JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Sansa and Cat definitely inspire a bizarre amount of hate and blame on various internet communities, it's a phenomenon I've never quite understood. It's disappointing but whatever, you can't let random peoples' weird opinions alter your enjoyment of a character or story.Because they aren't the epitome of the warrior goddess that some other female characters have been. Odd, in a world when we fight for acceptance, many still aren't comfortable with women using their brains rather than their muscles or charms to survive instead of fighting. Sansa would be an idiot if she dares to contradict the Lannister. Perhaps many of her "fans" would be more pleased if she tries to escape KL just to be caught half and hour later and beheaded next to her father because "at least she was brave". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Sansa and Cat definitely inspire a bizarre amount of hate and blame on various internet communities, it's a phenomenon I've never quite understood. It's disappointing but whatever, you can't let random peoples' weird opinions alter your enjoyment of a character or story.The problem is that it seems like the TV producers are the ones setting up that reaction by the deletion of a moment of character development for Sansa and their complete whitewashing of any flaws of Tyrion thus creating little apparent reason for why Sansa should reject him or why viewers should be worried for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knight Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 i would still have liked it if they intoduced willas's existence, he should be important in the last books and thus in the series too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loras Stan Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 While Loras is portrayed as gay, maybe he's bisexual and could get the deed done well enough to create an heir (unlike Renly)A gay man can do the deed as well. It might just take some 'fluffing', but there are plenty of men who are homosexual who end up having children with women through intercourse. And honestly? Loras doesn't care about Sansa. He tolerates her, he plays nice, and would do so most likely in a marriage, but they both wouldn't be happy. Sansa has created a idea of Loras in her head that is quite far off from the man he is. Loras? In the book joins the KG not just to protect Margaery, but to make sure that he never has to marry, and has an excuse for never being involved in another relationship. At this juncture, after Renly's death, he wants *no* part in anything that has to do with marriage/faking love/affection.Obviously that's not what happened on the show (as he's the heir), but still, as happy as Sansa is, Loras is going to be the exact opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasrith Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Sansa has been trashed over the years in this forum for not being nicer to Tyrion when they were married, now that tv!Tyrion is so well loved, she is going to get slaughtered.But we won't know if she isn't nice to him in the tv version yet... Characters have been altered for the tv plot, why not their relationship? I'm in no way claiming that she'll be thrilled, they just might tone her down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound's She-wolf Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 But we won't know if she isn't nice to him in the tv version yet... Characters have been altered for the tv plot, why not their relationship?I'm in no way claiming that she'll be thrilled, they just might tone her down a bit.I should have put nice in quotes. I think she has been unfairly condemned by certain segments of this fandom because she did not fall in love with her "savior" and didn't sleep with him and didn't see him as some great white knight. I think she was as nice as a scared, imprisoned and abused child could be but for some people, it was not enough.You are right, we have no idea what D&D will do to her character, it just seems like a big set up, that in the tv show, Tyrion is such a fan favorite, that if she rejects him she will be again called everything from shallow, to stupid to prejudiced against little people (it has all happened before so it can happen again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moët Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 It's actually brilliant to have Sansa think she's marrying Loras, rather than someone neither she, nor the audience will ever meet. And there's no way to see through her eyes in the show like there is in the books. It was established in season one that she has a SuperCrush on Loras, so her emotional crash on having to marry Tyrion will be epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Snow Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 It's actually brilliant to have Sansa think she's marrying Loras, rather than someone neither she, nor the audience will ever meet. And there's no way to see through her eyes in the show like there is in the books.It was established in season one that she has a SuperCrush on Loras, so her emotional crash on having to marry Tyrion will be epic.That look of happiness and hope in her eyes should be enough to make anyone feel badly for her. No matter what we know about Loras, the fact is that she's madly in love with him and this is her dream that's being dangled in front of her. Either way is a lose-lose for Sansa, but she doesn't know it. Oh, Sansa, dear, you're barking up the wrong tree. In a few different ways. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moët Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 No I didn't forget that. However, despite that she didn't have many other choices and was desperate to get out of King's Landing, we did see in her thought process that she would try to make the best of the situation. She wanted to be a good wife to someone whom she had never met and had learned that he was crippled, which was a sign of her maturing and learning to accept a situation that was not her ideal anymore. We won't get that with this change to her marrying Loras.Indeed, however, that was all we learn in her head, from her POV chapter in the book. Much harder to portray in the show, and far less dramatic than her heartbreak will be not actually marrying Loras.LOVE your Cupid and Psyche avatar!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moët Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 The problem is that it seems like the TV producers are the ones setting up that reaction by the deletion of a moment of character development for Sansa and their complete whitewashing of any flaws of Tyrion thus creating little apparent reason for why Sansa should reject him or why viewers should be worried for her.Please stop projecting your thoughts and feelings on to "the viewers." You only speak for yourself, not the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unborn Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I don't get why all the "Loras is the heir in the show" since they never said that. Marg only said that her place would be at Highgarden if she married Loras, since its kinda true, he has no seat of power, where would he go ?And Marg can't very well tell her "hey we want to marry you to our gay brother and when Robb dies you'll have a claim on Winterfell so the Tyrells will also get WF!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loras Stan Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I don't get why all the "Loras is the heir in the show" since they never said that. Marg only said that her place would be at Highgarden if she married Loras, since its kinda true, he has no seat of power, where would he go ?And Marg can't very well tell her "hey we want to marry you to our gay brother and when Robb dies you'll have a claim on Winterfell so the Tyrells will also get WF!" Loras's place is protecting Margaery, in the Kings Guard. Which I know, I know, hasn't happened in the show yet.Also, http://viewers-guide.../houses/tyrell/ this leads people to believe that they have completely cut Garlan and Willas out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrinceOfSunspear Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I hate this whole Loras/Sansa thing. To me its unnecessary. I understand that there are some slow people who might not grasp the concept of having more than 1 son or a show having a lot of characters but to me its not staying true to the nature of the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Please stop projecting your thoughts and feelings on to "the viewers." You only speak for yourself, not the rest of us.I am responding directly to some posts that some TV only viewers have made on the TWOP forums, moreover as others have mentioned there has been past history where she received sharp criticism for her actions regarding the marriage with Tyrion. Therefore, it is not wrong to hypothesis that there might be a negative reaction from some members of the viewing base to her actions when reflecting on how they have currently set things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Pipes Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Truth be told, a Loras not in the Kingsguard makes the most sense to marry Sansa. Willas is the heir of Highgarden. While marrying the oldest daughter (and suspected heir) of House Stark is a logical marriage, he's not going up to the North. Garlan is married and about to take over Brightwater keep, he's not going up North. Loras is a knight of some fame but he's got no lands. He could go up to Winterfell and rule in Sansa's name. Although I can't see the Greatjohn kneeling to a guy called The Knight of Flowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiff_pirates Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I think we're missing the intentions of the Tyrells and Lannisters regarding power.Both know that Sansa is the key to the North (as Varys mentions in this episode), so having her at Highgarden would be preferable to the Tyrells.Loras is not yet a member of the Kingsguard, in the books he is only just recently a sworn knight of the Kingsguard before Jamie returns. This means there is an opening for him to marry Sansa. We've seen previously that Margaery and Mace Tyrell had direct plans for Margaery as Queen (whoever her partner King may have been). Having the same intentions for powerful positions through Loras seems to be legitimate. Also, Sansa would never dismiss an offer like that.Unfortunately, Tywin catches wind of the scheme and counters the proposition with the immediate marriage to Tyrion. The scene between Tyrion and Tywin in Episode 2 hinted at a "use" for Tyrion, which book readers know the outcome is their marriage.Tywin basically then reserves the Stark/North legacy for the Lannisters. He does this by having Cersei request him to join the KG, to which Loras cannot decline. Essentially it does give Loras a 'fly on the wall' position for small council meetings and royal secrets etc, which is why he takes the position tooLoras is the vessel for Sansa's title to the Tyrell's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unborn Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Loras's place is protecting Margaery, in the Kings Guard. Which I know, I know, hasn't happened in the show yet.Also, http://viewers-guide.../houses/tyrell/ this leads people to believe that they have completely cut Garlan and Willas out.The guide is there to help people, but it's irrelevant in this. Shireen wasn't mentionned once in S2, people tought for sure she was cut, but time proved them wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 It does look Like Mace Tyrell will only have one son, just like Davos seems to only have one son. That's fine for the current situation, because it makes Loras heir to Highgarden, and the Tyrell plan was to have Sansa marry the heir to Highgarden. I do wonder what the Tyrell's will do for an heir once Loras joins the KG though, which they surely will have him do in the show. I suppose Margaery's 2nd born son would become heir to Highgarden in the TV version if she ever gets around to having any children. Though I suppose technically the heir to the throne can also be the heir to the Wardenhip of one of the 7Ks. Having no heir to Highgarden other than Marg does put the Lannisters too uncomfortably close to running the Reach once Mace is dead and gone. Though the story is running out of Lannisters who have any claim on titles as fast as anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I think Mace has other sons. There's just no need to mention them just yet unless they might introduce them soon or it's absolutely necessary. Loras x Sansa makes a lot of sense since he's not in the KG at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieAntoinette Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yeah, it's smarter to use Loras than Willas, though it's not clear yet if they're removing Mace Tyrells other sons completely, because that'd make Loras the heir to Highgarden...It seems that rather soon the Sansa/Tyrion marriage is happening, and they might even make Loras a member of the Kingsguard at the same time so that it'll match the books when we come to Feast and Dance.This is one of the changes I don't mind. The show already has so many characters crammed into 10 episodes, I'm fine that they go with Loras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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