons Ser Shadrick and seduces Timmett son of Timmett and wins control of the mountan clans (extremely unlikely). It also wouldn't be controversial as it would be a continuation of the themes already established with Sansa.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

I know my idea is a bit of stretch, but I think that Sansa is due for some deep and twisted character development. I feel like we can expect something dark coming from Sansa's end, but I think she needs to feel forced to do it. A moral gray area if you will. Every other character has had to deal with an uncomfortable area of gray and while we see hints of it Sansa's narrative, she has yet to act on it. I want to reject the kidnapping idea because it doesn't really show much growth on Sansa's part. I think what frustrates people about Sansa/Sansa's narrative is how passive she is in it . Life happens to her, and she is stuck dealing with it. Something that was very typical of women of the time. I think what fans hope to see is an active Sansa. The only why she could be active in that scenario is if she poisons Ser Shadrick and seduces Timmett son of Timmett and wins control of the mountan clans (extremely unlikely). It also wouldn't be controversial as it would be a continuation of the themes already established with Sansa.

My idea that was controversial was to do with Lyn Corbray. Much has been mentioned of his like for boys, so I suggested a dark turn in which Sansa gives Sweetrobin to Lyn for a night to gain his support. It would be controversial because it shows how Sansa is distanced from family, it is not in her original character to do this, and it would be creepy that Sweetrobin would come crying back to the person who did this to him in the first place. It also might kill him. I certainly would find this to be controversial, even offensive to a certain degree. I do agree with you on why Sansa is hated so much, but I think a more active role for her is limited. She would certainly know how to play the Game of Thrones, but there isn't much she can do. The most I can see is a member on Dany's small council.

[juanml82]

The same way Myranda would. Sansa made a point of the hair dye running out, so she must be increasingly conservative of it. I can see Sansa and Mya being close, maybe even Mya would become a handmaid of Sansa. It wouldn't be too difficult.

I can see Mya becoming a friend of Alayne, but I don't see her becoming a handmaiden - she's needed with the goats. Myranda is described as sharp, has the gossip of the Royce who met Sansa before and might believe she is Sansa but needs some sort of confirmation and probably took notice of Sansa' slip regarding Jon Snow during the descent from the Eyre.

Mya can notice Alayne is dying her hair and hides something, but she doesn't have the information to add two plus two.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

I can see Mya becoming a friend of Alayne, but I don't see her becoming a handmaiden - she's needed with the goats. Myranda is described as sharp, has the gossip of the Royce who met Sansa before and might believe she is Sansa but needs some sort of confirmation and probably took notice of Sansa' slip regarding Jon Snow during the descent from the Eyre.

Mya can notice Alayne is dying her hair and hides something, but she doesn't have the information to add two plus two.

I see both of them becoming Alayne's friends. There is little benefit to Myranda to give away Sansa. The Vale was bursting to fight for Robb. They all would have supported him. The Royces were close to open rebellion by themselves. Also, do not forget that Dany will likely be landing in the Vale.

[juanml82]

Oh yes, and we know that. Sansa also knows that. But wouldn't it be tragic if she decides she still can't trust Myranda and has to get rid of her, just in case she's also planning on betraying her? :eek:

[zmflavius]

Oh yes, and we know that. Sansa also knows that. But wouldn't it be tragic if she decides she still can't trust Myranda and has to get rid of her, just in case she's also planning on betraying her? :eek:

It would certainly be some nice (and extremely delayed) character growth on her part.

[no_payne_no_gain]

I am really looking forward to some serious Sansa development

At the last Alayne chapter, her story is has set roots for 1)her to be discovered, publicly or not (the hair dye is running low, and blurts out 'jon snow' in front of Myranda Royce, who was played up as very shrewd) 2) sweetrobin to die 3) sansa to marry Harry the Heir 4) Sansa to be manipulated by Myranda Royce

Usually, I don't make theories, but I like to lay out all my information in front of me (:

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Oh yes, and we know that. Sansa also knows that. But wouldn't it be tragic if she decides she still can't trust Myranda and has to get rid of her, just in case she's also planning on betraying her? :eek:

Tragic is right up GRRM's alley, but it might not be that way.

[no_payne_no_gain]

Also, do not forget that Dany will likely be landing in the Vale.

Out of curoisity, how do you explain that?

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Out of curoisity, how do you explain that?

Dany must travel west to land at Westeros. The North will have severely heavy storms, and White Harbor is the only feasible port. Dorne will already be claimed by Aegon, so all ports there are out. It would be ill advised to travel all the way around Westeros to the west side onyl to go back east to take King's Landing. She cannot land at King's Landing itself without taking major losses and losing all potential allies. Gulltown is a good port in an untouched area with no war losses and plenty of food with a secure enough region to defend against all enemies in an area already deemed passive by all forces. Also, it is closer to the Wall depending on when Dany wants to go fight that undead horde coming down from the north.

[Persicaria]

My idea that was controversial was to do with Lyn Corbray. Much has been mentioned of his like for boys, so I suggested a dark turn in which Sansa gives Sweetrobin to Lyn for a night to gain his support. It would be controversial because it shows how Sansa is distanced from family, it is not in her original character to do this, and it would be creepy that Sweetrobin would come crying back to the person who did this to him in the first place. It also might kill him. I certainly would find this to be controversial, even offensive to a certain degree. I do agree with you on why Sansa is hated so much, but I think a more active role for her is limited. She would certainly know how to play the Game of Thrones, but there isn't much she can do. The most I can see is a member on Dany's small council.

I cringed when I read this. I suppose it is a plausibility, but I feel they already have him in their pocket so to speak. His dissent serves a purpose to them. That of course be me trying to rationalize away a very ugly possibility. I still think Sansa needs a bit more character blackening (a few prerequisite evil deeds) before she knowingly does something so dark.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

I cringed when I read this. I suppose it is a plausibility, but I feel they already have him in their pocket so to speak. His dissent serves a purpose to them. That of course be me trying to rationalize away a very ugly possibility. I still think Sansa needs a bit more character blackening (a few prerequisite evil deeds) before she knowingly does something so dark.

All theories seem to go to Sansa willingly giving herself to Littlefinger, getting raped by Littlefinger (but this is not controversial on HER part), or killing Sweetrobin. Sweetrobin is the only way to keep the Arryns alive, Harry just screams egotistical douche burning alive to me. So I believe that theory is out. Sansa willingly giving in to Littlerfinger's advances might be controversial, but from her earlier chapters, it doesn't seem like she would. I wouldn't like reading this, but it is my best idea.