[Book Spoilers] EP304 Discussion

[Dragon Doll]

You may be right about them taking some of the mystery out of those three. But maybe not everything is as it appears on the show?

So far it looks like Margaery is making all nice with her king. I don't think watchers could expect the Purple Wedding at all.

I agree, yet disagree. I feel as if they're giving the 'unsullied' the perfect amount of clues without spoiling the twists. And i feel that all of Margaery's actions fit perfectly with my impression of her character. (strong, manipulative...)

[ferreyra anderson]

Thought that was a given.

ep 9 - Red Wedding

ep 10 - Purple wedding.

Season closes with Tyrion being accused and restrained.

That would be soo awesome... plus Sansa escaping...

[DarkLordVerjal]

Jeez, every episode that passes it makes it more and more difficult to wait a week. This week's staggeringly good episode is no exception, and now I feel the need to join in on the conversation a bit.

I loved Jaime from the first ep I saw him in, since I haven't read the books(yet), his whole story was new to me. Despite him seemingly being a completely terrible person. Certain people see different things, and I saw a generally decent man with his own moral code. But his family were exceptions to his code, and most people in the world feel the same way. And being a glutton for spoilers, I couldn't help but read wiki on him and synopsis on the books; dropping me smack dab in this spiffy forum.

Wiki is only so detailed though, so I was wondering if him and Brienne fall in love, and whether or not he regains his infamous skill with a blade?

[Kenyatta]

Definitely not the only one.

IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR IT TO HAPPEN BEFORE THE RED VIPER IS INTRODUCED.

Exactly. Where are the Dornish? Where is Oberyn Martell? That's what I've been waiting for. The "purple" wedding can't happen before Tyrion/Sansa Wedding and if that's the case you're talking about three weddings in six weeks. Not gonna happen.

ETA: Upon further review, here's what I think will happen. D&D are going to Godfather style and juxtapose RW with Tyrion/Sansa Wedding. Balon is pretty much an afterthought at this point. Maybe a cut scene with him falling off the bridge or something since he's not Theon's "real father" anyway. Then in the final scene you have Mellisandre coming back to Stannis and telling him "It is done my lord. Oh and by the way, I've had the best sex that I ever had with a real man who didn't go all limp on me before he climaxed....you're welcome."

Edited April 24, 2013 by Kenyatta

[Kenyatta]

When is Sam the Slayer going to happen? It has to be in front of the NW, or it doesn't have the same impact. This is really frustrating me.

Same here. I thought the Slayer scene happened before Craster's Keep?

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

Mutiny at Crasters! Mutiny in Astapor! best episode so far, by far!

[Khal Pono]

Emilia Carke was SO EFFING GOOD in this episode. As a huge fan of Emilia's I felt somewhat vindicated against her detractors that whine that she's a "bad actor." Critic Alan Sepinwall put it perfectly in his review of episode 4:

That scene was also a reminder of how great Emilia Clarke can be in this role when she's given good material. I don't know that Meryl Streep could have done much with all that "Where are my dragons?" whining from last season. Here her big moment comes in a (fictional) foreign language, and the subtitles are barely necessary. That's how good she is.

I echo the user who was concerned that having Sam slay the Other when none of his brothers around to see it happen would be very disappointing, but I don't think that's necessarily what will take place. He could meet up with Grenn and Edd before they get to Castle Black. Any number of situations/book deviations could transpire that would allow some of the watchmen to witness his "slayer" heroics.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Khal Pono

[Badvoc]

James Cosmo is a loss for the show even though I knew it had to happen eventually. :(

Totally agree with that, the man is a legend :) oh look that's him in my avatar with me ;)

[Khal Pono]

Also, I think the people who are complaining that Brienne's "you sound like a bloody woman line" is sexist are misreading some of the underlying motivations. The Brienne in the show does have enormous respect for women, as we see in the scene when she pledges herself to Catelyn as well as in the scene where she insists on burying the murdered sex workers and takes grisly revenge on one of their killers. Yes, they've made her more ferocious and bloodthirsty than she was in the books, but she is no less awkward or naive (as we saw in the scene where she stupidly tries to appeal to Locke's sense of honor by telling him she swore an oath to Lady Catelyn, as if he cares).

Her line about Jaime sounding like a woman was pure manipulation--trying to push his sexist buttons--an effort to try to snap him out of his funk in a desperate attempt to save his life.

Brienne may have feelings of self-loathing and be embarrassed of her huge body, but she does not hate other women or think less of them.

[Dragonstoned]

I'm still hurt over not introducing strong belwas, now who will kill the champion of Yankai?

Barristan probs, would be cool to see him in action.

[Dragonstoned]

Also, I think the people who are complaining that Brienne's "you sound like a bloody woman line" is sexist are misreading some of the underlying motivations. The Brienne in the show does have enormous respect for women, as we see in the scene when she pledges herself to Catelyn as well as in the scene where she insists on burying the murdered sex workers and takes grisly revenge on one of their killers. Yes, they've made her more ferocious and bloodthirsty than she was in the books, but she is no less awkward or naive (as we saw in the scene where she stupidly tries to appeal to Locke's sense of honor by telling him she swore an oath to Lady Catelyn, as if he cares).

Her line about Jaime sounding like a woman was pure manipulation--trying to push his sexist buttons--an effort to try to snap him out of his funk in a desperate attempt to save his life.

Think it's 50-50 as to whether it was sexist or was her pushing his buttons. Either way, is pushing people's buttons something Brienne even does? From her POV chapters she seems too naive to manage people in that way but I might be wrong.

The question should be whether D&D's line is as good as 'are you so craven?' which I don't see anyone arguing. Instead of sexism etc. I thought they were just trying to make Brienne look 'hard' or 'badass' in her back-and-forth with Jaime, and misjudged it.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Dragonstoned

[Sword in the Night]

Hi everyone, fan of the forums and first time poster. The show introduced me to the books and I've been hooked ever since.

This episode was one of my favourites and I really liked how the pace of everything is starting to pick up more. Also been really curious as to how D&D were going to handle Theon's scenes this season since it really is sort of new territory that they're adapting but the "my real father lost his head in kings landing" line really stuck a chord. I'm still reading ADWD and really enjoying Theon's chapters but its nice to see in his in real time his moment of revelation of "oh shit, i really fucked up here"

As for Brienne's comment, I just chalked it up to the hegemonic masculinity that was the prevailing viewpoint of the times. People definitely did feel that men were superior to women, at least in terms of fighting (look at all the abuse Brienne takes for being a woman), so Brienne probably thought it was the best thing to say to get Jaime back on track. Its easy to see it as sexism now, but I don't think it was meant to be construed that way.

Also, Dracarys!!!!! :bowdown:

[Daske]

I've heard plenty of women say to men things like 'you big girl!' (or 'you big girl's blouse!') or 'you run like a girl'. It's usually heavily laced with irony and directed at a particularly sexist or macho man who is being particularly crap at that moment. Which does fit with the Brienne scene somewhat. It's all about the irony, context, and who is saying it.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Daske

[The Monkey]

I wish we'd get at least some scene where Sansa reacts to Bran and Rickon's supposed death. Notwithstanding that the scene would be a nice emotional piece in and of itself, it's important that it's made clear that this turn of events is known in KL, because that's what makes Sansa Robb's heir, and all the more important as a marriage prize.

[Khal Porno]

My girlfriend says stuff like that to me all the time. Including the "you sound like a woman" thing when she thinks I'm being dramatic about something, exactly the situation between Jaime and Brienne. She doesn't do it because she hates women and hates herself.

This whole argument is silly, and people grasping for whatever criticisms they can level at the show because they don't like that some things are different from the books.

[LastDragonLives]

Exactly. Where are the Dornish? Where is Oberyn Martell? That's what I've been waiting for. The "purple" wedding can't happen before Tyrion/Sansa Wedding and if that's the case you're talking about three weddings in six weeks. Not gonna happen.

ETA: Upon further review, here's what I think will happen. D&D are going to Godfather style and juxtapose RW with Tyrion/Sansa Wedding. Balon is pretty much an afterthought at this point. Maybe a cut scene with him falling off the bridge or something since he's not Theon's "real father" anyway. Then in the final scene you have Mellisandre coming back to Stannis and telling him "It is done my lord. Oh and by the way, I've had the best sex that I ever had with a real man who didn't go all limp on me before he climaxed....you're welcome."

They have already said that this season is only the 1st half of Book 3! Therefore, there will be no Purple Wedding. Most likely the season will end before Tyrion and Sansa marry as well. The Red Wedding will be close to if not the end of the season. I think GRRM said he would have to hide from the internet after an episode this season and we all know what that means.

[LastDragonLives]

Episode 9 is named "Rains of Castamere" I'd put my life savings down the Red Wedding happens in episode 9

Without a doubt. And then episode 10 will be the last of the season, leading into season 4 where we have to wait another year to see Joffery's creepy face choke to death. This is the spoilers thread people sorry if you click the wrong one and I ruin it for you.

[LastDragonLives]

Don't worry, I'v read the books, so you are not spoiling anything :cheers:

I have a slightly different opinion on Daenerys, though. I think she was a frightened little girl at the first book, but after that, she did become a leader. I think there are two main reasons why she appears like a "whiny mess" from time to time, especially later in the books :

1)She is new in that queen/leader business - she doesn't know what to do, where to go, how to make all those people (liberated slaves) safe, etc. So, she is a bit lost in all of that.

2)We can see her thoughts.That's the main reason, if you ask me. We can see how insecure she is, how tired, and so on. We don't get to see that when un - POV characters are concerned , like Tywin, for example. He looks firm as a rock, in any moment. But, if we got to see his thoughts, who the hell knows how would that look like. Maybe he feels overwhelmed with the situation from time to time as well. Maybe he lusts for Shae :drool: :laugh: . We will never find out, all we know is that he looks like a boss in any situation.

Good example for this is Melissandre. Seen through eyes of others, she looks like a confidence itself; But her POV chapter shows us that she is also insecure. So, in short : Without POV status, Daenerys would seem as a proper Dragon queen, not as a whiner. That's my impression.

Anyway, my remark to Emilia Clarke was that she failed to show us how charismatic and confident Daenerys could be, when she isn't whining. :lol: . Like she doesn't know how to be relaxed, but authoritative at the same time . Charles Dance knows :smug: But she is improving, I think.

And, yes it would be better that an Astapor scene was a proper Blood - bath, but I think budget reasons prevent that ( a massive fight and so on).

I want to apologize for a long post, especially to "LastDragonLives" who, most probably will try to read it to the end.Sorry :)

And of course, for any mistakes.

I agree with you for the most part, we don't get to see her thoughts shich is a big part of it. They have ways of doing this on TV (voices in the background etc) but they haven't done it in the show yet so I doubt they will start now. Agreed that budget constraints probably shortened the Astapor scene, but scenes like that are what make the show. Not long, boring Catelyn monolouges. I can't even imagine how much it costs HBO to make the show but I'm sure they are making it back or they wouldn't have renewed them for another season. Maybe because I read the books after seeing season 1 and 2 is why I am minorly disappointed by this season, which is understandable, but I watched Seasons 1 and 2 again after I read the books and liked them just as much. I dunno I just feel like something is missing so far this season. And I don't like them adding storylines and changing time frames like having Theon just show up now when he didn't come back to the story before ADWD.

[HopeForSpring]

I think they have some constraints because of dealing with real people with real acting careers.

They have to give more scenes to the actors they do have and are important - like Varys, like Theon - so they can keep them around for the indefinite number of years this might take. So we end up with scenes that aren't in the book like Varys and QoT

Meanwhile actors that are seen in the first season and then not again until many seasons later - like Mago - might as well kill them of in case the actor isn't around.

I didn't like what they did to the Night Watch at all (no sam the slayer, no holding of Mormont's head...) but in general they are doing a tough job of collapsing characters really well.

[LastDragonLives]

You are right the actors probably don't want to wait 3 years before coming back to the show. Also I agree that no Sam the Slayer is weak (I think this has probably been eliminated by now, and he actually DID get off the Ravens, which they said he didn't in the first episode).