[Book Spoilers] Theon and "Boy"

[~Shiera Seastar~]

Theon is back in his dungeon! :crying:

I hope Alfie Allen gets a nomination 'coz he did some really great thumbs-up scenes this season. And oh, he and Iwan Rheon have a good twisted chemistry (for bringing their book characters on screen, I mean).

[Ramsay Gimp]

The whole "your sister sent me to rescue you" thing is pissing me off. I like Iwan as Ramsay, but right now people think Yara is having men torture Theon, in the middle of the North. It's gotten to the point where I just spoil them on who "boy" is, and why he has Theon. It shouldn't be something that has to be "spoiled", anyway.

In short, I just don't see why Ramsay's identity has to be a "surprise." The fake friendship thing was cool (though I thought it would be more twisted if Ramsay pretended to be another prisoner) but at this point the audience should know who exactly has Theon

[Lord Godric]

I'm not looking forward to the inevitable Ramsay fans that the TV show will promote.

[Pinkie Baelish]

The whole "your sister sent me to rescue you" thing is pissing me off. I like Iwan as Ramsay, but right now people think Yara is having men torture Theon, in the middle of the North. It's gotten to the point where I just spoil them on who "boy" is, and why he has Theon. It shouldn't be something that has to be "spoiled", anyway.

In short, I just don't see why Ramsay's identity has to be a "surprise." The fake friendship thing was cool (though I thought it would be more twisted if Ramsay pretended to be another prisoner) but at this point the audience should know who exactly has Theon

I thought the audience was led to believe that Balon had Theon tortured?

[iheartseverus]

The whole "your sister sent me to rescue you" thing is pissing me off. I like Iwan as Ramsay, but right now people think Yara is having men torture Theon, in the middle of the North. It's gotten to the point where I just spoil them on who "boy" is, and why he has Theon. It shouldn't be something that has to be "spoiled", anyway.

In short, I just don't see why Ramsay's identity has to be a "surprise." The fake friendship thing was cool (though I thought it would be more twisted if Ramsay pretended to be another prisoner) but at this point the audience should know who exactly has Theon

Totally agree. The whole 'keep Ramsay a secret and Theon's torture incomprehensible' has just become... incomprehensible. A mess rather than a mystery. Viewers aren't asking 'who's doing this to Theon?' Rather, they're asking WTF is any of this supposed to mean.' Its not working, my 2 cents.

[Bastard of Balmora]

Love this storyline, but I'm hating it at the same time because Theon is one of my favorite characters.

Anyone catch Ramsay's accent change when he says "Put him back where he belongs" can't wait to hear him talk more in the Ramsay voice.

"fans of Ramsay have existed prior to the show, I've always "liked" or appreciated the villain that Ramsay is from a literary perspective, I have an odd interest with House Bolton even though they've done terrible things. Now, the tumblr crowd that romanticizes Ramsay and Theon is weird, but whatever. That's always bound to happen.

edit: also, Theon says to Ramsay that those men said his father knew of his being tortured. Was this during any of the scenes, or just something we're supposed to infer Theon heard off-screen?

[Dove]

The whole "your sister sent me to rescue you" thing is pissing me off. I like Iwan as Ramsay, but right now people think Yara is having men torture Theon, in the middle of the North. It's gotten to the point where I just spoil them on who "boy" is, and why he has Theon. It shouldn't be something that has to be "spoiled", anyway.

In short, I just don't see why Ramsay's identity has to be a "surprise." The fake friendship thing was cool (though I thought it would be more twisted if Ramsay pretended to be another prisoner) but at this point the audience should know who exactly has Theon

I think it's to keep the Boltons from appearing too suspicious before Roose's betrayal so it comes as more of a shock. Especially when you figure how shifty Roose's later release of Jaime is.

I agree that it's probably unecessary though - back during episode 2-3 even the couple of non-reader friends of mine that did pick up on the fact that Theon was strapped to an X like the Bolton sigil just assumed that Roose's bastard was working alone, and trying to sieze the north while most of the lords were distracted by the war down south. The rest just assumed it was the ironborn.

[Dr. Pepper]

What I don't understand is why the writers would want the Boltons to know that Bran and Rickon aren't dead.

In the books, Ramsay is the one who kills the miller's boys so he already knows Bran and Rickon escaped. Later, in Dance, when Roose comes North, it's revealed that he knows as well. Since they didn't have Ramsay last season, I assume this is there way of working that bit into the show....that the Boltons know the Stark boys are alive.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I thought the audience was led to believe that Balon had Theon tortured?

Well, "Yara's man" is the one who led him back to the dungeon, so my friend and the people on TWOP think she is behind it (perhaps with Balon too). My parents are just confused. And I just don't see the purpose of all the obfuscation - they should have spent this time building up the aura of the Dreadfort and the Bastard (perhaps having "Boy" telling Theon all about Ramsay's evil exploits...hehehe)

[Darth Pipes]

I watched Season 1 before I read the books. I liked Theon in Season 1 and they made him a little more sympathetic with scenes like pledging his sword to Robb and his feeling angry/hurt about Robb criticizing him for the way he saved Theon. When I read the books, I couldn't get over how unlikeable he was although his storyline was compelling. By ADWD's, I had definitely become a Theon fan again as his storyline was one of the best in all five books. It was right for him to be punished for his crimes but I do think he has been punished for them.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I think it's to keep the Boltons from appearing too suspicious before Roose's betrayal so it comes as more of a shock. Especially when you figure how shifty Roose's later release of Jaime is.

I agree that it's probably unecessary though - back during episode 2-3 even the couple of non-reader friends of mine that did pick up on the fact that Theon was strapped to an X like the Bolton sigil just assumed that Roose's bastard was working alone, and trying to sieze the north while most of the lords were distracted by the war down south. The rest just assumed it was the ironborn.

The RW should be a shock, but there should also be warning signs - red flags like there were in the books. Ramsay's antics in ACOK, Roose sending men to Duskendale and then claiming he didn't order it to Robb's face, Roose's convo with Jaime, Roose "hunting wolves" at the end of ACOK. Besides, torturing Theon doesn't really out the Boltons as "traitors" to the North.

There were clear signs of Bolton evil and treachery - doesn't mean the RW can't still be shocking, since no one will be expecting that big of a betrayal.

[Darth Pipes]

I understand wanting to keep some of the mystery surrounding the Boltons for the non-Sullied TV viewers but Roose himself was revealed as a pretty bad guy going back to A Clash of Kings.

[Dove]

I wonder if they'll tell his name in his next appearance, or if they'll drag it out until we're on the cusp of the Red Wedding. There was a clip of Asha in a few of the trailers, so we'll probably see something from the ironborn soon that makes it clear that they have no part in Theon's predicament - something tells me they won't reveal him until after that, but that's just guessin'.

Love this storyline, but I'm hating it at the same time because Theon is one of my favorite characters.

Anyone catch Ramsay's accent change when he says "Put him back where he belongs" can't wait to hear him talk more in the Ramsay voice.

The voice/accent change was great. From meek dude to creepy fuck in no time flat. I'm really looking forward to more of his stuff now that we've caught a glimpse at who he really is.

[Team Renlys Peach]

And here comes Ramsay with the sick lit up face and crazy eyes. String him up boys! Wow what an episode!

Regardless of what side one may be on(as well as what is trending online), this was one hell of a show.

Last episode had me hanging to see the crazy in Ramsay and how/when it would play out. It was just as fulfilling as "Dracarys" was tonight.

[Montey14]

We finally see that "boy" betrays Theon...but we're not formally introduced to Ramsey as Theon's tormentor. It is kind of dragging out too long....but I guess they had to play out the attempted escape without kiera.....and put Ramsey in her place...just like he thought ramsey was Reek in the book...I guess they have to make him think he's on his side at first.

[Eric Xayavong]

Well a friend of mine has spoiled the entire series for himself since season 1 lol. Although, he doesn't know how all the events are connected. He knows that the Frey's betray the Starks, but not the other houses involved. He was confused as to who was held Theon. I tell him spoilers anyways because he will look for them himself afterwards anyways. So when I told him it was the Bolton's holding Theon he asked, "But Roose doesn't tell Robb?" *Sudden realization and mind blown* I believe this is the effect they want for the red wedding, and only rewatching the series will connect the dots. Throwing many hints such as the cross and the little bastard line.

I did hold back telling him who Boy was :)

Alfie's scenes are great. *standing ovation*

[Team Renlys Peach]

Anyone catch Ramsay's accent change when he says "Put him back where he belongs" can't wait to hear him talk more in the Ramsay voice.

I can't wait for more Ramsay voice! Hes already so much more entertaining than the sloppy greasy nasty book Ramsay.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

I have to disagree with a few criticisms of the Theon/"Boy" scenes and how much information is revealed in them, although I can see others have hit my main points for me here:

1. It's important to not give away too much about who "Boy" is, since doing too much there would take away from the impact that the RW can have. It doesn't matter how it was set up in the books (as much as many people who post here consider such a thought to be sacrilege), it matters how this plays out as part of serialized television. This season will have people talking in a way that will make Ned's execution look like child's play (and that was a moment that, if it hadn't been based off of a pre-existing book, would've been one of the most bold and daring moves we'd ever seen in scripted television).
   
   
2. All that said, the "flayed man" sigil that Bolton's men carry (it's been most prominently displayed by the Bolton bannermen that captured Jaime and Brienne) is echoed in the torture room, so you know that there are some subtle throwaways that will reward non-bookreaders when they look back on this on DVD.
   
   
3. I'm glad people are enjoying this storyline. Sure, by it's nature you have to invent scenes that technically aren't in the books, but for how much of nothing Theon's going to be doing for a few seasons, it's nice to keep him fresh on the viewer's minds. My only complaint about this is the "character takes a journey to end up in the same spot" trope, which I dislike in any TV show (Lost was the worst with that one).
   
   
4. Okay, my other complaint is that I wish they would've waited a few more episodes before bringing Theon back into the series. Episode 5 or 6 maybe. As much as I like giving Theon more to do when adapting books that he's largely absent from, I liked the idea that there would be some suspense in wondering what happened to him post-Winterfell even more.
   
   
5. Alfie Allen is great on this show, one of it's secret stars, and this episode was no exception. Excellently played, and I think the writers have done well by Theon's inner turmoil.
   
   
6. That shit-eating smirk on Iwan Rheon's face when he lit the torch was beautifully played. He was well-cast for Ramsay, IMO.
   

[theREALjonsnow]

Ramsay & Theon are not at the Dreadfort but are at Deepwood Motte right?

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Ramsay & Theon are not at the Dreadfort but are at Deepwood Motte right?

Not necessarily. Clearly, Ramsay as pulling Theon's leg this whole time.