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total1402

Are they glossing over Daenerys story? (book spoilers)

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The night fight scene is taking place in a city. This is more likely Astapor than it is to be Yunkai because Dany could only arrive at Yunkai in the final episode and she doesn't occupy Yunkai. Besides. I was refering to the big field battle she has with the Yunkish army.

All the scenes you mention about meeting the slavers n mercenaries, watching the army, as I noted above, this is only a single (maybe 2 my memory is haisy) chapter in ASOS part 2. Its not a weighty part of the text and it really isn't much material. Dedicating most of Danys story towards what is largely in the books a build up chapter to Mereen feels very off. A lot of people have said this is about moving Danys story forward faster. But, if that were the case, then why spend five episodes on a single chapter when you could just condense that with the siege of Mereen itself. Thats really not speeding her plot forward. I would have said that that material would have required at most two episodes and probably could just be done in a final one. She meets the diplomats, Daario pedges himself, the battle is won off-screen. Its a very simple set of events and dragging that out across six episodes is just going to be really gauling since you'll be waiting for the battle to happen for ages and then you don't even get shown it. That could be a very bad thing.

I really don´t understand this obsession with chapters. Dany´s story has to hit certain plot points:

a) get the Unsullied and Missandei

B) meet Barristan

c) defeat the Yunkai (knowing the city wasn´t cut) and free their slaves

d) meet Dario and become infatuated by him

e) refuse Jorah´s advances

g) discover Jorah´s treason and send him and Barristan on the suicide mission

f) defeat Meereen

h) banish Jorah

This is the gist of her story in ASOS. It´s completely up to D&D how they chose to tell that story and what parts from which chapters they select to tell first. As we already sort of had the Jorah/Dany moment in season 2 and she made clear she is not interested it makes perfect sense to not deepen that conflict until Dario is introduced and Dany slips further from Jorah´s hands. Right now he still has hope. It will be interesting to see his reaction when Dany starts truly move on but not with him. If my theory is right and we will spend large part of season 4 beseaging Meereen, there will be tons of time to play Jorah/Dany/Dario triangle before he is banished (which I really don´t expect to happen until E7 or E8 of S4).

Similarily, Barristan. There is no reason to push all the infodumps onto his character now, when he was just reintroduced, when we (and the writers) know he will be with Dany for atleast another two seasons and nothing of what he says really matters until Dany finally starts paying attention to IT and the war in Westeros again. We are at the point in the story where Barristan is basically a stranger to Dany. She seems to trust him and values his councel but they don´t have any kind of personal relationship. That needs time.

As for the battles, even in the book the difficulty grows. She uses her beginners luck in Astapor, blodies her new army in Yunkai and then fnally meets somewhat worthy oponent in Meereen. I suppose the same will happen in the show.

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I really don´t understand this obsession with chapters. Dany´s story has to hit certain plot points:

a) get the Unsullied and Missandei

B) meet Barristan

c) defeat the Yunkai (knowing the city wasn´t cut) and free their slaves

d) meet Dario and become infatuated by him

e) refuse Jorah´s advances

g) discover Jorah´s treason and send him and Barristan on the suicide mission

f) defeat Meereen

h) banish Jorah

This is the gist of her story in ASOS. It´s completely up to D&D how they chose to tell that story and what parts from which chapters they select to tell first. As we already sort of had the Jorah/Dany moment in season 2 and she made clear she is not interested it makes perfect sense to not deepen that conflict until Dario is introduced and Dany slips further from Jorah´s hands. Right now he still has hope. It will be interesting to see his reaction when Dany starts truly move on but not with him. If my theory is right and we will spend large part of season 4 beseaging Meereen, there will be tons of time to play Jorah/Dany/Dario triangle before he is banished (which I really don´t expect to happen until E7 or E8 of S4).

Similarily, Barristan. There is no reason to push all the infodumps onto his character now, when he was just reintroduced, when we (and the writers) know he will be with Dany for atleast another two seasons and nothing of what he says really matters until Dany finally starts paying attention to IT and the war in Westeros again. We are at the point in the story where Barristan is basically a stranger to Dany. She seems to trust him and values his councel but they don´t have any kind of personal relationship. That needs time.

As for the battles, even in the book the difficulty grows. She uses her beginners luck in Astapor, blodies her new army in Yunkai and then fnally meets somewhat worthy oponent in Meereen. I suppose the same will happen in the show.

It would be character assasination if Jorah tried to kiss Dany after she meets Daario and gets the hots for him. It would basiclly mean hes upping the ante because hes jealous. Jorah was very much jealous of Daario when they do meet him but that wasn't why he decided to come out with his feelings long before then. Thats a shift in context which would cast the character in a very negative light.

The scene in Qaarth was used to show Dany realising that Jorah fancies her. This replaces a very different scene in the books where Jorah talks about his ex-wife and when Dany asks what she looks like he says she looked like Dany. Which is slightly creepy and Dany even shivers. The Qaarth scene casts Jorah in a much more favorable light than in the books. So, we haven't yet had the scene where Jorah openly and literally proposes to Daenerys in ASOS.

The show has foreshadowed a lot of things. Tyrion mentioned the Iron Bank of Braavos for instance in episode 3, whilst in the previous series we had the Dornish talked about. How Dany feels about her enemies is an important facet of her character. Not to mention that Barristans main role (aside from secret identity subplot) is to be the angel on Danys shoulder trying to keep her acting like Rhaegar and he makes a point of trying to tell her "Starks are good". On a related point there is also the tension between this desire and Dany not wanting to learn the truth about her family. Given that Jamie/Briene will almost certainly be discussing him stabbing Danys dad in the back because he was a monster. So going with a different tac here would be odd. In other words, the info dumps sort of are Barristans main point .

Actually the battles were pretty much only going to go one way. Part 2 of ASOS is mainly about the Jorah/Barristan/Jorah plot and Dany discovering just what war entails and this causing her to regress and rule Mereen because she feels responsible. She sees that even when she wins there is brutal bloodshed. This makes her want peace and to not be a destroyer. But theres little actual suspense or tension in the fighting itself. You expect Dany to beat the Yunkish, you expect her to resolve the siege of Mereen and we only need to dwell on how. The true surprise is Danys decision to stay in Mereen and rule; rather than go to Westeros as she had seemed to be meteoriclly on her way towards. So the battles don't actually become harder at this point; thats ADWD. The slavers try different tactics and each time they're pretty thoroughly swept aside with negligible losses to Danys army.

edit- Barristan cannot be sent to the suicide mission since he never concealed his identity from Dany. The only possible reason would be if she considers not immediately telling her about Jorah to be treason; which is a bit of a stretch.

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Yeah we can hope. If she listens. But problem is Tyrion doesn't know Ned defended her from Robert's murder idea. Dany will be ignorant for a long time yet.

Well she should like the Lannisters even less, she might believe him, after all she saved him and Penny in the pit sequence.

I don't know what will happen if they do meet, seems, I think?, seems to be George's intent.

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The night fight scene is taking place in a city. This is more likely Astapor than it is to be Yunkai because Dany could only arrive at Yunkai in the final episode and she doesn't occupy Yunkai. Besides. I was refering to the big field battle she has with the Yunkish army.

Except the Sack of Astapor takes play during the day (on the show). So those night scenes of Dany's knights fighting in the trailer are, in fact, depicting the battle in Yunkai.

All the scenes you mention about meeting the slavers n mercenaries, watching the army, as I noted above, this is only a single (maybe 2 my memory is haisy) chapter in ASOS part 2. Its not a weighty part of the text and it really isn't much material. Dedicating most of Danys story towards what is largely in the books a build up chapter to Mereen feels very off.

Who says they won't flesh it out more? Who says they'll devote much screentime to her in episodes 6-9?

A lot of people have said this is about moving Danys story forward faster. But, if that were the case, then why spend five episodes on a single chapter when you could just condense that with the siege of Mereen itself. Thats really not speeding her plot forward. I would have said that that material would have required at most two episodes and probably could just be done in a final one. She meets the diplomats, Daario pedges himself, the battle is won off-screen. Its a very simple set of events and dragging that out across six episodes is just going to be really gauling since you'll be waiting for the battle to happen for ages and then you don't even get shown it. That could be a very bad thing.

Actually, the pacing seems fine. I don't think people would appreciate condensing Yunkai into 1 episode considering it'd take a sizable amount of time to show everything when Dany's story is competing with 6-9 others.

And I don't believe it will drag on. This is the sequence of events I expect:

episode 5: Dany marches towards Yunkai.

episode 6: -

episode 7: Meets the slavers.

episode 8: Meets the sellswords.

episode 9: -

episode 10: Battle of Yunkai.

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And I don't believe it will drag on. This is the sequence of events I expect:

episode 5: Dany marches towards Yunkai.

episode 6: -

episode 7: Meets the slavers.

episode 8: Meets the sellswords.

episode 9: -

episode 10: Battle of Yunkai.

Unless the Red Wedding encompasses an entire episode, I highly doubt they would cut Dany from another episode. The reason being is that by putting Drogon on the front cover of this season they have pretty clearly said that he rise is one of the main events and features of this season. As the defence of the wall will probably be in season 4 I'd imagine. Having her out of a third of the episodes would be defeating the object of that.

No the pacing is very off. One chapter of ASOS is going to have to be really dragged out. We don't even need the Titans Bastard because hes just there to set up the Barristan reveal. Theres also little reason to have Dany meet them seperately and why would they be in different episodes? She meets them basiclly in sequence over a few hours before the battle. If anything its likely they'll combine the Second Sons and Stormcrows with us seeing Daario kill the Titans Bastard in the Yunkish camp; before he plops this in Danys lap.

There is not going to be a battle. It would have been in the advertising if there was.

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No the pacing is very off. One chapter of ASOS is going to have to be really dragged out.

What is this obsession of yours regarding chapter counts? Just let go of it already. Some chapters cover a lot of plot points, others do not. Some chapters cover months, some cover hours.

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Still, I dislike how they've handled this and it largely seems like a knee jerk reaction to Danys arc in season 2. Condensing all of ASOS part 1 into 3 episodes is a big deal. I am not saying the episodes are bad by any measure. But I feel they don't do justice to the novel by glossing over things just to get Dany fighting as early as possible in the series.

Then stop watching the show, nothing can be perfect.

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What is this obsession of yours regarding chapter counts? Just let go of it already. Some chapters cover a lot of plot points, others do not. Some chapters cover months, some cover hours.

This one covers two days at most. Six episodes spent waiting for a battle to happen. I really don't get why the idea of that strikes you as good.

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This one covers two days at most. Six episodes spent waiting for a battle to happen. I really don't get why the idea of that strikes you as good.

You can summ an entire battle in a few lines, or you can show every detail and describe every conflict and end with a series of books. Still about the same battle. Dany´s story in Meereen is limited by her POV and the fact she isn´t a warrior so she just waits for the result. The show can choose a completely different approach. The KL story in S4 will very likely cover only few weeks as well (from PW in S4E2 or 3 to Tywin´ murder/Tyrion´s escape in S4E8 or 9), so timing of other stories will have to correspond with that.

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You still think the scenes of Jorah fighting in the trailer are from Astapor?

That my guess too.

Now I don't know what those areal shots are of the massed Unsullied marching in Roman style block formations across a desert landscape.

If that's the Yunkai battle maybe it's still in VFX post processing , or they are saving that footage.

Maybe they are making the Yunkai battle in the daytime.

I notice some of that 'pirated' footage of Dany on (an new?) Silver slowly between troops has not shown up at all.

There is a scene of her riding quickly , in the lead, in some preview footage(its just a snippet), between troops again, but I don't know where and when again? At Yunkai.

I am still guessing Meereen is season 4 ... since I think most money will be spent on the battle for the wall ... the battle of Meereen will be off stage.

In the both Yunkai and Meereen , the main battles that is, are only told in summary by GRRM.

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The trailer daylight effects shots of the unsullied marching (in block formation) are of them leaving Astapor. Presumably those shots are from the 4th, 5th, or 6th episode this season - depending on if Dany leaves Astapor immediately after 'dracarys' or not.

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Maybe some of Dany's time is going to be spent on that thing, what's it called again... character development?

The march to Yunkai, for example, can easily be fleshed out with her questioning Barristan about Westeros and her family. Imagine her reaction to hearing a few things about her father, intercut with Jaime telling Brienne about life as Aerys' Kingsguard? Or there could be talk about how the Rebellion started, maybe some more Rhaegar mentions... There's so much Dany doesn't have a clue about, so this could be a good way to bring the audience up to speed about past events in a way that feels natural.

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Maybe some of Dany's time is going to be spent on that thing, what's it called again... character development?

The march to Yunkai, for example, can easily be fleshed out with her questioning Barristan about Westeros and her family. Imagine her reaction to hearing a few things about her father, intercut with Jaime telling Brienne about life as Aerys' Kingsguard? Or there could be talk about how the Rebellion started, maybe some more Rhaegar mentions... There's so much Dany doesn't have a clue about, so this could be a good way to bring the audience up to speed about past events in a way that feels natural.

In the book there is longish pow wow with the sellswords, and the 'acquisition' Daario and the Stormcrows.

As I remember in the book when they plan out the battle for Yunkai the Dothraki take the center charge the Unsullied the flanks and the Stormcrows the rear.

Just how many Dothraki warriors where there? George seems in imply Danny had at most 100 and 50% of those women.

Also I don't think, we shall see, the 10's of thousands of Astapori camp followers.

On the road the Unsullied travel in battle formation?

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This one covers two days at most. Six episodes spent waiting for a battle to happen. I really don't get why the idea of that strikes you as good.

The fourth chapter you're referring to covers a LOT of time - it covers her departure from Astapor, her travelling to Yunkai, her meeting with Yunkish, her meeting with the sellswords, the battle, and then there's a 3 day gap between the battle and Dany marching through the city.

And yes, we ARE seeing the battle. In the trailers we've seen Jorah, Grey Worm and Daario fighting in the dark. Considering that Dany sacks Astapor in daylight and we don't meet Daario until episode 8, it seems obvious that the battle takes place at Yunkai.

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