Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Frey Filet

Kingdoms of the Ifeqevron

Recommended Posts

I find it curious that, being so close to Ib, we never hear anything about it. If there were a strange and exotic species of quasi-humans living in their backyards, the ibbenese would have certainly spread the tale, and upon reaching Westeros, I'm sure someone would have been bound to make the connection to the Children.

Maybe we're overthinking this, and Ifeqevron isn't really special in any way.

I think it used to be special, but like in Westeros, whatever old species lived there in the past has either died out or has dwindled to the point of extinction, just like the Children in Westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't make sense for Brandon the Shipwright's party to sail around most of the world only to stop so close to home.

1) They didn’t know that they were close to home. No one has ever sailed so far West. For all they knew the world went on forever.

2) There are literally loads of reasons why they could have stopped there. Including getting shipwrecked (due to storms, sea monsters or whatever), a plague of some sort (remember the Hightower who burned all the ships in the arbor of Oldtown) or maybe even a mutiny. In case of the mutiny the Kingdom of the Ifeqevron could have been formed either by mutineers who as a punishment were left behind on the forested shore (Just like Ferdinand Magellan did in 1520 with some mutineers) or if the mutiny was successful the mutineers could have chosen to stay in the forest of ifeqevron (like for instance the mutineers of the Bounty). The heavy forestation might have reminded them off some parts of the North.

And besides, the Ifeqevron lands are right next to Ibben. In fact, there's a town or city called New Ibben right on its coast. Ibbenese trade with White Harbor all the time.

3) But do the Ibbenese maintain contact with the Ifeqevron? In that aspect it’s revealing that Ifeqevron is a Dothraki word and not an Ibbenese one. You can’t say that the Dothraki are culturally very influential, so it seems to be pretty rare that a word from the Dothraki vocabulary is used by the other natives of Essos (especially if the term isn’t related to weaponry).

4) The Ibbenese are a bread of hardened, crude whalers, who keep to themselves. Hardly the type of men to be interested in other cultures. If they come into a port than they’re only interested in whores, booze and gambling not old tales about Kings of old.

[besides the people of White Harbor would probably tell other stories (about their city, which wasn’t even founded back then)].

5) You have to take the timeline into account. If the Ifeqevron are truly survivors of Brandon’s fleet than they would speak the Old Tongue and they could adhere to many customs which have since then been abandoned in the North (e.g. human sacrifice, the First Night, …). For all we know the survivors of the fleet could also have interbred with the locals, which might have resulted in a more Dothraki like appearance and they might even have taken over the local culture.

What I’m trying to say is that Northern and Ifeqevron culture and appearance could differ greatly, to a point that even if the Ibbenese maintain contact with the Ifeqevron, they might not be able to connect the dots.

[Also do we even know how long the Ibbenese inhabit their lands? IIRC Tyrion in ADWD tells us that the Andals took Andalos from a race of hairy people. For all we know it were those hairy people that, driven from their lands by the Andals, sought refuge in Ibben (like the Andals and the Rhoynar would seek refuge in Westeros). If that is the case than the Ifeqevron might have inhabited their woodlands before the Ibbenese ever arrived].

It's therefore a certainty that these guys aren't the remnants of Brandon the Shipwright's party.

Fixed that for you. It’s hardly a certainty. I agree that I could be wrong, but honestly looking at the options that have been presented in this thread so far it’s either this one or a colony of CotF (or something else entirely, but I can’t think of other options that could lead Ran to tease about the Ifeqevron).

Personally, I don’t think that it could be CotF because how on earth would a people that is so connected with the nature of their homeland get there (+ I feel it would lessen the tragedy of tCotF and it would feel a little bit to stereotypically fantasy for my taste).

[Another reason why I like my theory is that it could give a good explanation about how the legend of AA came to be. If a great Northern fleet sailed around the world they could have spread the story of the Last Hero in Essos before eventually stranding in Ifeqevron.]

(By the way to OP: this is a very interesting thread. Maybe you should open one in the general section to get more feedback. This thread deserves more input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) They didn’t know that they were close to home. No one has ever sailed so far West. For all they knew the world went on forever.

2) There are literally loads of reasons why they could have stopped there. Including getting shipwrecked (due to storms, sea monsters or whatever), a plague of some sort (remember the Hightower who burned all the ships in the arbor of Oldtown) or maybe even a mutiny. In case of the mutiny the Kingdom of the Ifeqevron could have been formed either by mutineers who as a punishment were left behind on the forested shore (Just like Ferdinand Magellan did in 1520 with some mutineers) or if the mutiny was successful the mutineers could have chosen to stay in the forest of ifeqevron (like for instance the mutineers of the Bounty). The heavy forestation might have reminded them off some parts of the North.

3) But do the Ibbenese maintain contact with the Ifeqevron? In that aspect it’s revealing that Ifeqevron is a Dothraki word and not an Ibbenese one. You can’t say that the Dothraki are culturally very influential, so it seems to be pretty rare that a word from the Dothraki vocabulary is used by the other natives of Essos (especially if the term isn’t related to weaponry).

4) The Ibbenese are a bread of hardened, crude whalers, who keep to themselves. Hardly the type of men to be interested in other cultures. If they come into a port than they’re only interested in whores, booze and gambling not old tales about Kings of old.

[besides the people of White Harbor would probably tell other stories (about their city, which wasn’t even founded back then)].

5) You have to take the timeline into account. If the Ifeqevron are truly survivors of Brandon’s fleet than they would speak the Old Tongue and they could adhere to many customs which have since then been abandoned in the North (e.g. human sacrifice, the First Night, …). For all we know the survivors of the fleet could also have interbred with the locals, which might have resulted in a more Dothraki like appearance and they might even have taken over the local culture.

What I’m trying to say is that Northern and Ifeqevron culture and appearance could differ greatly, to a point that even if the Ibbenese maintain contact with the Ifeqevron, they might not be able to connect the dots.

[Also do we even know how long the Ibbenese inhabit their lands? IIRC Tyrion in ADWD tells us that the Andals took Andalos from a race of hairy people. For all we know it were those hairy people that, driven from their lands by the Andals, sought refuge in Ibben (like the Andals and the Rhoynar would seek refuge in Westeros). If that is the case than the Ifeqevron might have inhabited their woodlands before the Ibbenese ever arrived].

Fixed that for you. It’s hardly a certainty. I agree that I could be wrong, but honestly looking at the options that have been presented in this thread so far it’s either this one or a colony of CotF (or something else entirely, but I can’t think of other options that could lead Ran to tease about the Ifeqevron).

Personally, I don’t think that it could be CotF because how on earth would a people that is so connected with the nature of their homeland get there (+ I feel it would lessen the tragedy of tCotF and it would feel a little bit to stereotypically fantasy for my taste).

[Another reason why I like my theory is that it could give a good explanation about how the legend of AA came to be. If a great Northern fleet sailed around the world they could have spread the story of the Last Hero in Essos before eventually stranding in Ifeqevron.]

(By the way to OP: this is a very interesting thread. Maybe you should open one in the general section to get more feedback. This thread deserves more input.

Thanks Veltigar. I actually tried to post this thread in the general section but the mod moved it to this section. Whenever Ran drops hints about things in the upcoming books, such as this locale, I always perk up my ears. My feeling is that if he made these comments regarding the meaning of Ifeqevron, it will either figure into or make an appearance in one or both of the next too books (Dany is headed north at this point). After all, Ran IS privy to a lot the upcoming material and I believe he likes to tease us with tidbits of knowledge here and there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever Ran drops hints about things in the upcoming books, such as this locale, I always perk up my ears. My feeling is that if he made these comments regarding the meaning of Ifeqevron, it will either figure into or make an appearance in one or both of the next too books (Dany is headed north at this point). After all, Ran IS privy to a lot the upcoming material and I believe he likes to tease us with tidbits of knowledge here and there.

Oh, that sucks. If a thread isn’t located in the general or tWoW section nobody pays attention (I know I only came to this thread by accidentally clicking on it and once I got here I just chose a couple of topics at random).

Whenever Ran drops hints about things in the upcoming books, such as this locale, I always perk up my ears. My feeling is that if he made these comments regarding the meaning of Ifeqevron, it will either figure into or make an appearance in one or both of the next too books (Dany is headed north at this point). After all, Ran IS privy to a lot the upcoming material and I believe he likes to tease us with tidbits of knowledge here and there.

Hmm, I think Ran is privy to most if not all the info that will be included in the “a world of ice and fire” compendium, but I don’t think he knows anything for certain about tWoW or aDoS. He might have theories of his own based on the info from the compendium, but I doubt that the information contained within the compendium spoils the plot of the novels. Of course I could be wrong about it and maybe Arya (who's currently of to Izembaro whoever/whatever that is) or Dany (or someone else) do indeed wind up there, but I doubt it. But even if it doesn’t have any real plot relevance it’s still nice to know about the legends of old, to me that’s one of the things that makes GRRM world such a vibrant, vivid place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it used to be special, but like in Westeros, whatever old species lived there in the past has either died out or has dwindled to the point of extinction, just like the Children in Westeros.

Can't be that far back in the past, since the dothraki have been around for only a few hundred years. Still, even if they did exist there in the beginning and no longer do, it should be relatively well-known even to this day. Yet no one, when talking about the Children, mentions that there used to be a few of them in Essos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't be that far back in the past, since the dothraki have been around for only a few hundred years. Still, even if they did exist there in the beginning and no longer do, it should be relatively well-known even to this day. Yet no one, when talking about the Children, mentions that there used to be a few of them in Essos.

Why would they know anything about the COTF in Essos? If the only people who ever came in contact with them where the Dothraki, they would give the Children a different name, a different description as anecdotal accounts warp perceptions and the language barrier between the Dothraki and other nations would cause further miscommunication. Eventually we're just left with some Dothraki folk tales of the spooky forest where no one goes. Who's going to connect that to the COTF when most people don't even believe they exist?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It can very well be the case that the dothraki stories become too distorted for anyone to make the association. But I imagine someone would take notice of the tales by now, especially in the Citadel. Luwin has a valyrian steel link, presumably studied with the few other maesters to do so, including Marwyn who wandered throughout a good chunk of Essos, yet makes no mention of a possible Children habitat right beneath Ib. Maybe I'm overthinking this, my point is that maybe we're all overthinking Ifeqevron just because Elio said there was something interesting in the name.

On a side note, it's curious how the forest is so close to Ib, yet it's the dothraki name we see in the map (supposedly drawn by a maester in Westeros). I'd wager the ibbenese have their own name for that forest, and they'd be more likely to spread it to other parts of the world than landlocked dothrakis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not as weird as you may think... the Dothraki tend to be freaked by magic and witches of any kind, so it makes sense they would simply avoid what is for them, freaky territory. Re: the Ib colonies on the coast, well, they are in ruins... So maybe they aren't that eager to go there anymore.

It's an interesting place to be sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, never saw this one coming.

Curiously, there is no word for spider in the dothraki dictionary. No word for deadly either, and all the words for dead, to die, to kill etc. are very different from any morpheme of Ifeqevron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it's a seven legged spider and that's were the seven reference I think Ran made came from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm as surprised by the claim it has to do with spiders as everyone else. That isn't my understanding. Maybe the spider became associated with the word somehow.... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm as surprised by the claim it has to do with spiders as everyone else. That isn't my understanding. Maybe the spider became associated with the word somehow.... :)

Ahhh the ever-cryptic Ran! Seriously though, deadly forest spiders??? What a letdown! Ran- I was under the impression that you updated the wiki..can we accept this translation at face value? And if so, why isn't the term in the Dothraki dictionary??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ifeqevron is a Dothraki language word referring to a type of deadly forest spider.

The Source: http://forum.dothraki.org/beginners/map-translations/

I saw it here: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Kingdoms_of_the_Ifeqevron

Yay !!

Deadly.Forest.Spiders!!!

Deadly forest spiders. Hmm... am I the only one that thinks that this is a reference/homage to the giant spiders of Mirkwood?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vaes Qosar. Ifequvron. They have in common...a Q? An O? I don't see the connection to forest spiders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhh the ever-cryptic Ran! Seriously though, deadly forest spiders??? What a letdown! Ran- I was under the impression that you updated the wiki..can we accept this translation at face value? And if so, why isn't the term in the Dothraki dictionary??

An administator at Dothraki.org contacted David Peterson, the developer of the Dothraki and Valyrian languages, for translations of the new Dothraki placenames from TLOIAF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing one might ask is, were the location names in the Lands of Ice and Fire invented by David Peterson (or otherwise consulted with him), or were they invented by Martin? There are no words for spider or deadly in the dothraki dictionary, so I'd wager an educated guess by David would be something alongside what we've seen in this topic. On the other hand, Martin has always created his words by himself, and just maybe he did it again without consulting David. A broader question this brings is, how canon is the dothraki dictionary and grammar? We know it's show-canon, but hasn't been used in the books as best I can remember (I don't even think there's any new dothraki word in Dance). Is there any quote by Martin stating the canonicity of it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×