[Book Spoilers] EP304 Discussion

[john]

YES!!! He was seriously scary good. The part going to Craster along the lines of, "you daughter fucking bastard" gave me the creeps.

It was a bit odd that he came out of nowhere just to put craster down but I guess it would have been out of character for Rast to do it.

It was a good scene, had the same sort of menace as in the book when you realise the NW is full of seriously bad men who don't necessarily like to take orders.

I could totally see that guy stabbing Kit Harrington to death in a few seasons time.

[Ampris]

i seem to be in the minority but i really don't like that theon says "my real father lost his head in king's landing." i think that makes no sense and is out of character. theon was a ward. ned treated him well but at arms distance. it would have made more sense to have him say something like the man i wished i was like or something but having a hostage say his captor was a real father is too twisted.

Theon wanted to be a Stark. Makes sense then that he would consider Ned his father.

[Lady Lea]

i seem to be in the minority but i really don't like that theon says "my real father lost his head in king's landing." i think that makes no sense and is out of character. theon was a ward. ned treated him well but at arms distance. it would have made more sense to have him say something like the man i wished i was like or something but having a hostage say his captor was a real father is too twisted.

I agree, jons nissa

Lord Eddard had tried to play the father from time to time, but to Theon he had always remained the man who’d brought blood and fire to Pyke and taken him from his home. As a boy, he had lived in fear of Stark’s stern face and great dark sword. His wife was, if anything, even more distant and suspicious.

[Despot]

One of the best episodes so far. Excellent.

Let's start with the obvious - the Astapor scene was perfect. After a while, I really liked Emilia Clarke's acting. She is a beautiful women, no doubt, but somehow - after season one - she didn't really persuade me that she IS Daenerys, the mother of dragons, the queen, the person who is natural born leader. Up to now. But now, she really sounded right - i hope she will continue to act so. Whole scene was near to perfection, I think, with that music...Phenomenal.

Next, Tywin & Cercei scene. Also brilliant. I need to say that Lena Headey played part in (for me) some of the best scenes in the series - a dialog with Robert at season one, for example, and now, this. Kudos to her, really. And of course, to Charles Dance. After a "caring parent" role that he had at season two (scenes with Arya) I'm really satisfied with this return to good old basics. This is Tywin. And Charles Dance is a perfect fellow to be Tywin.

Pleeeeaseee, give us a proper Tywin & Joffrey duel scene. That is a perfect opportunity to show us Tywin at his best.

Varys & Tyrion scene : Very good, I liked it. Why? Because, I think it shows - to a non- book audience - who really Varys is. Not a soft- voice eunuch who is - nobody knows why - just a master of spies - but a patient, intelligent and above all dangerous man. Even book readers don't know,at this point, what is Varys's goal in the "Game of thrones" - but, whatever it is, we know that he is working on that for years. This scene shows that side of Varys. Long term planner.

I apologize for eventual mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Despot

[JMJ]

It was a bit odd that he came out of nowhere just to put craster down but I guess it would have been out of character for Rast to do it.

It was a good scene, had the same sort of menace as in the book when you realise the NW is full of seriously bad men who don't necessarily like to take orders.

I could totally see that guy stabbing Kit Harrington to death in a few seasons time.

I would chalk up the out of nowhere-ness to how little time the show has for each scene. They did show Gorman eyeing one of Craster's wives in E03, so it fits IMO.

Re: the Jon Snow stabbing, I honestly didn't see Bowen Marsh and his team as nearly as vicious or evil. Marsh and team seemed more misguided than anything. But it does highlight the LC job has quite a bit of job insecurity.

[A Real Dire Wolf]

Loved this one. The Dracarys scene was a real "punch the air and shout YES" awesome moment for me when I read the books, and the show made it even better.

Is the Pod thing building up to something relevant, or...?

As a book reader, pretty much everything the Tyrell women to or about Joffrey seems really ominous. "It is for mothers to protect our sons from the grave." "Would you like to see me [kill something]?" Brrrr! :uhoh:

[JMJ]

So, do you all think they will change the opening credits to show Yunkai next week?

[Honourable Ser]

Yeah but Barristan Selmy and Jorah Mormont. They didn't say a word and managed to steal the show. I'm still having to clean up I enjoyed it that much.

[High_Heart_Hag]

Did Catelyn in Brans dream make everyone else think of Lady Stoneheart?

Definite foreshadowing on that account. She's going to rock in her role as undead Cat. But i guess they're waiting for the next episode on the undead Beric reveal?

[Moët]

Oberyn doesn't need to befriend Tyrion. They do end up being jovial to each other, but he doesn't offer to be Tyrion's champion out of friendship. The only reason he chooses to do so is to get revenge on the Mountain.

There is no need for him to be there at the wedding to be Tyrion's champion, because his trial doesn't take place at that time.

:agree:

Everyone acts as though Oberyn is there because of the wedding, when he's not. He's there to join the Small Council because of the Myrcella exchange. There is really no reason he needs to be at the wedding, especially now we have Tywin as an additional possible poisoner.

[High_Heart_Hag]

I feel like the only fan/viewer who found much of the Dany shots and soundtrack cheesy. Yes, cheesy. I'm not trying to be a hater. I wanted to love her ballsy move just as I did while reading. But I can't help but see these scenes ending up on The Soup. It was like cringing during Dune or Waterworld when the sets were noticeable. Everything else was great, but as soon as the Unsullied changed formation with their shields glistening in the sunset I couldn't help but laugh at how much the scene evoked 300 ... in a bad way. It was a jarring contrast to the aesthetic of every other episode up to this point. That could have been a good thing, but it was a fail from my perspective.

[Ampris]

:agree:

Everyone acts as though Oberyn is there because of the wedding, when he's not. He's there to join the Small Council because of the Myrcella exchange. There is really no reason he needs to be at the wedding, especially now we have Tywin as an additional possible poisoner.

Are you suggesting Oberyn might be eliminated in the show?

[Lady Lea]

I feel like the only fan/viewer who found much of the Dany shots and soundtrack cheesy. Yes, cheesy. I'm not trying to be a hater.

Cool guys don't look at explosions.

[Brewmaster]

Are you suggesting Oberyn might be eliminated in the show?

I think the suggestion is that he doesn't need to be there for the wedding to still be there for the trial.

[Moët]

Are you suggesting Oberyn might be eliminated in the show?

Nope. I'm pretty sure I didn't remotely say, "suggest", or infer anything of the sort. But 10/10 for reading words in my post that I didn't write. :thumbsup:

I'm saying we can have the PW without him, this season, then introduce him in ep1 in S4. In fact, we don't need him to be at the PW at all. He just needs to be Tyrion's champion, and that relationship can happen after the PW, even if it's next season. I for one, think the PW makes the most sense this season. :dunno: It would be nice to have an entire season without a wedding.

I know others have suggested that Bronn could take Oberyn's place like Loras is taking Willas's place, but I think we need to get the Dornish into the story sooner, rather than later, and I for one don't want to drown in the ocean of tears if they were to cut The RV.

I think the suggestion is that he doesn't need to be there for the wedding to still be there for the trial.

:bowdown:

Edited April 22, 2013 by Moët

[jons nissa]

Theon wanted to be a Stark. Makes sense then that he would consider Ned his father.

i totally get theon wanting to be a stark. i do not think it makes sense for a hostage to consider his captor his father.

Lord Eddard had tried to play the father from time to time, but to Theon he had always remained the man who’d brought blood and fire to Pyke and taken him from his home. As a boy, he had lived in fear of Stark’s stern face and great dark sword. His wife was, if anything, even more distant and suspicious.

thanks for the quote lady lea! i'm not a purist by any means but i think given what the show has shown of ned and theon this was out of character.

[Ampris]

Nope. I'm pretty sure I didn't remotely say, "suggest", or infer anything of the sort. But 10/10 for reading words in my post that I didn't write. :thumbsup:

I was asking for clarification on what you meant. No need to be rude.

[total1402]

Some really good scenes in this episode, but I feel we could have traded some of the Kings Landing scenes for some of Jon. I want to hear Ygritte say "You know nothin Jon Snow" again god dammit! They all revolve around people doing things about Sansa. The initial scene with Olenna was meant to have the marriage proposal but those scenes did drag it out. It was cute to see Sansa react to the proposal by Marg; but I can't help but feel like shes a supporting character not one of the main ones.

Top three scenes are-

Dracarys- Goes without saying, near perfect and actually better than the books. Having Emelia Clark lay into Kraznez for being an idiot and playing on the language thing is far more satisfying than it has a right to be (my Dad actually burst out laughing when he got incinerated). This is probably the most badass Emelia Clarke has ever sounded and very convincingly so; which at times she didn't quite manage I felt. Add to that the symbolism of the speech and the whip being trod underfoot with the music and you have a simply epic conclusion to an episode. I do have misgivings about what they cut to get to this moment by episode 4; but the execution was stunning for that scene. Two minor deviations from the book. Dany is made a lot less bloodthirsty with an ambiguous don't kill any child than the more specific 12+ die. True we do see unarmed slavers killed but its much less dark than in the books. Another was that Jorah is not a part of this plan and is just as surprised; even that Dany could speak Valyrian. In the book she took him and her bloodriders into her confidence beforehand. When Jorah looks at her having done this feat and she walks away without acknowledging him it very much implies that she has outgrown him; leaving him looking somewhat insecure. It certainly mirrors their later issues well although I don't understand why Dany would not have told him or her bloodriders beforehand.

Beric + Hound - The guy who plays the hound actually did a good job here; normally hes a gruff near-mute giant. You really got the sense of venom at him hating his brother and he holds his ground against the brotherhood; trading insults and demanding they cut his throat. Beric also carries himself well and its quite funny when he says that he will challenge him in personal combat. It manages to balance exposition with character as well as filling in the blanks for people who forgot who the brotherhood were; so I really like it for that.

Crasters Keep- Yeah, the shit really hit the fan and all the tension exploded. Jeor being stabbed in the back was terrible and now it looks like its all on Sam. It really leaves you feeling a sense of dread for how the Nights Watch can hold the wall; not that their odds were high to begin with.

Edited April 22, 2013 by total1402

[Moët]

I was asking for clarification on what you meant. No need to be rude.

No need to be sensitive to a direct answer. I didn't remotely say anything you "suggested" I was "suggesting."

I also don't think it's nice to twist someone's words into something they didn't remotely say. So your asking if I was suggesting something I didn't remotely suggest was a giant stretch of the facts.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Moët

[Ampris]

No need to be sensitive to a direct answer. I didn't remotely say anything you "suggested" I was "suggesting."

I also don't think it's nice to twist someone's words into something they didn't remotely say. So your asking if I was suggesting something I didn't remotely suggest was a giant stretch of the facts.

A direct answer would have been what the first person who replied said - that he doesn't need to be there for the wedding. The rudeness was all the sarcastic shit you threw in before making the same point. That's not being sensitive - you were rude, period. Again, you were not clear in the fact that you were saying that he didn't need to be there for the wedding but would be there afterward. Hence asking for clarification. Far safer than making an assumption. It's not like I accused you of saying that Oberyn will be eliminated from the show.