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The farther we get into this season, the more I think both the Red and Purple weddings are going to happen this year.

I just can't see how, without horribly shorting the PW buildup. Among many other things, we need to be introduced the Red Viper several episodes before the PW happens, or there's no room for Red Viper - Tyrion conversation outside of a jail cell. I won't be surprised if it happens well before episode 9 next season, but I really, really doubt we'll see it this season.

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I loved this episode!

  • Jamie and Brienne get better and better. When he reached for his sword with his handless arm. Heartbreaking! I don't understand how people are bothered by her "bloody woman" comment. What she says about her own sex is true. She doesn't like what mold/stereotype Westerosi society has forced on to women, but to ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist, would take away every last female character's arch in all of ASOIAF since every one of them pretty much defies and fights against it.

  • Varys and the Mail Order Mage was awesome. Tyrion's face as he looks at the holes in the side of the crate......

  • Loved the two levels of Sam this ep: 1. What's his name? Keeps trying, even if he's causing Gilly pain. Then 2. WE HAVE TO GO NOW.

  • Bran's dream - Did anyone else notice how Cat's face got paler, and more grey as the scene went on? And "Promise me!" BRILLIANT!!

  • I LOVE ROS. So she can read. So? There's a million reasons she can read. She wasn't a free-lance whore in Winterfell, she worked at THE BROTHEL just outside the gates. She probably helped the Madame run it, and she taught her. Maester Luwin taught her. Littlefinger hired someone to teach her. No one runs a brothel who can't read, and do math. Finding excuses to hate on Ros is getting so tiresome. Finding excuses to hate on any deviation from the books is exhausting. I don't know how some of you do it.

  • I love Ros with Varys. Of course, any excuse for more Varys is awesome win.

  • I LOVE COCKMASTER POD, no one can figure out why, and everyone wants to know. One of the funniest bits ever. Love it. Hope it goes on forever. "Don't speak..."

  • OMG. jack Gleeson, I shall miss you so much. Please don't stop acting. It's hard to fathom that he can make Joffrey even more loathsome, and pitiful than in the books. I honestly feel bad for him. You see his fear of the crowd. You see him want to be loved, and accepted like Margaery. And yet there's still that horrible glee and plesure he gets from the death and pain of others. So creepy. So epic.

  • Natalie Dormer rocks. Love what they're giving her to do..... The Smiling Black Widow of Westeros.

  • The Sept - what a gorgeous set!

  • Love Dame Rigg and anyone she shares a scene with!

  • Theon made me cry with his, "My real father" comment, Alfie just gets better and better. And Ramsey is going to out-creep Joffrey.

  • Tywin. HFS. "I will."

  • Love the look of hope on Sansa's face at not only the prospect of having a friend, of having that friend be The Queen, but also allowing herself to imagine, even for a moment, the possibility of actually marrying her SuperCrush. That heartbreak will be epic.

  • I will miss the Old Bear so much. Gods that scene was awesome. And I want to stab Rast myself.

  • Beric was awesome.

  • Dany. Emilia was MASTERFUL. The entire scene rocked from start to finish.

Holy shit that was awesome, and it was only episode 4.

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I really liked this episode. Above everything else I loved Dany and the interaction between Varys and the Queen of Thornes. I think show Margaery is much more interesting than her book counterpart, Natalie Dormer is great. Based on Bran's dream I think that Michelle will make an awesome Lady Stoneheart, I'm looking forward to that.

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Am curious In what way do you find her more "realistic"? She's a prostitute that can read and write (that should start cluing you in about the realism aspect. How many smallfolk in a medieval setting actually had this skill?) and now she's ascended to hand of the pimp, to borrow another poster description of her job. How many powerful men go about the city with a prostitute as executive assistant in Westeros?

Actually, she's the madame of the house now. That position is actually a quite established title in medieval times. ( would know, larpd it)

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Oh and also loved that Cat grew paler and paler in Bran's dream. Such a great touch of foreshadowing if non-reader viewers are attentive. And Conleth Hill is perfect as Varys. I loved how they established how dangerous he actually is through the scene with Tyrion. He's not as innocent as one might think and this certainly adds to his mystique.

They are definitely picking up the pace this season, with every character on the show. I really like that the characters on the sidelines are getting bigger roles, they are just as important as the lead characters; they make the game what it is and affect the outcome so much more than one would think at a first glance.

Edited by Peptalk

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Agreed. The question is how far into season 4 will they do the purple wedding? My bet is they'll pad out the first half of the season somewhat, do the purple wedding around episode 6/7 so Tyrion's trial and eventual escape leads us to the privy scene in episode 9? I may be wrong; what does everyone else think?

I personnaly think it will happen earlier. Season 4 will not only be the second half of ASOS. They will begin to dig into AFFC and ADWD. I would place it at the exact middle of the season. Tyrion arc's end will certainly be the privy scene, episode 9, or even 10 (I want Tywin to die as late as possible). But I don"t think this will be the high point of the season (it is in the books, but not in the sense of the RW. The death of Tywin unleashes further chaos in the realm, but no one realises it immediately). This my great question for season 4 : what will be the great moment, after Ned's beheading, Blackwater, and obviously the RW ? I really don't know.

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For the episode in itself, that was close to perfection. I won't repeat what so many of you already said.

1- For locations : the sept is awesome, and I haven't noticed, but in the opening credits, the Twins are already here, when they go from Riverrun to Winterfell. Interesting.

2- For images : the atmosphere in Craster's Keep was just fantastic. The lights and of course the actions were the perfect match.

3- For Varys : I love him. But his scene with the sorcerer felt a bit odd. Varys does nothing without purpose, and he certainly doesn't reveal his personnal life. So was it a way to show the bond between Varys and Tyrion, and prepare the privy scene, and even something more only GRRM and D&D know? I hope so. His meeting with Olenna was great, and his interaction with LF always fascinating. By the way, I do not predict a long life for Ros. LF hates those who try to play with him (except Varys).

4- "I don't distrust you because you're a woman. I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are". Well Tywin, you distrust her because you don't have to trust her. You are the boss, a boss doesn't trust. Love the way he said "All right. Contribute" (subtext : speak your part and let me write my letter to my old friend Walder Frey alone). Tywin's scenes are very well constructed, and now we know that Cersei and Tyrion are on the same level with him, which is a very low one. And of course, who can't wait to see Tywin finally meet his grandson? Joffrey needs a sharp lesson.

5- I was, for the second time of the show, impressed by Brienne, but this time, in an emotional way. "You're a bloody woman". That line is fantastic, and the way she treats Jaime is great. She's really a great character, and Christie a great actress.

6- We finally meet Ramsay. Great scene, with the look in the end (reminded me of Frodo in Mount Doom). Smart move besides from D&D : Joffrey will progressively fade, until he chokes, and by the time we'll have his replacement. And Ramsay is a deal madder than Joffrey.

7- The last branch of the seven pointed star : Daenerys of course. Absolutely brilliant. There is nothing to drop. Dracarys of course, and the Unsullied. But the looks, his speech in Valyrian, the look of amazement/relish/delight on Mormont's and Selmy's face. And the very final shot. Even the music was great.

In the top 5 of all the series. Only two less good scenes : Bran, too short, it just felt they wanted us to remind he existed. Arya. The scene was good, but I don't think they fully succeeded in the introduction of Beric. But I'm sure the trial of next week will erase this hesitation.

And I've seen episode 5 preview. We'll finally really meet Roose. I expect a lot of this scene. "Bolton's silence was a hundred times more threatening than [Locke]'s slobbering malevolence"

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Vogarro's whore was a whore too. Didnt stop her from building a significant enterprise.

Did you read the rest of my post or some of my other posts? You missed my point.

When I said that Ros is a whore, I wasn't saying that she is stupid, incompetent or incapable of anything. What I meant is that she doesn't necessarily HAVE to know how to read (unlike Geisha). Whether you think she is realistic or unrealistic, love her or hate her, you have to admit that she IS ambitious. I believe that Ros is ambitious otherwise, she wouldn't even have moved to KL. I don't think Ros is stupid or that she had problems running the brothel without knowing how to read. Like I said in the rest of my post, just because a person doesn't know how to read, it doesn't mean that he/she is stupid, and you don't need to learn how to read to learn how to count.

The fact that Ros can read is just a little bit ...odd, and came a little bit ... off because it was never established. However, since she is ambitious, she could have learned. I never said that it was impossible for Ros to learn how to read. Maybe Pycelle taught her for her services, or maybe the other girls in the brothel taught her, or maybe some other client taught her, either way who knows?

My problem was with some explanations that some people were giving. For example, someone said that maybe her father taught her. I don't believe this explanation. Since Ros became a whore, I will assume that her father was a common peasant. Normal peasants don't usually know how to read, hence he wouldn't have been able to teach her.

Many people where saying that maybe Lord Baelish taught her. I strongly disagree with this. Chataya cared about her girls. But we've seen that LF doesn't give a shit about his whores. I think that he wouldn't want them to waste time learning to read when they should be learning to how please the clients and making more money. Besides, LF seems to have his office in the brothel. Why would he want the whores to learn how to read and be able to read his notes with his plans and plots, and then go babbling around telling his plans to everyone? And I don't believe that Petyr would be so stupid as to trust his plans with his whores, but then Show!LF is a complete idiot compared with Book!LF.

Edited by Darth Zyroth

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Here are our thoughts, would be good to get your views.

A question that needs answering. Theon told Ramsay about the boys being alive !!!!

That is a massive change from the books.

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Here are our thoughts, would be good to get your views.

A question that needs answering. Theon told Ramsay about the boys being alive !!!!

That is a massive change from the books.

Why is it a massive change? In the books Ramsay as Reek was the one who gave Theon the idea of killing the other kids. In the books the Boltons know that Bran and Rickon are alive.

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Why is it a massive change? In the books Ramsay as Reek was the one who gave Theon the idea of killing the other kids. In the books the Boltons know that Bran and Rickon are alive.

True I forgot about this haha Nice one !

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where do you guys get that Brienne is feminine in the books? She isn't, at all. She has manners and a good upbringing, but she is not a lady.

She has a very feminine personality.

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She has a very feminine personality.

What is a feminine personality? I thought the very idea of preconceived notions of femininity was considered offensive?

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She goes from being a peasant hooker way up in the unsophisticated North(whose top ruler couldn't even handle the Byzantine politics and scheming of the South), to running the biggest whorehouse in the biggest city in Southern Westeros.

She is also recruited by the Spymaster of the kingdom to spy on one of the most cunning and dangerous players of the Game of Thrones. Not only is she successful at this, she makes Littlefinger look like a fool and discovers what is one of his biggest plots(taking Sansa), which arguably makes her smarter than anyone in the books, because nobody caught on to this scheme of Littlefinger's in them.

If she keeps going at this rate, she'll be the first person in Westeros to discover Jon Snow's true parentage.

lol, interesting theory I kind of like it. But more importantly, this is an important deviation from the books, so since Varys, QoT, and Ros all know about LF plan and thus where Sansa disappears to, doesn't this complicate things in the future? Or is everyone just not gonna care that Sansa just disappears after PW?

I guess QoT won't mind and may actually work with LF to make it happen since Sansa runs away with the evidence, but Varys?? Plots on top of Plots at KL. I also think this serves as proof that Ros will go the way of Dontos via LF knowing she was a double agent all along (one can hope).

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One of the best episodes so far. Excellent.

Let's start with the obvious - the Astapor scene was perfect. After a while, I really liked Emilia Clarke's acting. She is a beautiful women, no doubt, but somehow - after season one - she didn't really persuade me that she IS Daenerys, the mother of dragons, the queen, the person who is natural born leader. Up to now. But now, she really sounded right - i hope she will continue to act so. Whole scene was near to perfection, I think, with that music...Phenomenal.

The character of Daenarys does not become a leader until around this time, at least not as confident. This is a thread for those who have read the books, so I hope I am not spoiling this for you, but she is not nearly as confident in herself as they portray until now. And sorry to say it, by the time we reach ADWD in my opinion, she turns into a whiny mess. This was one of my problems with the book. But I think GRRM wanted to remind us that even though she is the Queen of Dragons, she still is a young woman with vulnearbilities and weaknesses. Again, didn't anybody want to see more of the sacking of Astapor??? There hasn't been nearly enough action. It was a cool scene but all we saw was 2 slavers killed, the Slavemaster burned, and then a wave of fire behind Dany's head. I would have liked to see a little more gore and destruction from the wrath of the dragons unleashed on Astapor.

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What is a feminine personality? I thought the very idea of preconceived notions of femininity was considered offensive?

ZING!

I also don't think she has a "feminine" personality, whatever that means.

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Did Catelyn in Brans dream make everyone else think of Lady Stoneheart?

Yeah it really got me thinkin about Lady Stoneheart! I Almost think i saw her wear a scarf in Brans dream, or maybe i just imagined!

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True I forgot about this haha Nice one !

No problem man ;)

Yeah it really got me thinkin about Lady Stoneheart! I Almost think i saw her wear a scarf in Brans dream, or maybe i just imagined!

YES! that was very......creepy. And you're right she was wearing a scarf! YES! Lady Stoneheart! I guess we'll see her at the end of the season, right?

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