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This is the second episode where Brienne has made a comment about women being weak. The first could be seen as striking at Jaime's pride. Here? Internalized Misogyny? Deliberate? Unfortunate? I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it.

Sorry to reach back so far through the thread, but it's mainly cultural, I think. That "woman are weak" is all she's ever heard about her sex, and the women and girls around her are the ones who internalized it and made that characterization a self-fulfilling prophecy. Between the times, the culture, and the lack of an opposing viewpoint or living example (I mean, Nymeria, I guess, so long ago), it must take someone of great strength of character to reject all of that and decide that, if that's what a woman is, she sure as hell wasn't going to be one. Brienne took it upon herself to say that biology is not destiny, and even so, as you see with the icky group wager for maidenhead, and the attempted rapes, her biology sure looks like destiny from where the men are standing. Poor Brienne. I think what she is saying to Jaime is "You sound like the opposite of who you are (weak), and incidentally, that's the opposite of who I am to (woman, shorthand for weak)."

On a darker note: Step one, cut a hole in the box/Step two, put your mage in a box ...

Edited by Gran de Lys

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re: the odd scene with Theon mentioning Ned Stark as his "father" - I feel like in the books, as readers, we only start to come around on liking (or sympathizing with) Theon again after most of his chapters as Reek. In the show I feel like they are trying to force watchers to like him again already. As with many readers those were some of my favorite chapters in the books so I hope they handle them delicately and correctly.

Theon is already broken in ADWD. We do get a lot of this story that is being shown, but it's only in Theon's thoughts. Theon spends a lot of time remembering the torture and torment that Ramsay put him through. The show is showing it chronologically, and keeping Theon in the show.

I don't think it's such a big deal when you start to feel sorry for him. The big deal is that he's the thoroughly broken mess that is Reek 2 years from now.

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Loved this episode. Always love every scene with Jaime and Brienne, but Jack Gleeson was absoulutely wonderful in delivering his opening line about how Rhaenyra was fed to her brother's dragon. He's just so damn awesome at selling psycho.

And I'm loving to watch Cersei turn into her psycho paranoid self too. Some people have been disliking Lena Headey's portrayal of Cersei, but it's starting to show why they chose her now.

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re: the odd scene with Theon mentioning Ned Stark as his "father" - I feel like in the books, as readers, we only start to come around on liking (or sympathizing with) Theon again after most of his chapters as Reek. In the show I feel like they are trying to force watchers to like him again already. As with many readers those were some of my favorite chapters in the books so I hope they handle them delicately and correctly.

There's a lot of hate among fans towards Sandor Clegane for killing a 12-year-old boy suspected of attacking a prince who Sandor was assigned to guard (and, it's implied, killing him on the queen's orders); but Theon does get some sympathy for being tortured, despite his having murdered two younger boys to save face because the Stark children outwitted him. Both actions are reprehensible; but I blame Theon more than I blame Sandor. Although I feel sorry for Theon for being tortured, because I don't think anyone deserves what was done to him, I still want him to pay with his life for the two innocent lives he decided to take.

Alfie Allen did a fine job in his scenes last night, though.

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It's pointless to even try and review this episode after that final scene, all I can think of is:

Fire and Blood

Edited by HouseLark

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i'm confused. do people really believe tywin knows and will be a part of the purple wedding because he told cersei he would do something about joff? why would he remove his own grandson from the throne especially when tommen is so young? he wants to get joffrey in line. that is the only logical thing he could mean by that. he tells cersei he is glad someone can manipulate him not that he needs to go. and he wants to be the one doing the manipulated, not the tyrells.

varys also doesn't know about it. he just wants to keep sansa from littlefinger (sadly not for altruistic reasons) to get back at him. he just wanted to drop the hint to the QoT to have a reason to keep sansa from lf - a marriage.

cat's "promise me" made me think more of lyanna than lady stoneheart. i think we will get access to the backflashes through bran. helps pump up his mysticism to the viewers.

i seem to be in the minority but i really don't like that theon says "my real father lost his head in king's landing." i think that makes no sense and is out of character. theon was a ward. ned treated him well but at arms distance. it would have made more sense to have him say something like the man i wished i was like or something but having a hostage say his captor was a real father is too twisted.

loved, loved, LOVED danaerys. cried for mormont. but also made me realize that being lord commander is a treacherous job. people tend to drop like flies.

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Tywin was not involved in the purple wedding murder, but i believe the writers will want the audience to consider him a suspect in the whodunit over the subsequent episodes.

Edited by polarbear

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Does anyone else think that its weird we've yet to even hear the name "Frey" used this season? Considering the impact they are going to have in only six episodes it seems like an oversight. They've done a good job setting up Boltons and next week Karstark but I wish we heard more about how pissed Late Lord Walder is.

I think its a bit strange. I like that the guy who plays Edmure was also Brutus in the "Rome" series on HBO. He must always play weak characters. Honestly I can't wait until the Red Wedding. They better make that scene gruesome. There seems like there is a lot less gore in this season than the last two. And less sex so far as well. Except for the Podrick thing whcih they couldn't show because he is a minor. Not sure what they are trying to do with that other than some humor, if they weave that into the plot as a Littlefinger scheme or something it would be pretty weak.

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So the sorcerer in the box. Anybody think the show will merge this character with Maester Qyburn?

Qyburn was in Harrenhal when Robb arrived. He was the only survivor.

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Its confirmed that the book was split into 2 seasons. There isnt enough time this season to have all 3 weddings. We still havent met Oberyn and i doubt they are going to rush 3 weddings this seaons only to have tyrions trial drag on for all of next season

We need to have the Lysa/Littlefinger marriage this season too! (doesnt that marriage have a 'colorful' nickname also?). There should be an episode where they crosscut between all four weddings.

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I love this episode! I was worried a bit because The Mutiny and Dracarys are two of my favorite moments in ASOS and I really didn't want them screwed up but...they totally did them justice! Dracarys was by far the best Dany moment of the show so far and The Mutiny was very. very well directed.

10/10! Second best episode of the series, only topped by "Blackwater"

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Alayaya ran her brothel, didn't she?

I hear ya. GRRM wrote some incredible female characters in ASOIAF. It's a shame they aren't translating well onto the show. It seems like they are simply going for the BAMF factor and not complex characters who are not wishing they were born men (Cersei being the exception, she does wish she had been born a man in both 'verses) or have a low opinion of other women. I miss the Mormont women, but who knows what D&D would do with them.

Margaery is more complex on the show than in the books. She and her grandmother are good examples of females who demonstrate their skill and intelligence through mastery of more feminine powers. Instead of just whining about not being born men, they embrace being women. You could probably add Mel to the list as well.

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Burn Gorman was awesome. Why can't he have a proper part?

YES!!! He was seriously scary good. The part going to Craster along the lines of, "you daughter fucking bastard" gave me the creeps.

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Burn Gorman was awesome. Why can't he have a proper part?

I support this notion. If they can work Ros into the last three seasons why not this guy?

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I know about Courtezans/Geisha, but Ros is not one. She is a whore, or well now she is running the business? I don't know exactly how to say it.

Vogarro's whore was a whore too. Didnt stop her from building a significant enterprise.

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Why was there no KG with Joffrey and Cersei at the sept of Baelor? Joffrey steps outside to a crowd of thousands and all I saw guarding him was city watch.

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