[Book Spoilers] Is Loras really the plan?

[Pellaeon]

Or plan the Tyrells and Varys Sansa and Tyrion?

I recall there will be scene with TQoT and Tyrion, then the meeting of Varys and TQoT. Knowing that Loras is gay, or better that they know, I would say they just putting the plot up to force Tywin to act.

Something like this: -pretend to want to marry Sansa to Loras -> tell Lord Tywin -> he acts -> Sansa marries Tyrion -> LF doesn't get the North ->maybe potential ally (The scene with Tyrion and Varys. Tyrion want revenge and varys is happy to help him because it suits his plans in the long term)

I just mean in the show, is Tywin actually played by them?

What do you think?

[Pinkie Baelish]

I think Loras is the plan. Rather than include Willas, the writers have decided to take a shortcut and just use Loras instead. Which makes Sansa's situation only worse when she finds out she has to marry the Imp instead of the Knight of Flowers.

[Delmas]

yup sansa clearly has a lust for loras, I dont think the same can be said for Tyrion.

If you are asking whether tyrells planned on her marrying tyrion that is a big fat no, Tywin undermines their plans in an attempt to keep them from growing too strong

[StannisandDaeny]

Tywin undermines their plans in an attempt to keep them from growing too strong

I see what you did there!

[Delmas]

I see what you did there!

Hahah the growing strong pun was entirely by accident

[Kernest]

Yeah, it's smarter to use Loras than Willas, though it's not clear yet if they're removing Mace Tyrells other sons completely, because that'd make Loras the heir to Highgarden...

It seems that rather soon the Sansa/Tyrion marriage is happening, and they might even make Loras a member of the Kingsguard at the same time so that it'll match the books when we come to Feast and Dance.

[Alexander Stark]

Yeah thats alwys a criticism of the show for non-readers that it has too many characters, you need to kind of keep it down, I doubt willas will become important even in the books so they're right to ommit him and say Loras. Though when she is married to Tyrion then Loras should get his white cloak and Garlan should be introduced because he is my favourite minor character

[Loras Stan]

Yeah thats alwys a criticism of the show for non-readers that it has too many characters, you need to kind of keep it down, I doubt willas will become important even in the books so they're right to ommit him and say Loras. Though when she is married to Tyrion then Loras should get his white cloak and Garlan should be introduced because he is my favourite minor character

This is what would actually be nice, but Garlan has not been cast, and the current S3 family tree for the Tyrells on the HBO website only has two children. And if "Sansa's place would be at Highgarden" as Margaery said...that means Loras is the heir.

[rejndjer]

there's one thing i don't understand, how is she gonna marry loras if he's member of KG?

[Lord Varys]

Choosing Loras as Sansa's match really is stupid. I did not think I'd mind that all that much, but considering that both Varys and Olenna are supposed to be shrewd and clever in the show I don't see how they would ever consider a match between a straight girl and gay man a good move. Especially Lady Olenna would arrange her very own domestic tragedy this way! Sansa won't adore Loras anymore after she has found out about his sexual preferences. A much better idea would have been to make Sansa believe they were about to betroth her to Loras but were instead trying to secure her for Willas.

As to the other Tyrell brothers: I guess they are still around. Loras will eventually join the Kingsguard, and then he'll end up ghastly burned and half-dead. Which would effectively leave Mace Tyrell without male heir. I don't see that happening, especially since both Willas and Garlan may play important roles later on.

[The Unborn]

He is not yet a member of the KG....

[BillBones]

there's one thing i don't understand, how is she gonna marry loras if he's member of KG?

He'll probably become KG in order to avoid marrying her.

Edit: Damn Unborn..

[Alexander Stark]

This is what would actually be nice, but Garlan has not been cast, and the current S3 family tree for the Tyrells on the HBO website only has two children. And if "Sansa's place would be at Highgarden" as Margaery said...that means Loras is the heir.

Ah what a shame. I take it then that Loras will do all that Garlan (allegedly) did. That should win him some fans

[Tywin's bastard]

Choosing Loras as Sansa's match really is stupid. I did not think I'd mind that all that much, but considering that both Varys and Olenna are supposed to be shrewd and clever in the show I don't see how they would ever consider a match between a straight girl and gay man a good move. Especially Lady Olenna would arrange her very own domestic tragedy this way! Sansa won't adore Loras anymore after she has found out about his sexual preferences. A much better idea would have been to make Sansa believe they were about to betroth her to Loras but were instead trying to secure her for Willas.

As to the other Tyrell brothers: I guess they are still around. Loras will eventually join the Kingsguard, and then he'll end up ghastly burned and half-dead. Which would effectively leave Mace Tyrell without male heir. I don't see that happening, especially since both Willas and Garlan may play important roles later on.

Why wouldn't they match up a gay man with a woman? You do realize that all nobility needs to marry, right? Furthermore it never has anything whatsoever to do with happy marriages, it's about alliances and power. And in what way would anyone care if Sansa isn't happy with her marriage after it's done? They want her claim to the North, they aren't trying to set up a match making service. The Tyrell's aren't a bunch of friendly angels, they are as devious as everyone else and as soon as the marriage is done their plans would be complete.

And even if we go by the books, Sansa would rather be married to a gay Loras than his cripple brother. She wouldn't be happy either way but at least she'd have her ideal image to show to others, even if it's a false one.

[Bannerman918]

Hahah the growing strong pun was entirely by accident

hahaa, you should have just owned it

[Greywolf2375]

there's one thing i don't understand, how is she gonna marry loras if he's member of KG?

They may do the same thing that happened with Jaime - have the idea of the KG appointment come from the Lannisters/Joffrey so that the Tyrells almost couldn't turn it down. Based on the conversation between Cersei and daddy dearest they may see the same opportunity and both push forward the Tyrion marriage as well as a perfectly good reason to join the KG.

The gap would be that would leave the Tyrells with no heir to Highgarden, which does seem to be a problem. I definitely would have preferred they just have the throwaway line of her marrying Willas instead of Loras, but we'll see how they handle it.

[Lord Varys]

But Lady Olenna's major concern beside the advancement of House Tyrell is the well-being of the members of her family. That's why Joffrey has to die, after all. To ensure that the alliance between Casterly Rock and Highgarden is going to work, not to terminate it.

And Loras won't be happy in a marriage with Sansa Stark. Neither will she. And if TV Loras truly turns out to be the heir to Highgarden, Sansa would be the mother to Mace Tyrell's grandchildren, including the next Lord of Highgarden. That is, as long as the marriage between Sansa and Loras is not going to be a marriage on paper. If Loras is the heir to Highgarden, he has to consummate his marriage. And an unhappy Lady Sansa of Highgarden could become a great problem for House Tyrell later on, if she starts to entertain herself with real men, ends up making fun of her effeminate husband, and so on. She could easily become a second Cersei.

Loras cannot be the heir to Highgarden, by the way. Neither Mace nor Olenna would have allowed Loras to join Renly's Kingsguard if he had been Mace's only son. Nor would they allowed him to enter into a long-term homosexual relationship when he has to secure the continuation of the main line of House Tyrell. It just doesn't make any sense. And the smart move of the Willas plot in the book was that Sansa would have been married to the eldest Tyrell son. Willas would have been Lord of Highgarden and Lord Protector of the North, and his eldest son heir to Highgarden and the North!

[Sun]

Yep. No mention of any other brother in the show, so Loras is it. Loras is not a member of the KG, yet. My guess Tywin will make him one in order to scuttle the marriage.

[stunningsteve]

In my mind the more interesting question concerning this topic is: Why did D&D let Varys propose it to the QoT?

One reason is obviously to show that Varys wants to cross Littlefinger's plans. But there might be another one. Varys knows that Loras is gay and propably would not consumate the marriage and so it could be nullified. Furthermore the Tyrells have always been quite loyal to the Targaryens. So he might give her to Loras to keep her safe from the Lannisters and LF but still useful for a possible later marriage. This might be a first setup for an Aegon-Sansa storyline.

[Warrior Queen]

I like that the show set it up this way.

Sansa has had a crush on Loras since season one. It way more heartbreaking for her to first her she is going to marry her perfect Knight of Flowers, and than be forced to marry the imp.

Plus it makes this line so much better. And even more painful.

In the dark, I am the Knight of Flowers

I have a feeling that Garlan won't make the show. I think they'll keep Willas for later on. The story of him getting crippled contributes to the fact that the Tyrell's and the Martell's don't like each other.