[Book Spoilers] EP304 Discussion

[Ampris]

It was important for Jaime but do you really think non-book readers would draw the same conclusion as book readers when it comes to Selmy? And we don't even know if they will use the Robert the Strong thing.

They took the time to put Qyburn in the wreckage of Harrenhal so I assume they will introduce Frankenstein. Meh the Selmy part is too late, but still, Cersei has to arrange deaths in order to get who she wants on the KG so she can have her champion. I think that's important, but I guess they can get around it too.

[Joyful Union]

Theon's speech about Ned being his real father...I cried a little

[analeigh]

At least Ros is being used as a character instead of just stripping down for the obligatory sex scene for the episode. I don't mind her double agent role because I'm expecting Littlefinger to kill her when Sansa escapes King's Landing. She takes the place of Dontos and eliminates introducing more depth into a temporary character.

Also, I absolutely loved the scene of Sansa praying in nature! I like the little details that show the Starks haven't completely forgotten each other, the ways of the North, or Ned himself. Jon and Arya sharpening their blades like Ned did in Season 2, Sansa with the doll Ned gave her or praying in nature, Bran remembering his father and brothers teaching him to shoot a bow and arrow. Just warms my heart considering how much further the family will fall still.

And the Theon scenes...heartbreaking. Especially that line about his real father losing his head in King's Landing. Great added line by the tv writers.

[Winterfellian]

I am bothered more by the fact that LF keeps her out in the open like that. So she has skills - still, bookLF would have been more circumspect about it.

HOWEVER - look where he comes from. Hard not to see a reflection between her rise in station and his own.

Exactly! He tours the city with her as one modern day business men or famous person would with his personal assistant!

About the second, I subscribe to the idea that LF''s origins aren't as humble as he likes to pretend. Sure he's no lord paramount but is not as if he rose from a gutter like Varys or even Davos. He is the son of a lord (small lordship as it might be is still a lordship) and he was fostered in Riverrun. This means that growing up he received the same advantage of education and training that Lord Hoster's own children. This is far from being a self made man in the same scale as Varys or Davos are.

[Lord of Cheese]

I liked much of it. And it finished very very well.

Im disappointed that its looking likely that we will not see Sam the Slayer. I was annoyed at how long the scene between Joff and Marg was taking for no character development or story advancement at all. I also am a little frustrated with the Bran scenes. Its pointless. I know Bran will have interweirwoodnet, but this is not the same as that. These seem more like dreams rather than reliving the past as an tree pov.

[Ser_Patreck]

Am curious In what way do you find her more "realistic"? She's a prostitute that can read and write (that should start cluing you in about the realism aspect. How many smallfolk in a medieval setting actually had this skill?) and now she's ascended to hand of the pimp, to borrow another poster description of her job. How many powerful men go about the city with a prostitute as executive assistant in Westeros?

The thing with "realistic" is - If a Song of Ice and Fire was as realistic as some people claim it is/has to be, Arya would have been dead in one week, Brienne would've been raped thrice already, and so would Sansa. When you do realize the thickness of plot armr around certain characters, and just the sheer amount of "coincidences" that brings characters together (Like the Hound and Arya, Jorah and Tyrion, Catelyn and Tyrion, so on and so forth), claims of "realism" seem to get a bit... Ridiculous.

[Blue Steel]

Arya and Brienne are quite realistic. Have you never known any Tomboys in your life?

Exactly they cycle through whores in the books, because no one whore is able to gain any prominence in Westeros due to the profession being looked down upon. Anyone who uses whores does not respect them, or casts them aside when they are no longer wanted. It shows the lack of empathy the characters have for women who have lived hard lives, rather than showing how anyone can make a name for themselves in Westeros as long as they're willing to get naked.

Brienne is akin to having a real life woman be able to beat up Anderson Silva in a fight. Not gonna happen. The best woman MMA fighter, Ronda Rousey, wouldn't be able to beat a single male professional MMA fighter. And what's so unrealistic about prostitutes being able to read and write? There are bound to be high class whores, just like there are in real life. There were many in history.

Arya is a tomboy; and, tomboys are real. But that doesn't make her character realistic. There are definitely arguments to be made against Ros. But realism isn't one of them.

I don't think the level of realism when measured against the real world is an important criterion in the books; and thus, it shouldn't be an important criterion in the tv show either. As long as they are realistic when it pertains to the world that GRRM created, then it's fine. And in a world with characters like Lyanna, the Wolf Maidens of Winterfell and the Sand Snakes, Arya is fine. But so is Ros. She can exist because there are other smart women in her world.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Blue Steel

[teemo]

Of course a lot of people would be dead in Arya's situation, but not everyone with a storyline can die, or else there would be no characters. Ros is just out of this world unbelievable and no depth or intrigue to her. She's AN EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT TO A PIMP in Westeros. That's just embarrassing.

[Lady Lea]

Ros is not a high class whore, just a common one from the North.

[Ser_Patreck]

Of course a lot of people would be dead in Arya's situation, but not everyone with a storyline can die, or else there would be no characters.

Correct. "Realism" decides nothing. "Plot convenience" does.

Ros is just out of this world unbelievable and no depth or intrigue to her. She's AN EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT TO A PIMP in Westeros. That's just embarrassing.

Now, that's just you being mean.

[Blue Steel]

Ros is not a high class whore, just a common one from the North.

And she's been with Littlefinger for over a year. Not enough time to learn how to read?

[Honey Badger]

I loved it. How they handled Dany's scene was much better than the books. In writing it felt too much like thievery how she took the Unsullied and got her dragon back. Here on screen there's so much open contempt that I totally buy the idea that she says "fuck it" and attacks. Still doesn't explain the fact that no slave city would allow trained warriors that could rebel against them.

I wish they showed the trial by combat but there's always next episode. Theon saying he made the wrong choice with Winterfell was a bit weird since we don't know if book Theon missed Ned as his "real" father. But whatever.

Edit: Ros I'm a little iffy about. One the plus side Esme Bianco is hot as fuck. If you Google her they turn off auto complete as the engine treats her as NSFW. Hah! On the negative end, it doesn't make sense for a podunk girl from a village to know how to read and write and understand political intrigue. Hopefully LF makes short work of her with a crossbow Dontos style.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Honey Badger

[Vague04]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but now it seems like the Boltons know that Bran and Rickon aren't dead. How will that change the story?

[Ampris]

I loved it. How they handled Dany's scene was much better than the books. In writing it felt too much like thievery how she took the Unsullied and got her dragon back. Here on screen there's so much open contempt that I totally buy the idea that she says "fuck it" and attacks. Still doesn't explain the fact that no slave city would allow trained warriors that could rebel against them.

I wish they showed the trial by combat but there's always next episode. Theon saying he made the wrong choice with Winterfell was a bit weird since we don't know if book Theon missed Ned as his "real" father. But whatever.

They are absolutely ingrained with the idea that their owner holds their absolute obedience.

[Lady Lea]

And she's been with Littlefinger for over a year. Not enough time to learn how to read?

What, is he in Teach for America now?

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Wrong. In the Blackwater episode Tyrion directly told the Hound "you're kingsguard Clegane" when he was trying to coax him to engaged in another sortie. So it IS pretty clear that the Hound was indeed a member of Joffrey's KG

You're right. I just checked, and I had forgotten that little detail. Was that the only time that it was mentioned? If that's so then I think the show didn't explain pretty well that he was a member of the KG, but well at least they did explain it.

[Vague04]

The Boston's are supposed to know that bran and rickon are not dead because in the books the bastard was pretending to be Theon's ally while still in Winterfell and it was actually his idea to kill the farmers sons and pretend they were the Starks. That was part of how he gained Theon's trust. Remember in the books it was Bolton men who killed Theon's men and burned Winterfell.

[Blue Steel]

I loved it. How they handled Dany's scene was much better than the books. In writing it felt too much like thievery how she took the Unsullied and got her dragon back. Here on screen there's so much open contempt that I totally buy the idea that she says "fuck it" and attacks. Still doesn't explain the fact that no slave city would allow trained warriors that could rebel against them.

I wish they showed the trial by combat but there's always next episode. Theon saying he made the wrong choice with Winterfell was a bit weird since we don't know if book Theon missed Ned as his "real" father. But whatever.

I don't know if I agree. Book Theon definitely remorses over his decision to betray the Starks. He even says to himself that he wishes he died fighting with Robb at the Red Wedding. And there definitely more in the crypt scene as well.

[Blue Steel]

What, is he in Teach for America now?

So what's more realistic: Ros being able to read or Brienne being one of the best warriors in the world?

Edited April 22, 2013 by Blue Steel

[Vague04]

The Hound was very clearly placed in the kings guard in the first season when Ser Barristan was dismissed, also he was shown in the white cloak multiple times including when he used it to cover up Sansa, which other people have also mentioned.