Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Katydid

[Book spoilers] Dracarys!

Recommended Posts

It was good, but I thought it was a bit overhyped. People were raving on and on about it in reviews, but when I saw it, I don't know, I just expected more carnage. I understand that they have a budget to consider here, but a few more shots of the Unsullied killing the slavers should have been included IMO. Oh, and the reveal of Daenerys being able to speak Valyrian was great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To everyone:

Sure, sorry but no. I refuse to believe that any slaver could be so willfully blind to the idea that a buyer, particularly one from outside the regular paradigm, would ever try to cross them. It defies my suspension of belief.

Like I said, I'm totally willing to buy into the idea that they wouldn't understand a dragon can't be sold. I'm also willing to buy the idea that they underestimate Dany (they clearly do). And, sure, I'm willing to buy that Unsullied can't be trained to NOT obey whatever order their master gives me. And of course I'm willing to buy that they would do just about anything for a dragon.

What I'm not willing to buy is that would not always have enough other soldiers/slave soldiers on hand to properly defend the city. As is, its like a gun store owner selling a gun and bullets to someone, and not having a shotgun behind the counter in case the customer gets any ideas.

I think you might be assuming a bit actually. What says they hadn't seriously considered that selling all of the unsullied to her might be risky?

When offered a once in a lifetime (at best) opportunity, people have been known to go to great lengths and put themselves at great risk to have it. So why does it have to be the case that they never considered the possibility she might cheat them? Couldn't they have simply concluded that in light of her bemoaning the the way the unsullied are trained and the slaves are treated that she doesn't have the stomach (or if you prefer "the balls") to pull anything.

Also, why can't it be that Dany just played him that well?

She deceived him on the issue of Valyrian, she let him believe she was soft and allowed him to feel comfortable in the stereotype he believed to be true about women. Jorah and Barristan speaking out of turn gave him further indications that she was weak and the fact that they objected to the deal in his eyes was proof that he was taking advantage of her. The point being that people are pre-disposed to believe the things they already want to believe. He wants to believe she is weak and soft, so he does. He wants to believe she lacks the stomach to wage a battle, so he does. He wants to believe he is the one taking advantage of her, so he does. He wants a dragon so bad he'll give up everything for it......so he does....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trying to pinpoint what language it might sound like....It almost sounds Romanian

Well, this made me curious, I am Romanian... I listened to it again, it still sounds a little Greek to me :), but not Romanian :), sorry.

I disagree with your criticism. Astapor is a Mega-city in Bravosian terms. This was simply ONE private merchant and his 8000 man army. Astapor as an entire city has more armed men than that. He (the astapori slaver) had never been in a position to sell his entire army before because he had never been in an opportunity to buy a live dragon - which is worth more than 10-8000 men armies. and he was consumed with the lust for power that the ownership of a dragon brings. So he readily agreed believing he was getting the better of the deal. Why isn't it believable - people in fits of lust do all kinds of things. He didn't even presume she spoke Valyrian. To him she was just a dumb, westerosi whore/bitch who was fruitlessly trying to get her kingdom back. She might conquer some little cities along the way - but Astapor!? - Oh no. And look at what she did - she conquered him and his direct part of Astapor - she didn't go after the entire city. As a matter of fact - she then immediately left the city. So I find it entirely plausible and believable.

Sorry, but you are wrong. It wasn't just one slaver... all the Unsullied traders gathered to pull that number of soldiers. It's written in the book, that when it comes to Unsullied, there aren't different trainers, they all do it combined, they have a standard to do it.... So, Dany was really buying all of the Astapor's soldiers, they had some personal guards, but not Unsullied (as they said, it wasn't wise to mix them with the other slaves).

To everyone:

Sure, sorry but no. I refuse to believe that any slaver could be so willfully blind to the idea that a buyer, particularly one from outside the regular paradigm, would ever try to cross them. It defies my suspension of belief.

Like I said, I'm totally willing to buy into the idea that they wouldn't understand a dragon can't be sold. I'm also willing to buy the idea that they underestimate Dany (they clearly do). And, sure, I'm willing to buy that Unsullied can't be trained to NOT obey whatever order their master gives me. And of course I'm willing to buy that they would do just about anything for a dragon.

What I'm not willing to buy is that would not always have enough other soldiers/slave soldiers on hand to properly defend the city. As is, its like a gun store owner selling a gun and bullets to someone, and not having a shotgun behind the counter in case the customer gets any ideas.

Think about the context. This is Astapor, they have absolutely no enemy since the fall of Valyria. The Ghiskari cities don't fight one another like the Free Cities, they are at peace. They've been selling these Unsullied to the Free Cities, and their wars for centuries, why would he imagine that she would attack them??? It's completely unheard of. And we're not talking about a single trader, in the books, there is a council of slavers... none of them imagine that she could do such a dishonorable thing. Volantis could have been a threat, but they have been ruled by the elephants for a long time, and the Dothraki don't attack the 3 cities in Slaver's Bay, because that is where they sell of their slaves. That is why it's so easy for Yunkai to make a huge alliance against Dany, she's not only fighting against slavery, but she broke the most important rule that governs their life: a fair trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was a damn near perfect scene in an excellent episode. Things are destined to be condensed, since each season is a mere 10 episodes, so I loved how much detail was thrown into this one scene. Everything from Missandei's little jaw drop right when Dany starts speaking Valyrian, to the looks between Barristan and Jorah, the way she tested her army before commencing with Operation: Be A Total Badass... I loved it all.

Dont... feed... the troll....

To be fair: the way some people gripe about any and all changes made in adapting the books to the screen, I kind of can't blame others for taking the troll seriously in this case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Emotionally, I found Dany's speech to the slaves the best part of that scene. Had me tearing up a little bit for some reason. The effects were top-notch, but they were "just" the icing on the cake, what really sold the scene to me was Emilia's performance, especially the seemingly effortless way in which she delivered her Valyrian lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gun salesmen usually aren't allowed to sell bullets to someone immediately after or while someone's purchasing a firearm, for that reason.

Well this actually reinforces the argument that Kraznys didn't implement any common sense safeguards for his particular trade.

Anyways I feel like it's about business and good faith. You don't kill your weapon supplier. They are just a third party in whatever conflict is occurring outside their walls. Can it bite them in the ass? Most certainly. Kinda parallels some real life politics actually. Both blinded by greed and the naivety of good faith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many people complains about how they should have taught the Unsullied to not attack their masters and I get it, but we're talking about broken men who constantly live in fear to be killed by the simplest offense. Some girl with dragons arrive and not only set them free, but also, orders them to kill their previous tortures: it has almost a religious meaning that whatever prayer has been answered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This might have been the best scene in the series so far. Awesome.

As an aside, did anyone else catch the expressions on Jorah and Selmy's faces? No dialogue, but Selmy looked as if he was saying, "yeah, that's how you do it. Nice." While Jorah was, "Hubba hubba, I've got the biggest boner I've ever had right now!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an aside, did anyone else catch the expressions on Jorah and Selmy's faces? No dialogue, but Selmy looked as if he was saying, "yeah, that's how you do it. Nice." While Jorah was, "Hubba hubba, I've got the biggest boner I've ever had right now!"

I loved the look between those two guys at the very end when the unsullied were banging their spears, to me Jorah looked like "this is the greatest thing these eyes have ever seen" and Selmy looked like "Joffrey's ass is....toast".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

re: The look between Jorah and Barristan.

I think this might be the moment when Barristan is completely sure that Dany is of the Rhaegar variety of targaryens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome scene, sort of made Ser Jorah look like an idiot though. In SOS he's the one who advises Dany to pretend not to know Valyrian. He looked shocked in the episode. (I understand this was necessary to make the swerve more effective).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×