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The baseline is: Ros is not from the books. Ros shouldn't matter. Every minute spent in Ros is a minute a book character doesn't appear in.

I understand it. I just don't see any motive to rage on about it instead of just shrugging it off.

Because when the show is only on average 53 minutes long, and 3-4 minutes are used every episode on a character who shouldn't exist it adds up, and wastes almost a whole episode's worth of time that could be used on anything else.

1 - Did anyone entertained the thought Ros could've been a septa, or a lady in waiting or something that just became a whore through a series of unfortunate circumstances? That Ros (over)heard Littlefinger reading the list and is just pretending to know how to read? That Littlefinger is putting her up to it? I mean, yeah, I know some of these are far-fetched (Except the last one) but I'm more willing to try to enjoy the episode than to rage on about two minutes of banter. And to avoid taking things at face value.

The show has been pretty explicit so far about when characters are deceiving one another or feigning ignorance (through body language/facial expressions), I doubt that the rules change when Ros is in the room (and if they do it only strengthens my argument that she is a bad creation) Otherwise you simply propose backstories that justify her character faults, which the viewers shouldn't have to do. the characters should speak for themselves without the fans inventing reasons why they are the way they are.

Arya is my second favorite character actually. I'm even less of an authority on whether Arya's internal monologue is realistic since I'm not even a girl. Arya is unrealistic because there is no way that Arya would have survived for that long on her own during a bloody war. It's a plot contrivance that's written well.

Anyways, I don't think realism is important. Realism exists at the expense of plot.

Fair enough, but that's not the character that's at fault it's the plot itself that works around killing Arya off. She was smart enough to avoid revealing her identity to the wrong people. She has had some luck, I'll give you that, but even when her identity was revealed, remember that during medieval wars members of high-ranking nobility become a currency of sorts (trading for other prisoners/surrenders/etc), so it would serve no character who knows who she is any purpose to kill her. I'm also not a girl, so I'm afraid I really have no idea whether she thinks like one.

Edited by Blair Dale

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Arya is my second favorite character actually. I'm even less of an authority on whether Arya's internal monologue is realistic since I'm not even a girl. Arya is unrealistic because there is no way that Arya would have survived for that long on her own during a bloody war. It's a plot contrivance that's written well.

Anyways, I don't think realism is important. Realism exists at the expense of plot.

Precisely. Arya, herself. is not that unrealistic. The fact that she's still alive and whole is.

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She was in/around Winterfell when Sansa was born. Let's put Ros' age at about 25 (being generous here). She would be living around Winterfell since she was at least 12 then. I don't think there are many 12-year-old septas or ladies in waiting. She's just a peasant who became a whore.

Add to that the fact that the predominant religion in the North is the Old Gods and that there aren't many Septs around. Ned actually had to have one built for his own wife when Cat first came to WF, which proves that there probably isn't one in the winter town. If Ros, who by her own admittance, grew up in Winterfell's shadow, how can she possibly have been a Septa?

ETA-

Ros is a secret Targaryen.

:laugh: Nahhh...she's Jon's mother

Edited by Winterfellian

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- Love the Marg playing Joff like a fiddle and her scenes with Sansa, oh man Natalie Dormer is just knocking it out of the Park

- "Boy" fake out was cool but i loved that sick twisted smile he put on, shows whats to come

Natalie was so good in the Tudors and perfect for this role. Couldn't have found better casting.

Theon's scene I think they fucked up how he was walking and talking fine. He should have been hobbling badly with Bolton helping him. I couldn't help but notice Theon didn't care his finger/fingernail was missing, he got flayed a bit, and he took a wooden spike through the foot. His transformation should already be halfway through.

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GRR, BOOO with the Wand dropping!

The idea that the unsullied would gain free will after a lifetime of drug induced loyalty is very much unbelievable.

Though I guess since (it looks like) they decided to get rid of the other freed slaves, they need some target for Dany's freedom granting ways....

Bah humbug.

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Ros is a secret Targaryen.

Why not :P

I don't like Ros either, I think there is much that could be done instead of wasting time on her... but... I've read the books, that's why I feel she could be gone. And many people hasn't and they dont' mind about her nor are aware she doesn't exist. That and we need characters like her to explain certain stuff or changes because sometimes, some plots are neither obvious or clear for non readers. And why not, readers as well. If they are changing Sansa's escape, I'm intrigued about it. It's good sometimes they do change stuff for us who did read, so we don't know everything.

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Gods!!!! With all the great things this episode had, all anyone can talk about for 2 plus pages is Ros hatred? I normally don't get my hackles up about people's opinions, which of course they have every right to voice, but Seven bloody Hells have I grown weary of hearing the same old Ros complaints on these boards for 2+ seasons.

Every time the writers give her a line people find something in it to complain about: "The writers make her seem smarter than Varys..." "Ros is naked too much..." Ros is only good for being naked and she isn't naked enough..." "The actress is terrible..." "Ros isn't even a book character..." Maybe I will compile a list of the 1000 most common complaints about Ros and number them so the persistent complaints can read more like...Ros #768...Handy shorthand so I can get to fresh and interesting opinions rather than stale ones dating back to the pilot episode.

This is coming from someone who is much closer to being a book purist than a show changing apologist. I didn't like Ros either...but I learned to live with it rather than beating everyone who will listen or read over the head with the same complaints over and over. I learned to accept the role and have come to like Esme Bianco. Furthermore, she has played a valuable and, at times necessary, role in the show in a number of ways. The way D&D have chosen to adapt the show, right or wrong, made Ros, or a character like her, necessary.

Sorry for the angry rant...but I stand by everything in it, and I needed to vent it. I am far from a prolific poster, but I do spend a good deal of time on these boards and having to sort through the same rants for pages at a time for years is getting real old.

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Natalie was so good in the Tudors and perfect for this role. Couldn't have found better casting.

She really is great.

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Thought that was a given.

ep 9 - Red Wedding

ep 10 - Purple wedding.

Season closes with Tyrion being accused and restrained.

I hope not. I know that is one of the major questions in this show, but the PW episode 10 feels too contrived. My money would be on ep 3 or 4 of next season. But then again, I usually lose my bets so you're probably right. @#$% :)

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On Ros and realism:

We've seen Ros rise from common prostitute to 'Bottom Girl'... and maybe even 'Madam' working under Littlefinger. Neither of these positions is unusual or unrealistic. Also, as a well known brothel owner, it's not unrealistic or even unusual for Littlefinger to be seen with Ros.

Her quick rise to the position is unusual, but that could be justified by her literacy.

The literacy... yes that's a bit out there, but maybe she just had a lot of time and access to Winterfell's library? Okay... it's a stretch.

Edited by greensleeves

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I hope not. I know that is one of the major questions in this show, but the PW episode 10 feels too contrived. My money would be on ep 3 or 4 of next season. But then again, I usually lose my bets so you're probably right. @#$% :)

I don't see the Purple Wedding fitting in the final episode. When would the reactions to the Red Wedding take place? On the 15th course of Dornish Fire Peppers?

Edited by Blue Steel

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Gods!!!! With all the great things this episode had, all anyone can talk about for 2 plus pages is Ros hatred? I normally don't get my hackles up about people's opinions, which of course they have every right to voice, but Seven bloody Hells have I grown weary of hearing the same old Ros complaints on these boards for 2+ seasons.

Every time the writers give her a line people find something in it to complain about: "The writers make her seem smarter than Varys..." "Ros is naked too much..." Ros is only good for being naked and she isn't naked enough..." "The actress is terrible..." "Ros isn't even a book character..." Maybe I will compile a list of the 1000 most common complaints about Ros and number them so the persistent complaints can read more like...Ros #768...Handy shorthand so I can get to fresh and interesting opinions rather than stale ones dating back to the pilot episode.

This is coming from someone who is much closer to being a book purist than a show changing apologist. I didn't like Ros either...but I learned to live with it rather than beating everyone who will listen or read over the head with the same complaints over and over. I learned to accept the role and have come to like Esme Bianco. Furthermore, she has played a valuable and, at times necessary, role in the show in a number of ways. The way D&D have chosen to adapt the show, right or wrong, made Ros, or a character like her, necessary.

Sorry for the angry rant...but I stand by everything in it, and I needed to vent it. I am far from a prolific poster, but I do spend a good deal of time on these boards and having to sort through the same rants for pages at a time for years is getting real old.

<3

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Awesome episode! A few favorite moments:

- Ramsay's hyena smile. There was foreshadowing when he seemed to eyeroll when he was fiddling with the gate.

- Sansa looking like she was about to burst into tears; Margaery being so sweet and funny. She's like walking Prozac if she wants to make you happy.

- Joffrey acting like a lovesick puppy. His look of devotion when she spoke about severity, then his slightly worried expression when they first walked out to greet the people. If he didn't like her so much he would've been pissed they were saying Margaery, but it seemed to me he was more "holy crap, she's right!" Not that he's softening up as a person; he'd clearly view "giving the people love" as just a form of manipulation for the stupid peasants.

- Varys flirting with Olenna. Goodness they were cute. Varys' little glance at his nethers when she talked about the nonexistent meeting the decrepit. :laugh:

- Jaime's opening scene made me sad. I get very :unsure: when proud characters get broken down. I don't think Brienne was being sexist; I think she was just trying to say something that would piss him off.

- Arya's red eyes. Not tears of grief, but rather eyes getting watery with a super strong emotion.

- The whole final scene, of course.

Edited by PhoenixFlame

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Umm... except that for someone who is a master of manipulation, spying, etc reading is a pretty integral skill.

And that's exactly why he wouldn't want his common whores (who as we have seen he doesn't give a shit about) to learn to read and be able to read his notes, plots or schemes (oops plots and schemes are the same thing) and then go babbling around telling them. Besides, and I could be wrong, but I think that LF wouldn't be so stupid as to trust his plans with whores. But then show LF is just a pimp (like other people have said) compared with book LF.

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- Jaime's opening scene made me sad. I get very :unsure: when proud characters get broken down. I don't think Brienne was being sexist; I think she was just trying to say something that would piss him off.

The best part was when Jaime was fighting in the mud and he dropped his sword. Then he went to pick it up with his stump and was like, "Fuck, I don't have a hand."

Edited by Blue Steel

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I'm not a Ros fan, but i do't get all the hate. She is obviously supposed to replace Alayaya to a degree, with Cersei thinking she was Tyrion's whore, and in the book he had the absurd thought that she was learning to read. That should put to rest all this "whores can't read!" nosense.

And i thought the Pod/whores scene was funny. The continuation was a bit weird, but the Varys getting cut story, combined with the dumbing down of sorcery being associated with red god (Melisandre and Jaqen) is leading me to believe that pod might get his magic dick burnt in a brazier like Varys, courtesy of Lady Stoneheart and the brotherhood, who also worship the red god. Don't know why, just a hunch.

I loved everything Dany this episode, and i'm not a big fan of hers. Dracarys was perfect! Ramsay's creepy look was great, and did he totally change his voice at the end of that scene or is it just me?

Craster's was great too! I think Rast's line about killing Sam soon is forshadowing him as a wight. Instead of small Paul it will be Rast about to kill Sam and Gilly when Coldhand's murder of crows comes to the rescue! I wouldn't worry about Sam the slayer not happening. Fat guy and girl with baby will be slow, Grenn will catch up, see it, and they'll get split up again. Great episode!

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Theon's scene I think they fucked up how he was walking and talking fine. He should have been hobbling badly with Bolton helping him. I couldn't help but notice Theon didn't care his finger/fingernail was missing, he got flayed a bit, and he took a wooden spike through the foot. His transformation should already be halfway through.

well, they got two seasons for torturing theon every once in a while before we get to the actual reek chapters of ADWD.

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On Ros and realism:

We've seen Ros rise from common prostitute to 'Bottom Girl'... and maybe even 'Madam' working under Littlefinger. Neither of these positions is unusual or unrealistic. Also, as a well known brothel owner, it's not unrealistic or even unusual for Littlefinger to be seen with Ros.

Her quick rise to the position is unusual, but that could be justified by her literacy.

The literacy... yes that's a bit out there, but maybe she just had a lot of time and access to Winterfell's library? Okay... it's a stretch.

Her knowledge of Winterfell could also be a factor for Baelysh keeping her close. Maybe it's not Arya but "Sansa" who they send to Winterfell to marry.

And maybe she knows how to read because her father thought her? I'm sure she wasn't born a whore.

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