Kingdoms of the Ifeqevron

[Mrs.Grumpy]

It turned out to be the Kingdoms of Wood Walkers. So those who claimed it was forest walkers were right. Vaes Leisi has haunted caves and carved trees.

[Ser Lepus]

It turned out to be the Kingdoms of Wood Walkers. So those who claimed it was forest walkers were right. Vaes Leisi has haunted caves and carved trees.

Source, please? Where does that information comes from? That screams CotF to me.

EDIT: SO THAT IS WHERE BRAN THE SHIPWRIGHT'S FLEET TOOK LAND!!!!!

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Source, please? Where does that information comes from? That screams CotF to me.

EDIT: SO THAT IS WHERE BRAN THE SAILOR'S FLEET TOOK LAND!!!!!

It's from woiaf app.

[Veltigar]

Source, please? Where does that information comes from? That screams CotF to me.

EDIT: SO THAT IS WHERE BRAN THE SHIPWRIGHT'S FLEET TOOK LAND!!!!!

Has that been confirmed? Are the ifeqevron truly descendants of Brandon's fleet?

[Ser Lepus]

Has that been confirmed? Are the ifeqevron truly descendants of Brandon's fleet?

I dunno, but everything adds. Brandon's fleet sailed west and never came back, and we have that country, on the other side of the Sunset Sea, whose inhabitants carved faces on threes...if it wasn't Brandon's people who settled there, it probably was another First Men group.

[Veltigar]

I dunno, but everything adds. Brandon's fleet sailed west and never come back, and we have that country, on the other side of the Sunset Sea, whose inhabitants carved faces on threes...if it wasn't Brandon's people who settled there, it probably was another First Men group.

Oh, I see. I hoped the app would have confirmed it, because this is one of my personal pet theories :D

[Free Northman Reborn]

There is zero evidence that is has anything to do with Brandon's fleet whatsoever. It is quite suggestive that it was some remnant enclave of Children of the Forest, though.

First Men aren't wood walkers. They gave the woods to the Children, and took the open country for themselves, back when the Pact was sealed.

As I've pointed out before. The Ifequevron lived right across from the Island of Ibben. In fact, an Ibbenese colony was located right next to it on the Essosi mainland. The Ibbenese are well known in Westeros, and frequently visit White Harbor. If Brandon's fleet landed there, they would have been in contact with the North via Ibben in very short order.

The Ifequevron are not the survivors of Brandon's fleet. Basic logic tells us that much.

[Werthead]

Brandon's fleet sailed west and never came back, and we have that country, on the other side of the Sunset Sea, whose inhabitants carved faces on threes...if it wasn't Brandon's people who settled there, it probably was another First Men group.

Brandon's fleet sailed west, across the Sunset Sea. The Kingdoms of the Ifequevron are located to the east, on the Shivering Sea on the north coast of Essos, more or less due north of Vaes Dothrak. Completely the wrong direction :)

[Ser Lepus]

Brandon's fleet sailed west, across the Sunset Sea. The Kingdoms of the Ifequevron are located to the east, on the Shivering Sea on the north coast of Essos, more or less due north of Vaes Dothrak. Completely the wrong direction :)

The world is round, and Essos is really big, longer than Eurasia. The idea is that Brandon was an anti-Columbus of sorts. He wanted to discover a new world, but he accidentally landed on the eastern continent (just the opposite as Columbus, who wanted to reach Asia and accidentally discovered America).

[AzureOwl]

The world is round, and Essos is really big, longer than Eurasia. The idea is that Brandon was an anti-Columbus of sorts. He wanted to discover a new world, but he accidentally landed on the eastern continent (just the opposite as Columbus, who wanted to reach Asia and accidentally discovered America).

But as it has been pointed out, the Kingdoms of the Ifeqevron are absurdly close to Westeros for a bunch of Northerners to have settled there and nobody noticing.

Forget Westeros, it was right next door to the Kingdom of Sarnor, one of the most important centers of civilization in Essos, which was still vibrant as little as 400 years ago. The forests of the Ifeqevron are no more than a few days ride from Sallosh, a.k.a. the City of Scholars. If the Ifeqevron were related to the Northerners, everyone in the Known World would know about it.

[Ser Lepus]

But as it has been pointed out, the Kingdoms of the Ifeqevron are absurdly close to Westeros for a bunch of Northerners to have settled there and nobody noticing.

Forget Westeros, it was right next door to the Kingdom of Sarnor, one of the most important centers of civilization in Essos, which was still vibrant as little as 400 years ago. The forests of the Ifeqevron are no more than a few days ride from Sallosh, a.k.a. the City of Scholars. If the Ifeqevron were related to the Northerners, everyone in the Known World would know about it.

Well, it is at least 2,500 miles east from Westeros, and the northen coast of Essos seem to have been relatively unknown to the people from the Narrow Sea's shores until recently, since Braavos wasn't discovered by the Valyrians.

Also, do we know when did Brandon the Shipwright live? Maybe Sarnor didn't even exist then. And they may have shipwrecked among hostile natives who refused to establish peaceful contact and whose language they didn't understand, so they didn't have an idea about where in the world they were. Plus not all the fleet needed to survive, a single ship or maybe two might have been enough to found a village and start to expand from there (they may have had women with them, if Brandon had in mind to start a colony when he started his trip, or they may have taken some captives during their voyage).

[AzureOwl]

Well, it is at least 2,500 miles east from Westeros, and the northen coast of Essos seem to have been relatively unknown to the people from the Narrow Sea's shores until recently, since Braavos wasn't discovered by the Valyrians.

You can’t assume that the entire coast of the Shivering Sea was uniformly known or unknown. The Kingdom of Sarnor had at least two cities in the delta of the Sarne and the cities in the Silver Shore were right next door to the bay Bay of Tusk and Vaes Leisi. It stands to reason that they knew that stretch of shore well.

And even if we ignore the Shivering Sea, then the Sarnori cities of Sallosh and Gornath were very close to the forests. Too close not to have been intimately familiar with its inhabitants.

Also, do we know when did Brandon the Shipwright live? Maybe Sarnor didn't even exist then.

The Kingdom of Sarnor is described as ancient, which implies that it was probably as old as Valyria and Ghis.

And Brandon the Shipwright couldn’t have lived too far back in the past. The North hasn’t had any strength at sea since Brandon the Burner destroyed the fleet. If that event had taken place too far back in the past, the ironborn would’ve invaded the western shores of the North and become entrenched there a long time ago.

And they may have shipwrecked among hostile natives who refused to establish peaceful contact and whose language they didn't understand, so they didn't have an idea about where in the world they were. Plus not all the fleet needed to survive, a single ship or maybe two might have been enough to found a village and start to expand from there (they may have had women with them, if Brandon had in mind to start a colony when he started his trip, or they may have taken some captives during their voyage).

To populate and entire region from the crew of a ship or two, Brandon would’ve had to have been stranded there a considerable amount of time in the past. And the farther back you go, the least likely it becomes that the Northerners had ship capable of a trans-oceanic voyage.

The simplest explanation, and most likely the correct one, is that the Wood Walkers described by the Dothraki were Children of the Forest.

[Don Roberto]

Is there any trade between Westeros and Asshai over the Sunset Sea, or are those uncharted waters?

Over the =Sunset= Sea? No. No one has ever crossed the Sunset Sea to learn what lies on the other side.

Taken from an SSM. Most likely Bran the Shipwright sank at sea.

[Werthead]

The world is round, and Essos is really big, longer than Eurasia. The idea is that Brandon was an anti-Columbus of sorts. He wanted to discover a new world, but he accidentally landed on the eastern continent (just the opposite as Columbus, who wanted to reach Asia and accidentally discovered America).

Travelling west around the world to get to the north coast of Essos would be absurdly long, dangerous and implausible. The ASoIaF world's ships aren't even as good as Columbus's, and the distance is much, much vaster since Martinworld is bigger than Earth. In addition, there are those ironborn rumours of another continent being out there. There is also no evidence of an easy way of getting to the Shivering Sea via the Sunset Sea. There could be an equivalent of the Northwest Passage, which would be completely unnavigable in such primitive ships.

Also, I don't recall GRRM ever saying that Essos is bigger than Eurasia. He's said it's the equivalent of a bigger continent with a smaller landmass off the side (like Britain vs. Europe) but that's not quite the same thing. Certainly on Lands the coast of Essos isn't shown to be bigger than Eurasia (on that scale, Asshai would be in India and the Mussovy somewhere around central Siberia).

[Free Northman Reborn]

Brandon the Shipwright likely lived within the last 1000 years, and if I had to pin it down, I'd say around 600-700 years ago or thereabouts.

Firstly, the way Manderly refers to "we" haven't had any strength at sea since Brandon the Burner burned his father's fleet really makes it sound like this event took place after White Harbor was established and the Manderlys were already part of the North. This means within the last 1000 years.

Secondly, if you look at the chronological order in which the ancient lords of Winterfell are mentioned in the crypts, Brandon the Shipwright is not listed too far before Torhenn's time.

And thirdly, it is highly likely that the Ironborn conquest of Bear Island took place only after the North's fleet was burned, leaving their coastline defenseless against Ironborn raids. And this most likely happened in the early part of the Ironborn dynasty that ended in Harren's time. Meaning maybe 300 or so years before Harren the Black's time.

In short, 600-700 years ago for Brandon the Shipwright's reign seems the most likely answer to me.

[AzureOwl]

Brandon the Shipwright likely lived within the last 1000 years, and if I had to pin it down, I'd say around 600-700 years ago or thereabouts.

Firstly, the way Manderly refers to "we" haven't had any strength at sea since Brandon the Burner burned his father's fleet really makes it sound like this event took place after White Harbor was established and the Manderlys were already part of the North. This means within the last 1000 years.

Secondly, if you look at the chronological order in which the ancient lords of Winterfell are mentioned in the crypts, Brandon the Shipwright is not listed too far before Torhenn's time.

And thirdly, it is highly likely that the Ironborn conquest of Bear Island took place only after the North's fleet was burned, leaving their coastline defenseless against Ironborn raids. And this most likely happened in the early part of the Ironborn dynasty that ended in Harren's time. Meaning maybe 300 or so years before Harren the Black's time.

In short, 600-700 years ago for Brandon the Shipwright's reign seems the most likely answer to me.

A point in history at which the Kingdom of Sarnor very much existed, most likely as client state of the Valyrian Freehold. The great libraries of Sallosh probably had more information about the Wood Walkers than you can shake a stick at.

[Ravenkingsamurai]

This is mere speculation-but could Ifeqevron be the original homeland of the First men? That would explain faces being on trees.

[Don Roberto]

This is mere speculation-but could Ifeqevron be the original homeland of the First men? That would explain faces being on trees.

The "faces on trees" thing is originally a trait of the Children of the Forest, to which the First Men only mimicked.

[Kushluk of Skagos]

I dunno, but everything adds. Brandon's fleet sailed west and never came back, and we have that country, on the other side of the Sunset Sea, whose inhabitants carved faces on threes...if it wasn't Brandon's people who settled there, it probably was another First Men group.

That theory is ridiculous. Bran took men, not COTF, also Essos is in the East.

[Kushluk of Skagos]

The "faces on trees" thing is originally a trait of the Children of the Forest, to which the First Men only mimicked.

this.