[Book spoilers] Dracarys is perfect but...

[greywindsrage]

To start off I'd like to state that just like pretty much everyone else, I loved the scene.

I had chills running down my spine when she started speaking High Valyrian and I went crazy when the time for Dracarys came. I loved the way Emilia acted and how her Valyrian was close to perfection.

I want to state though, that I really didn't like the fact that Kraznys just stood there after receiving the dragon.

Obviously, it's cool right? You get one of the first dragons hatched in ages? But he just stands there, watching the dragon, for such a long time... Dany has time for her whole "zen moment" and ordering the Unsullied to march and such while he just stands there.

Now don't get me wrong. I know there are arguments like; "He just got a dragon, he's shocked." and "He made a businessdeal so it's normal to wait for a while." or something.

The other part of me though, feels like he KNEW that the dragon would be very wild and possibly angry for having to leave it's mother. I think the actual Kraznys would first of all lock the dragon in a cage (suppose he lost his grip and the dragon flew away?) and he would also leave the scene of trade pretty quickly. It's made clear how he has no respect whatsoever for Dany so once the deal is done he wants nothing else from her. I just don't think he would stand there, still and silent, waiting for something to happen.

It's just something that bugged me while watching it and I was wondering if there was anyone else with the same feeling.

He's a slave master who was so greedy to have a dragon that for anyone would be something priceless. His lust for power and lack of respect for her blinded him from the fact that he's in over his head. When he says "The bitch has her army" he doesn't even realise that he's fucked.because he's too concerned with this dragon he has never seen before in his life. He sees power before him ,basically in his grasp and can't control it . His expressions in the scene clearly shows this especially when he takes the chain from her. However, when she says " A dragon is not a slave" thats when he realises he's FUCKED.

[Runaway Penguin]

The scene was well written and exactly showed the slave master's complacency. Add to that the distressed cries of Drogon when he was chained and given to a stranger... Very emotional scene.

Kraznys was unable to go anywhere, Drogon won't come. He was preoccupied by the struggling lizard and ignored "the bitch from westeros"... Until it was too late.

[lannistergold]

The fact that the guy was prepared to sell his entire army says enough. He was suicidally overconfident, and/or didn't think that Dany had it in her to command an army. His ignorance about dragon behaviour was the most excusable error of his.

[Runaway Penguin]

He didn't care about Dany being able to command or not, he was just too wrapped up in his game to realise that someone might want to smash the board.

Happens in real life as well. WWII is good example, Stalin was so wrapped up in his plans he didn't realise that Hitler's next target is USSR and ignored warnings; Allies initially uderestimated Germany and Germans, for the most part, underestimated the power of Britain and USA - because in both cases, part of the power came from smashing the board and playing a new game.

[Rhaenys Sand]

I think it was a very arrogant move not to have a cage ready and I think he had the delusions of taming a dragon just like he 'tamed' the unsullied. And I think it was a very wondrous moment for him, too. Sort of thinking "Ah, it'd be cool to have a dragon, I'll be almighty" and then realizing "Oh wait, I have a dragon, an actual dragon, hold on, what now?"

And of course halfway through Dany's big moment we can see how he is struggling because he can't control the dragon.

This is a bit silly, but I felt like he expected a Harry Potter moment. You know when Potter first held the wand in the wand shop and lights started flickering and there was a wind machine involved and oh the magic. I think Kraznys expected something like that, a magical moment that shows how powerful he is, because it is a dragon after all. So I felt he acted like a person who is stupid and power-hungry and arrogant and at the same time too stunned to realize what is going on around him and I think that's pretty much the character.

:bowdown:

[Miodrag]

What bothered me most was the fact that, of all those dozens (hundreds? thousands? can’t tell who’s CGI, and who’s a real person in front of the camera) of people participating in the scene, only two and a half were actually acting: Emilia, Kraznys and, to a certain extent, Jorah Mormont (he did bring on his disturbed/worried face at the beginning, and later nodded with his head few times). Everyone else, Selmy included, looked like they’re just standing there and waiting for the shooting to end. I mean, Selmy did absolutely nothing besides pulling his sword out at one moment.

Actors and stunts are hardly the ones to take the blame for this. As it seems, they simply weren’t told to do anything, which is a pity. Wouldn’t it be exciting, cinematic, dramatic, if some of the slavemasters’ guards tried to attack Danaerys, only to be denied by Barristan, or Jorah, or both? Wouldn’t it be better than seeing the surreal site of Danaerys just standing there while something burns/explodes behind her?

All in all, it wasn’t such a bad scene. It was saved by some nice wording (I agree with those who think that this wasn’t among the smartest twists created by GRRM, but the words he puts in characters’ mouths are traditionally great), and by Emilia’s electrifying performance. There was, however, too much clumsiness in the Unsullied charge at the slavemasters.

[Tone]

Also would have liked to see more of the massacre but understand they are prob saving the budget for the battle at the Wall.

Emilia nailing Valyrian totally was the highlight of this scene for me. I was so excited to see how they were going to do this scene, being one of my favorite moments in the books.

[Runaway Penguin]

Well, everyone standing around until the time came was kinda point of the entire scene. Both Selmy and Mormont do react to the defelopment, on the other hand Selmy does it more subtly - after all he is the one cautious about Dany ;)

[BlueDragon]

What bothered me most was the fact that, of all those dozens (hundreds? thousands? can’t tell who’s CGI, and who’s a real person in front of the camera) of people participating in the scene, only two and a half were actually acting: Emilia, Kraznys and, to a certain extent, Jorah Mormont (he did bring on his disturbed/worried face at the beginning, and later nodded with his head few times). Everyone else, Selmy included, looked like they’re just standing there and waiting for the shooting to end. I mean, Selmy did absolutely nothing besides pulling his sword out at one moment.

Actors and stunts are hardly the ones to take the blame for this. As it seems, they simply weren’t told to do anything, which is a pity. Wouldn’t it be exciting, cinematic, dramatic, if some of the slavemasters’ guards tried to attack Danaerys, only to be denied by Barristan, or Jorah, or both? Wouldn’t it be better than seeing the surreal site of Danaerys just standing there while something burns/explodes behind her?

All in all, it wasn’t such a bad scene. It was saved by some nice wording (I agree with those who think that this wasn’t among the smartest twists created by GRRM, but the words he puts in characters’ mouths are traditionally great), and by Emilia’s electrifying performance. There was, however, too much clumsiness in the Unsullied charge at the slavemasters.

There are bugetary limits to what they can do. I don't think it makes sense for those of us who don't know what things cost or what the budget is to claim they should do this or that. It is just a waste of time to even think like that.

I completely disagree about Jorah and Selmy taking an active part. Watching the guys fail around with their sabres is totally besides the point: after a dragon queen has just won a tremendous victory and lost nothing on her side.

The point of what is happening is that Dany is in total control and that she doesn't even need her help at the moment because she has so timed her moves precisely which is one reason why Jorah and Selmy could not know. She did not want their body language to send out a tense signal. Instead, they are standing there stupified that she is actually going through with the trade. They are crestfallen; it shows ad that is a good thin.

And had they been twirling around there would have been that perfect moment when they look at each other in wonder and both know that they are serving the most badass Targareyn evah!!!!!

The unsullied's intuition about her adds to the power. I could care less if Jorah went toe to toe with a slaver's lieutenant.

[boojam]

What bothered me most was the fact that, of all those dozens (hundreds? thousands? can’t tell who’s CGI, and who’s a real person in front of the camera) of people participating in the scene, only two and a half were actually acting: Emilia, Kraznys and, to a certain extent, Jorah Mormont (he did bring on his disturbed/worried face at the beginning, and later nodded with his head few times). Everyone else, Selmy included, looked like they’re just standing there and waiting for the shooting to end. I mean, Selmy did absolutely nothing besides pulling his sword out at one moment.

Actors and stunts are hardly the ones to take the blame for this. As it seems, they simply weren’t told to do anything, which is a pity. Wouldn’t it be exciting, cinematic, dramatic, if some of the slavemasters’ guards tried to attack Danaerys, only to be denied by Barristan, or Jorah, or both? Wouldn’t it be better than seeing the surreal site of Danaerys just standing there while something burns/explodes behind her?

All in all, it wasn’t such a bad scene. It was saved by some nice wording (I agree with those who think that this wasn’t among the smartest twists created by GRRM, but the words he puts in characters’ mouths are traditionally great), and by Emilia’s electrifying performance. There was, however, too much clumsiness in the Unsullied charge at the slavemasters.

You know that scene is only about 10 (it could be 12 min.) long and when , on a show like this one has to jam twice as much action into half as much time in fewer takes than one can do with a big budget film (I know HBO spends a lot on each episode but 6 or 7 mil only goes so far) then economies have to made.

By the by even tho you can see them in the back as Drogon is brought in , in that cage, her Dothraki bloodrides (well two of them) were nearer her than Barristan, or Jorah , alas they were 'off-camera' when all the action when down.

In the book there are her three canonical bloodriders , in fact I think other Dothraki warriors too.

I heard they had 1000 extras to play Unsullied, which is a lot these days, and VFX-ing that many to be 8000 is just a matter of money.

I think only about 100 of the extras were trained to do 'stunt' work. I don't think a single one of them was a trained actor. I don't even know if the actor who plays Grey Worm was in the crowd.

Did seem the spear and sword action was abbreviated , but that was a timing and budget problem, at least it did not look like that silly movie 300 with god awful comic book action sequences.

By the by did anyone notice that when they rode out of Astapor that back there in the back were at least three (or maybe more) Dothraki bloodriders? Long time since we have seen them.

[bobbybuilderton]

I don't know what needs to happen for my boyfriend to be impressed by this show. He's already forgotten this scene and only remembers the mutiny at Craster's Keep.

I think he'll be impressed come episode 9. But really though, it's all a matter of taste I guess.

I just wanted to comment on Dany's choice here because I didn't want to make a new thread...but I can't wait for the non-readers to see the fallout of her actions. I feel like a lot of people are in the same place as a lot of book readers were after this scene, which is feeling that she is ready to head to Westeros and kick some ass. But of course, this is somewhat close to real life and taking down a slave trade is actually kind of a big deal.

I've seen so many fans of the show saying "Aw yeah, Joffrey better watch out!" and "Dany's ready to get to Westeros now and take the throne! Can't wait to see who she'll team up with" and it's just really amusing for me because even when reading the book, I had a bad feeling about it. Yes, it was an awesome scene but when you're in the moment you don't realize the gravity of what she's just started. It's great and noble and everything to want to free slaves but she just waltzes in and tries to "fight the power" single-handedly. It's like she thinks she's a god just because she has dragons and there will be no repercussions. She doesn't think of the fact that sometimes people who are freed don't want to be because it's all they know. She doesn't think of the fact that hitting someone's wallet has always been the surest way to piss them off, next to insulting their religious beliefs. Basically, it was immature even if it came from a place of kindness. And because it comes from a place of kindness and Kraznys was so horrible, we're totally on her side...until we realize that it's not as simple as "this is wrong and I will stop it."

Can't wait to see their reactions.

[GoldenFleece]

I think he'll be impressed come episode 9. But really though, it's all a matter of taste I guess.

I just wanted to comment on Dany's choice here because I didn't want to make a new thread...but I can't wait for the non-readers to see the fallout of her actions. I feel like a lot of people are in the same place as a lot of book readers were after this scene, which is feeling that she is ready to head to Westeros and kick some ass. But of course, this is somewhat close to real life and taking down a slave trade is actually kind of a big deal.

I've seen so many fans of the show saying "Aw yeah, Joffrey better watch out!" and "Dany's ready to get to Westeros now and take the throne! Can't wait to see who she'll team up with" and it's just really amusing for me because even when reading the book, I had a bad feeling about it. Yes, it was an awesome scene but when you're in the moment you don't realize the gravity of what she's just started. It's great and noble and everything to want to free slaves but she just waltzes in and tries to "fight the power" single-handedly. It's like she thinks she's a god just because she has dragons and there will be no repercussions. She doesn't think of the fact that sometimes people who are freed don't want to be because it's all they know. She doesn't think of the fact that hitting someone's wallet has always been the surest way to piss them off, next to insulting their religious beliefs. Basically, it was immature even if it came from a place of kindness. And because it comes from a place of kindness and Kraznys was so horrible, we're totally on her side...until we realize that it's not as simple as "this is wrong and I will stop it."

Can't wait to see their reactions.

Yeah maybe Lincoln shouldn't have tried to emancipate the slaves because it led to one of the bloodiest conflicts the US has ever seen on American soil and ruined the Southern economy that is still felt to this day. There were black slaves in the Southern US that didn't want to be free - majority did of course. But people celebrate and idolise the man because he did emancipate the slaves and ended slavery in America because it was the right thing to do. Dany could have sacked the slave cities and moved on, that was the easy shorter path, it would have been selfish, it would have been logical if all she cared about was the iron throne. Yet she didn't.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I think he'll be impressed come episode 9. But really though, it's all a matter of taste I guess.

I just wanted to comment on Dany's choice here because I didn't want to make a new thread...but I can't wait for the non-readers to see the fallout of her actions. I feel like a lot of people are in the same place as a lot of book readers were after this scene, which is feeling that she is ready to head to Westeros and kick some ass. But of course, this is somewhat close to real life and taking down a slave trade is actually kind of a big deal.

I've seen so many fans of the show saying "Aw yeah, Joffrey better watch out!" and "Dany's ready to get to Westeros now and take the throne! Can't wait to see who she'll team up with" and it's just really amusing for me because even when reading the book, I had a bad feeling about it. Yes, it was an awesome scene but when you're in the moment you don't realize the gravity of what she's just started. It's great and noble and everything to want to free slaves but she just waltzes in and tries to "fight the power" single-handedly. It's like she thinks she's a god just because she has dragons and there will be no repercussions. She doesn't think of the fact that sometimes people who are freed don't want to be because it's all they know. She doesn't think of the fact that hitting someone's wallet has always been the surest way to piss them off, next to insulting their religious beliefs. Basically, it was immature even if it came from a place of kindness. And because it comes from a place of kindness and Kraznys was so horrible, we're totally on her side...until we realize that it's not as simple as "this is wrong and I will stop it."

Can't wait to see their reactions.

You can't change the world without conflict, pain, and death.

[bobbybuilderton]

Yeah maybe Lincoln shouldn't have tried to emancipate the slaves because it led to one of the bloodiest conflicts the US has ever seen on American soil and ruined the Southern economy that is still felt to this day. There were black slaves in the Southern US that didn't want to be free - majority did of course. But people celebrate and idolise the man because he did emancipate the slaves and ended slavery in America because it was the right thing to do. Dany could have sacked the slave cities and moved on, that was the easy shorter path, it would have been selfish, it would have been logical if all she cared about was the iron throne. Yet she didn't.

Didn't say she shouldn't have done it. Saying it was immature because she failed to think of the consequences. She assumed everyone would rejoice and the bad guys would just bow in fear because of her dragons. And I personally want to see the reactions of people who didn't think of the consequences either. Actions have consequences, regardless of how righteous they were. Something Dany failed to acknowledge and so does the audience because we are caught up in seeing the protagonist succeed.

[GoldenFleece]

Didn't say she shouldn't have done it. Saying it was immature because she failed to think of the consequences. She assumed everyone would rejoice and the bad guys would just bow in fear because of her dragons. And I personally want to see the reactions of people who didn't think of the consequences either. Actions have consequences, regardless of how righteous they were. Something Dany failed to acknowledge and so does the audience because we are caught up in seeing the protagonist succeed.

Oh definitely, Dany can be very naïve. She is a young teenage girl after all - with zero training for power (unlike Robb, Joffrey, Aegon etc). These things happened in medieval Europe quite a lot. While we would question following a 13 year old in battle or taking instruction from one, medieval people didn't think twice about it, partly because people died very young and so had to grow up all that quicker, partly because of the feudal system. ADWD was all about letting the girl go and letting the woman be born.

[bobbybuilderton]

Oh I also didn't say she should have sacked the cities and left. My whole point is that she did not think of the consequences of sacking the city at all until after the fact. Oh hey wait a minute I have all these people and it'll probably be pretty hard to feed them and keep them safe. Oh hey maybe people who have been slaves all their lives will need an adjustment period. Oh hey maybe the slave trade is much bigger than I am and people will be seriously pissed that they're losing money. Oh hey maybe some will see this as an attack on the very foundation of their culture.

What she did came from a good place. She has a kind heart and that's partly why Jorah is in love with her. But she was naive to just assume things would be great and impulsively act when she saw something she didn't like. I don't think she shouldn't have done it, I think she should have done it with a bit more forethought. It wasn't thought through well enough and we don't realize that in the moment, so we think next stop: Westeros. But then we're like oh...right.

To summarize, go ahead and take the high road and the road less traveled, that's very commendable. But be smart about it and realistically prepare for how hard that will be. Dany did not. Continuing the American slavery subject, part of the tension in the civil war was that the south was warning that it would severely cripple their economy. It wasn't done lightly. These were adults who knew what the price would be for doing what they believed was right. Dany, on the other hand, has inherited a bit of her brother's delusions in regards to the way people see their family and heritage.

I think Daenerys is one of the characters to have developed a lot from when we first met her, and for that I think she's an interesting character and all I meant is that I look forward to the "unsullied" fans reactions to her decision to stay behind. It's unexpected but at the same time you're kicking yourself because you're like "well duh she has a situation to deal with, how could she not? Liberation movements don't happen overnight!" I was frustrated that she stayed but I was also glad that she didn't just say "lol bye." Not following through, not owning up to her decisions and mistakes, and not making the marriage that was necessary rather than the marriage she wanted would have made her even more immature.

[Clariana]

He didn't care about Dany being able to command or not, he was just too wrapped up in his game to realise that someone might want to smash the board.

Happens in real life as well. WWII is good example, Stalin was so wrapped up in his plans he didn't realise that Hitler's next target is USSR and ignored warnings; Allies initially uderestimated Germany and Germans, for the most part, underestimated the power of Britain and USA - because in both cases, part of the power came from smashing the board and playing a new game.

... and Russia when the chips were down. Britain and America would have had it tough without the red army.

But this is OT.